Blacksmith - crafting profession suggestion

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NSKaneda
Posts: 968

Blacksmith - crafting profession suggestion

Post#1 » Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:52 pm

In the recent Q&A we've been shown UI for blacksmithing profession:
Spoiler:
Image
(sshot, Loremaster of Sotek for added theorycrafting bonus)

I've started pondering upon how it could work and be implemented into the game without any major changes... Main issue I see is that it utilises one ingredient (B) to operate on an item (A). Still, the UI tells us few things:

1. crit chance is influenced by
a. profession level
b. item level
c. ingredient crit modifier

2. you can upgrade upon existing in-game items

3. it requires gathering skill to operate

Let's start from the easiest element: gathering skill. I think salvaging is an obvious choice here. Modifying it to extract stat talisman fragments, magical essence AND weapon modifiers (+AP, +HP, + *power, +haste etc) should suffice. We could in theory complicate it further with either tali makers or cultivators crafting special ingredient to make it work to increase crafting crit chance (and possibly making +crafting power pots work in game again) or make it Crossout style upgrade system: add item, add modifier, get one of three pre-determined upgrades - this would make balancing easier and would provide more order and predictability in otherwise chaotic database.


ad 2. Making modified items boe would boost supply and demand, create new goldsinks and provide crafters with means to prosper in new economy. It would also allow non-blacksmith players to benefit from new profession. Upgrading an item should change it's rarity tier, going from white -> green -> blue -> purple -> orange. However I think orange items should have ridiculously low chance of upgrade success if any at all - end game items should remain BiS or close 2nd. Gear sets shouldn't be upgradeable at all to retain some form of control over balance but perhaps new sets can be created using purple items from PQ bags and maybe even inf rewards?.
Last but not least: which items should be upgradeable? Armour, weapons, jewels.

Pocket items (BL tome) should require whole other profession (enchanter maybe? Tied with butchering?)


ad 1. To upgrade an item one must meet required crit chance criteria - let's say 100%. Going over it can result in crit success - item will get higher rarity tier, new item level, new properties and new name. Critical failure destroys modifier as well as the item. High risk, high reward profession.

Critical chance is is influenced by
a. profession level - self explanatory, every other profession works this way.

b. item level - same as magical salvaging, each item level tier is -crit chance modifier.

c. ingredient crit modifier - this adds or subtracts from overall crit chance depending on modifier upgrade stats. This opens up a way to balance it while preventing OP combinations. For example adding +crit modifier to an item with already existing +crit should have circa 30% chance of success and 70% chance of loosing an item. Adding +crit to a purple end game T4 item with existing crit should have 5% chance of success - almost impossible to craft but chances can be improved with +crafting power potions. Still relatively low chance of success (50:50 at best... More like 35%) since new item would be very powerful.

-
-

There are other ways of toying with Blacksmithing profession in terms of modifier acquisition:

- dungeon drop (also obtainable via ranked) akin to sentinel ring talismans

- time-restricted +stat items same as those event items we get from weekend events. Tiered as
white: 7days
green: 7 days, better stats
blue: 30 days, stats, +crit
purple: 30 days, stats, +crit, +AP or +HP
orange: 90 days, stats, +crit, +AP or +HP, +*power (reward for golden league in ranked maybe? ;) )

- upgrade modifiers sold by emblem, medallion and coin merchants which allows for tiered item control, three styles of items to compliment three spec trees and a gold sink for those currencies.


