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6 simple changes to bring Shadow Warrior closer to SH

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titaniummushroom
Posts: 37

Re: 6 simple changes to bring Shadow Warrior closer to SH

Post#31 » Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:42 am

how about we don't try to make anything closer to SH and focus on making SH closer to everything else instead of the near god mode class that it currently is.

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Jinxypie
Posts: 320

Re: 6 simple changes to bring Shadow Warrior closer to SH

Post#32 » Sat Mar 06, 2021 12:14 pm

titaniummushroom wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:42 am
how about we don't try to make anything closer to SH and focus on making SH closer to everything else instead of the near god mode class that it currently is.
Maybe you will realize at some point there's no trispec with 8tactic slots and all Squigs out at the same time for SH.
DoK RR80+, Chosen RR80+, Choppa RR70+, SH RR75+ WP RR65+

Sponn
Suspended
Posts: 200

Re: 6 simple changes to bring Shadow Warrior closer to SH

Post#33 » Sat Mar 06, 2021 6:27 pm

vindicuss wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:36 pm
SW is already too strong on both melee and ranged specs.
This **** was hilarious, thanks for the genuine laugh LOL



This is just as funny as people saying WH is **** awesome now because of an armor debuff. Ahh yess look at all the top end guilds clambering over one another to put WH's in their warbands lol.

It is super funny listening to destro mains complain about WH and SW but when they come over to Order they dont even have WHs or SWs in their warbands LMAO. Oh lawd. Literally nobody is clambering over themselves to get these classes in a wb, not even the destro guild mains who play order sometimes to.

nonfactor
Posts: 50

Re: 6 simple changes to bring Shadow Warrior closer to SH

Post#34 » Sat Mar 06, 2021 7:47 pm

Sponn wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 6:27 pm
vindicuss wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:36 pm
SW is already too strong on both melee and ranged specs.
This **** was hilarious, thanks for the genuine laugh LOL



This is just as funny as people saying WH is **** awesome now because of an armor debuff. Ahh yess look at all the top end guilds clambering over one another to put WH's in their warbands lol.

It is super funny listening to destro mains complain about WH and SW but when they come over to Order they dont even have WHs or SWs in their warbands LMAO. Oh lawd. Literally nobody is clambering over themselves to get these classes in a wb, not even the destro guild mains who play order sometimes to.
there are no ranged shs in those either, what is your point?

titaniummushroom
Posts: 37

Re: 6 simple changes to bring Shadow Warrior closer to SH

Post#35 » Sun Mar 07, 2021 1:13 am

nonfactor wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 7:47 pm
Sponn wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 6:27 pm
vindicuss wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:36 pm
SW is already too strong on both melee and ranged specs.
This **** was hilarious, thanks for the genuine laugh LOL



This is just as funny as people saying WH is **** awesome now because of an armor debuff. Ahh yess look at all the top end guilds clambering over one another to put WH's in their warbands lol.

It is super funny listening to destro mains complain about WH and SW but when they come over to Order they dont even have WHs or SWs in their warbands LMAO. Oh lawd. Literally nobody is clambering over themselves to get these classes in a wb, not even the destro guild mains who play order sometimes to.
there are no ranged shs in those either, what is your point?
but there boatloads of mSH in warbands and every 6 man or smallman runs with an rSH and/or an mSH sooooooo..... what's your point?

Neverever
Posts: 181

Re: 6 simple changes to bring Shadow Warrior closer to SH

Post#36 » Sun Mar 07, 2021 9:39 am

mryay wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 8:39 am
Neverever wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:35 am
Spoiler:
mryay wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:03 pm
1. "Fell The Weak" -> remove the restriction on Scout stance. This is by far the best move as it enables immediately the finisher for Skirmish and Assault. Then switch Fell the Weak to 9 in the Scout Tree and Festering Arrow to 13 like for SH (well thought by the balance team)

2. Adjust the range buff given by the Scout stance to 15 feet (like Gas Squig) instead of 10% range

3. Mirror Sharpen Arrears - This is self-explanatory 25% Armor pen on all ranged attacks like the SH. It can replace "Powerful Draw" (Skirmish Tree) as "Powerful Draw" is obviously underperforming compared to with "Sharpen Arrers" and "Shootin' Wif Da Wind"

4. Mirror and Adapt "Extra Toxic Coating" to Enchanted Arrow: keep the 10s lingering poison. Because the "ignore defense" part does not work on Flame Arrow and it is irrelevant since it is on Skirmish tree since last yer -> move the "bypass all victim's resistance" part to "Glass Arrow".