I'm sure there are other and better ways of doing it - I just want to see blacksmithing in game ever since it was hinted on official forums years ago :)
RoR: Burszui SH, Ropopuch SHM<|[]|>Ginnar IB, Vidarr HMR, Runatyr RP ++ REV guild ++
Live: Karak Izor -> Karak Norn - Yarpaen IB, Ginnarr SL, Volundr ENG +Ithilmar's Chosen+
* * * playing 19 classes - running out of char slots * * *

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space44
Posts: 480

Re: Blacksmith - crafting profession suggestion

Post#2 » Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:19 pm

you can tell blacksmithing had a gathering skill somewhere in the to do list from the original devs because in the dwarf/greenskins pairing and more prominent in TM theres a bunch of metal nodes scattered about
Image
Chosen: Roten Plaguelord rr86 | Knight of the Blazing Sun: Lyntyz Jesterknight rr63

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Whyumadbro
Posts: 485

Re: Blacksmith - crafting profession suggestion

Post#3 » Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:26 pm

thats a very interesting idea! i agree that sets should not be able to be modifed on und this would give non set armour a way to shine. RN i have the feeling that all items i get are just junk while leveling because i will have a set sooner or later.

The Blacksmithing could also create new items like a new better sword made out of 3 pieces that you have to find, so to speek to sacrifice 3 items for the low chance of a better one. I think adding this profession would icnrease the economy game of RoR and provide some new diviersity to the game.

Maybe one set for each class can be craftable, like beastlord tier good

User avatar
space44
Posts: 480

Re: Blacksmith - crafting profession suggestion

Post#4 » Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:40 pm

NSKaneda wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:52 pm
Spoiler:
In the recent Q&A we've been shown UI for blacksmithing profession:
Spoiler:
Image
(sshot, Loremaster of Sotek for added theorycrafting bonus)

I've started pondering upon how it could work and be implemented into the game without any major changes... Main issue I see is that it utilises one ingredient (B) to operate on an item (A). Still, the UI tells us few things:

1. crit chance is influenced by
a. profession level
b. item level
c. ingredient crit modifier

2. you can upgrade upon existing in-game items

3. it requires gathering skill to operate

Let's start from the easiest element: gathering skill. I think salvaging is an obvious choice here. Modifying it to extract stat talisman fragments, magical essence AND weapon modifiers (+AP, +HP, + *power, +haste etc) should suffice. We could in theory complicate it further with either tali makers or cultivators crafting special ingredient to make it work to increase crafting crit chance (and possibly making +crafting power pots work in game again) or make it Crossout style upgrade system: add item, add modifier, get one of three pre-determined upgrades - this would make balancing easier and would provide more order and predictability in otherwise chaotic database.


ad 2. Making modified items boe would boost supply and demand, create new goldsinks and provide crafters with means to prosper in new economy. It would also allow non-blacksmith players to benefit from new profession. Upgrading an item should change it's rarity tier, going from white -> green -> blue -> purple -> orange. However I think orange items should have ridiculously low chance of upgrade success if any at all - end game items should remain BiS or close 2nd. Gear sets shouldn't be upgradeable at all to retain some form of control over balance but perhaps new sets can be created using purple items from PQ bags and maybe even inf rewards?.
Last but not least: which items should be upgradeable? Armour, weapons, jewels.

Pocket items (BL tome) should require whole other profession (enchanter maybe? Tied with butchering?)


ad 1. To upgrade an item one must meet required crit chance criteria - let's say 100%. Going over it can result in crit success - item will get higher rarity tier, new item level, new properties and new name. Critical failure destroys modifier as well as the item. High risk, high reward profession.

Critical chance is is influenced by
a. profession level - self explanatory, every other profession works this way.

b. item level - same as magical salvaging, each item level tier is -crit chance modifier.

c. ingredient crit modifier - this adds or subtracts from overall crit chance depending on modifier upgrade stats. This opens up a way to balance it while preventing OP combinations. For example adding +crit modifier to an item with already existing +crit should have circa 30% chance of success and 70% chance of loosing an item. Adding +crit to a purple end game T4 item with existing crit should have 5% chance of success - almost impossible to craft but chances can be improved with +crafting power potions. Still relatively low chance of success (50:50 at best... More like 35%) since new item would be very powerful.

-
-

There are other ways of toying with Blacksmithing profession in terms of modifier acquisition:

- dungeon drop (also obtainable via ranked) akin to sentinel ring talismans

- time-restricted +stat items same as those event items we get from weekend events. Tiered as
white: 7days
green: 7 days, better stats
blue: 30 days, stats, +crit
purple: 30 days, stats, +crit, +AP or +HP
orange: 90 days, stats, +crit, +AP or +HP, +*power (reward for golden league in ranked maybe? ;) )

- upgrade modifiers sold by emblem, medallion and coin merchants which allows for tiered item control, three styles of items to compliment three spec trees and a gold sink for those currencies.


I'm sure there are other and better ways of doing it - I just want to see blacksmithing in game ever since it was hinted on official forums years ago :)
instead of having limited amount of days for the blacksmithing item just remove all the miscellaneous armor those vendors sell and have the trade skill craft actual permanent armor and jewels.
White (common crafting mats): very below average stats
Green (uncommon crafting mats): below average stats
Blue (rare crafting mats): average stats
Purple (very rare crafting mats): average/above average stats
Orange ( legendary crafting mats): can be compared to Invader armor or Sov armor

legendary crafting mats are placed in unconventional areas of the map and has very long and unpredictable respawn timers that can vary. the legendary mats can be lore friendly like Gromril that will only be found in dwarf/greenskin, Ithilmar which will only be found in Helf/Delf, and Sigmarite which will only be found in empire/chaos. maybe for destro theres a corrupted version for example for chaos they can have deamon blessed steel.
Last edited by space44 on Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Chosen: Roten Plaguelord rr86 | Knight of the Blazing Sun: Lyntyz Jesterknight rr63

I'm not a clown, I'm the whole circus.

User avatar
NSKaneda
Posts: 968

Re: Blacksmith - crafting profession suggestion

Post#5 » Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:43 pm

space44 wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:19 pm you can tell blacksmithing had a gathering skill somewhere in the to do list from the original devs because in the dwarf/greenskins pairing and more prominent in TM theres a bunch of metal nodes scattered about
Spoiler:
Image

I have this vague recollection that those might've been in game since beta days just like those plants you can find in pve - for a brief moment after launch you could've picked up that flora for dye ingredients and cultivation seeds... But I might be wrong and those nodes were added the same time blacksmiths appeared in the cities.

Still, blacksmithing would have miner + salvager? Or just miner to get ore which would have to come in rarity tiers as well as 1-200 levels to start... Hmmm, some kind of forge to refine ore into stat modifier? And forge could use talisman making UI to craft blacksmithing upgrade modifiers while utilising both gathering professions like other crafting ones do...

Would miner give access to metal ores alone or will there be gems as well? How would you combine both to get just 1 upgrade item (maybe called "kit")? So many questions ;)


space44 wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:40 pm instead of having limited amount of days for the blacksmithing item just remove all the miscellaneous armor those vendors sell and have the trade skill craft actual armor and jewels.
White (common crafting mats): very below average stats
Green (uncommon crafting mats): below average stats
Blue (rare crafting mats): average stats
Purple (very rare crafting mats): average/above average stats
Orange ( legendary crafting mats): can be compared to Invader armor or Sov armor

legendary crafting mats are placed in unconventional areas of the map and has very long and unpredictable respawn timers that can vary. the legendary mats can be lore friendly like Gromril that will only be found in dwarf/greenskin, Ithilmar which will only be found in Helf/Delf, and Sigmarite which will only be found in empire/chaos. maybe for destro theres a corrupted version for example for chaos they can have deamon blessed steel.

I'd have it permanent rather than time-limited, that's why I listed it as alternatives for fast implementation ;)
I like gathering expedition trips (tie it with lair bosses and dungeons for added bonus) - however Warhammer professions are "on the go" style and I believe they're meant to be used both in pvp and pve (bring back scavenging dead players ;) ).