5. Mirror "Lots of Shootin'" to replace "Rain of Steel": Instant 2400 damage like SH

6. Steady Aim: Replace by "+25 feet" instead of "25% critical chances" for 1s increase (rationale: tested/tested and retested on the battlefield/dummies with Tortal DPS --> it is a nerf as the DPS lowers, no burst, and it is currently unplayable both in range and melee, especially in melee).

/discuss
SW is already performing well and even better than SH in some aspects. The points you have suggested sound more like your personal fantasy. For instance, you ask "extra toxic coating" mirrored to an ability which is already performing way better than the SH version.. what you suggested as a balance proposal would make a well performing class a brokenly overpowered one. With all that said, I don't think devs have any intention of playing with SW's current situation anyway
I don't see facts or proposals in your comments, just a point of view.

I'll answer your single point on "extra toxic coating": like above, it is interesting that you say it would "make a well-performing class a brokenly overpowered one" -> because "extra toxic coating" is already an SH bonus. So SH isn't broken but SW would be? It doesn't make any sense.
The difference between Festering Arrow + tactics VS Poison Arrer + tactics would be the only one on the mechanic linked to Vengeance of Nagarythe that turns the FA unavoidable during active VoN. This is considering that base skill values are higher on SW (no pet obviously).
Still if you can prove it would turn the class "unbalanced", I am open to some constructive arguments. For example, if the devs remove the restriction on "Flanking Shot" as it has been suggested in this thread, then this addition on FA is unecessary.

The lists I put on the table are intrinsic to the SW gameplay (stance restriction, VoN, bonus/malus), mainly Scout, which can be easily compared to SH's path of BS since it is a single target tree and alternative specs (where Scout/BS is main) have similar advantages/impediments.
I play both SW and SH. And I claim that SH is noticeably performing better.
If your claim is that SH Big Shooting tree is performing better than SW Scout tree then I don't think we have anything to discuss here. Fastering arrow is undefendable with VON and crits 3k+ while SH Poison arrow is defendable and it's base dmg and max damage you reach is a joke compared to FA (you consider yourself lucky if your PA reaches 2K crit.). Even with the ETC the Poison arrer and big shooting three as a whole is a joke compared to SW
FA and Scout tree. And yet you are asking to mirror ETC to FA ? I mean where is the balance in all that? Sounds more like a personal fantasy to me. And yes PA with ETC is not even performing well on SH but having it given to SW would make SW overperform since its scout tree and FA performing quite well already as it is. Apart from that, SW performs better than SH in certain ways. For, instance how about mirroring %15 def stat increase on pounce which SW is able to combine with its scout and skirmish trees to SH ? There are many more points like that. So your points are not about balance but is about asking all the good points you like on one class to be mirrored on your favourite class. So it is a personal fantasy.

nonfactor
Posts: 50

Re: 6 simple changes to bring Shadow Warrior closer to SH

Post#37 » Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:25 pm

titaniummushroom wrote:
Sun Mar 07, 2021 1:13 am
but there boatloads of mSH in warbands and every 6 man or smallman runs with an rSH and/or an mSH sooooooo..... what's your point?
naturally we are not talking about mshs and I have not seen a single 6man with sh for two weeks, mind taking a screenshot if u see one and post here?

Neverever
Posts: 181

Re: 6 simple changes to bring Shadow Warrior closer to SH

Post#38 » Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:46 pm

nonfactor wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:25 pm
titaniummushroom wrote:
Sun Mar 07, 2021 1:13 am
but there boatloads of mSH in warbands and every 6 man or smallman runs with an rSH and/or an mSH sooooooo..... what's your point?
naturally we are not talking about mshs and I have not seen a single 6man with sh for two weeks, mind taking a screenshot if u see one and post here?
Only SHs I see in a group is Jurki who runs with two zealots usually to farm pugs or Teefz who usually groups up with 2 healers and Theoddone. They are both ranged and I think they are both not happy about the changes on RSH. Only MSH I see around in a group is Broccoli and he runs WBs and it is not a secret MSH performs well in WB environment despite its lower dmg output compared to choppa and mara. So if there is a 6 man party including a SH I would love to know that as well.

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wachlarz
Posts: 580

Re: 6 simple changes to bring Shadow Warrior closer to SH

Post#39 » Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:56 pm

yoluigi wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:27 pm
Right now SH are way to op they need a nerf to dmg and everybody know's it. Cant have the best mobility in the game and beat sorc, magus in dps...
Spam pandemonium and U WILL make 3x dmg as rshy. Rshy have ONE 20 sec aoe skill. So If U make less dmg. Then foult is on yours side

mickeye
Posts: 223

Re: 6 simple changes to bring Shadow Warrior closer to SH

Post#40 » Mon Mar 08, 2021 1:18 pm

Suuure, and how about Broadhead arrow change to 65ft?
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