As for crafted gear tiers, how about this:
white - same (+tali slot on white item?)
Green - one above average stat, rest below
blue - two above average stats + resists
purple - above average stats, resists, +utility
orange - same

?


-
-

ANOTHER way of dealing with Blacksmithing would be for it to simply add talisman slot to existing item (to a max of 4 tali slots on 2h/staff and 2 per 1h item). Just an idea ;)
RoR: Burszui SH, Ropopuch SHM<|[]|>Ginnar IB, Vidarr HMR, Runatyr RP ++ REV guild ++
Live: Karak Izor -> Karak Norn - Yarpaen IB, Ginnarr SL, Volundr ENG +Ithilmar's Chosen+
* * * playing 19 classes - running out of char slots * * *

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Jildaz
Posts: 163

Re: Blacksmith - crafting profession suggestion

Post#6 » Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:21 pm

If you want to grind craft/ trade Skill and all those boring stuff, go play a korean game and leave Ror out of this thing plz.
Its a terrible idea, even worse than forcing Pve gearing to get BiS.
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Gwelt : BG 81

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NSKaneda
Posts: 968

Re: Blacksmith - crafting profession suggestion

Post#7 » Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:50 pm

Jildaz wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:21 pm If you want to grind craft/ trade Skill and all those boring stuff, go play a korean game and leave Ror out of this thing plz.
Its a terrible idea, even worse than forcing Pve gearing to get BiS.

I hear you. How would you combine new crafting profession refinement acquisition with pvp (it would have to be on-the-go one like salvaging and cultivation)?
RoR: Burszui SH, Ropopuch SHM<|[]|>Ginnar IB, Vidarr HMR, Runatyr RP ++ REV guild ++
Live: Karak Izor -> Karak Norn - Yarpaen IB, Ginnarr SL, Volundr ENG +Ithilmar's Chosen+
* * * playing 19 classes - running out of char slots * * *

User avatar
space44
Posts: 480

Re: Blacksmith - crafting profession suggestion

Post#8 » Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:39 pm

Jildaz wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:21 pm If you want to grind craft/ trade Skill and all those boring stuff, go play a korean game and leave Ror out of this thing plz.
Its a terrible idea, even worse than forcing Pve gearing to get BiS.
what is it with people comparing grind to korean games, every MMORPG has a grind. everyone who compares grind and anything they disagree with to a korean game is stereotypical racism. heres a list of non korean games that has a grind in them. adding grind to WaR wont bring it to the same level of a korean game like Black Desert.

RuneScape(USA)
ESO (USA)
FFO XIV(Japan)
EVE Online(Iceland)
Neverwinter Online (Cryptic Studios, USA)

i can go on but its getting off topic. the point is people comparing grind or anything they dont agree with to korean games is blatant racism when they cant find a more logical counter argument for something they disagree with.
Chosen: Roten Plaguelord rr86 | Knight of the Blazing Sun: Lyntyz Jesterknight rr63

I'm not a clown, I'm the whole circus.

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nailinthehead
Posts: 84

Re: Blacksmith - crafting profession suggestion

Post#9 » Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:35 am

Personally, if blacksmithing was implemented, I'd keep it simple and limit it to 3 core modifications:
- adding a talisman slot to the gear
- mixing up gear stats while keeping the summary value intact
- adding a bonus effect to the gear

aaaand maybe just one more - changing the type of gear without changing anything else (like ie. reforge an axe into the hammer).

Each of those possibilities would require different materials. Quality of materials would just increase the chance for success. Besides mining(?), salvaging is a natural gathering skill that would be required I think.

It'd certinly add some value to the gold and make the materials rotation going.

jughurta69
Posts: 113

Re: Blacksmith - crafting profession suggestion

Post#10 » Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:18 am

small modification points in a maximum of 5 pts per armor piece

example

20 str
18 wound
12 ini
Can change
22 str
14 wound
14 ini


too much would make the game impossible to balance too too many parameters

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