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6 simple changes to bring Shadow Warrior closer to SH

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mryay
Posts: 71

6 simple changes to bring Shadow Warrior closer to SH

Post#1 » Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:03 pm

1. "Fell The Weak" -> remove the restriction on Scout stance. This is by far the best move as it enables immediately the finisher for Skirmish and Assault. Then switch Fell the Weak to 9 in the Scout Tree and Festering Arrow to 13 like for SH (well thought by the balance team)

2. Adjust the range buff given by the Scout stance to 15 feet (like Gas Squig) instead of 10% range

3. Mirror Sharpen Arrears - This is self-explanatory 25% Armor pen on all ranged attacks like the SH. It can replace "Powerful Draw" (Skirmish Tree) as "Powerful Draw" is obviously underperforming compared to with "Sharpen Arrers" and "Shootin' Wif Da Wind"

4. Mirror and Adapt "Extra Toxic Coating" to Enchanted Arrow: keep the 10s lingering poison. Because the "ignore defense" part does not work on Flame Arrow and it is irrelevant since it is on Skirmish tree since last yer -> move the "bypass all victim's resistance" part to "Glass Arrow".

5. Mirror "Lots of Shootin'" to replace "Rain of Steel": Instant 2400 damage like SH

6. Steady Aim: Replace by "+25 feet" instead of "25% critical chances" for 1s increase (rationale: tested/tested and retested on the battlefield/dummies with Tortal DPS --> it is a nerf as the DPS lowers, no burst, and it is currently unplayable both in range and melee, especially in melee).


/discuss
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RoR: SW 82, AM Heal RR51
AoR: SW R87, BW/R60+, SM/40+, AM/R50+, WL/R60+, Slayer R40+, DoK/SH/Sorcerer R40+ (+others)

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SOcial
Posts: 89

Re: 6 simple changes to bring Shadow Warrior closer to SH

Post#2 » Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:14 pm

Gonna take it point by point as i feel its interesting :

1. yes totaly agree with that change, could potentialy backfire with an even more stupid burst on assault and a rkd, though must mention the opportunity cost of loosing the Hdbf wich is a big nono most of the time. so interesting but would require some tasting and fine tuning.

2. straight up yes, the difference make no sense.

3. straight up yes, i dont even understand how can both those tactic co exist and not highlight a big problem of balance.

4.What you propose is actually a nerf the bypass resist + undefandable is basicaly what make fester arrow good-ish, maybe i missunderstood what you meant with your change though

5. no 2.4k moral drop have to go, right now the opportunity cost of loosing the M4 in ASW is so huge that i'd rather play with less HP and keep warlord 6p to have it. (this is just an exemple to highlight how broken those m3/m4 are, ie like canonsmash from inge)

6. steady aim is usseles no argument there, giving more range is not a good idea though since it would enable good player to be untouchable with no chance of counterplay, honestly no idea what to do with that skill if i'm being honest

Thanks for the interesting proposition ! (its only my point of view i wont pretendi'm a pro SW, i do think i'm fairly knowllegable on the subject though)
Mostly Order these days
Drukenbrad Mara 40/71
Drunkenbill SH 40/61
Drunkenboris Ch 40/50
Drunkenlenny BG 40/52

Drunkenemi SW 40/63 (current char)
Drunkenbrian WH 40/73

And most of the Druken... character :p

M0rw47h
Suspended
Posts: 898

Re: 6 simple changes to bring Shadow Warrior closer to SH

Post#3 » Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:56 pm

mryay wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:03 pm
1. "Fell The Weak" -> remove the restriction on Scout stance. This is by far the best move as it enables immediately the finisher for Skirmish and Assault. Then switch Fell the Weak to 9 in the Scout Tree and Festering Arrow to 13 like for SH (well thought by the balance team)

2. Adjust the range buff given by the Scout stance to 15 feet (like Gas Squig) instead of 10% range

3. Mirror Sharpen Arrears - This is self-explanatory 25% Armor pen on all ranged attacks like the SH. It can replace "Powerful Draw" (Skirmish Tree) as "Powerful Draw" is obviously underperforming compared to with "Sharpen Arrers" and "Shootin' Wif Da Wind"

4. Mirror and Adapt "Extra Toxic Coating" to Enchanted Arrow: keep the 10s lingering poison. Because the "ignore defense" part does not work on Flame Arrow and it is irrelevant since it is on Skirmish tree since last yer -> move the "bypass all victim's resistance" part to "Glass Arrow".

5. Mirror "Lots of Shootin'" to replace "Rain of Steel": Instant 2400 damage like SH

6. Steady Aim: Replace by "+25 feet" instead of "25% critical chances" for 1s increase (rationale: tested/tested and retested on the battlefield/dummies with Tortal DPS --> it is a nerf as the DPS lowers, no burst, and it is currently unplayable both in range and melee, especially in melee).

/discuss
1. I'd rather have option to use Flanking Shot in any stance or "Skirmish or Scout".

2. SW skills got longer range by themsleves. rSW has 110 ft range of KD while using Scout vs 80 ft in case of rSH while using Gas Squig.

3. It's because it's tied to AoE mastery path. Sharpened Arrers ain't working with mSH, which is SH fake AoE mastery path.

4. I'd like mirror of ETC to EA.

5. PA in skirmish is rSW AoE M4. If anything I'd rather see ST nuke there and maybe not as M4.

6. It's not dps NERF. You use only on abilities that have no cast time, where you would've to wait for GCD, as GCD is longer than 1s anyway. So, Barrage spam with WW or applying dots.

Overall?
Spoiler:
Image

emiliorv
Posts: 1169

Re: 6 simple changes to bring Shadow Warrior closer to SH

Post#4 » Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:00 pm

Much better:
1- Mirror the RKD nerf to SW and drop it from 3sec => 2 sec

end

M0rw47h
Suspended
Posts: 898

Re: 6 simple changes to bring Shadow Warrior closer to SH

Post#5 » Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:09 pm

emiliorv wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:00 pm
Much better:
1- Mirror the RKD nerf to SW and drop it from 3sec => 2 sec

end
If it would also build on move, I'd consider that a buff ;)

emiliorv
Posts: 1169

Re: 6 simple changes to bring Shadow Warrior closer to SH

Post#6 » Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:13 pm

M0rw47h wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:09 pm
emiliorv wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:00 pm
Much better:
1- Mirror the RKD nerf to SW and drop it from 3sec => 2 sec

end
If it would also build on move, I'd consider that a buff ;)
why?
Ok, build on the move => Then reduce the range from 100ft to 65, and also remove the init debuff. => better now?

M0rw47h
Suspended
Posts: 898

Re: 6 simple changes to bring Shadow Warrior closer to SH

Post#7 » Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:23 pm

emiliorv wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:13 pm
M0rw47h wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:09 pm
emiliorv wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:00 pm
Much better:
1- Mirror the RKD nerf to SW and drop it from 3sec => 2 sec

end
If it would also build on move, I'd consider that a buff ;)
why?
Ok, build on the move => Then reduce the range from 100ft to 65, and also remove the init debuff. => better now?
Rather like "move" ini debuff on something else? As rSH has ini debuff on Yer Bleeding, which is "mirror" of BHA.
With range reduced on rKD, I'd probably ask about mirroring Run Away! ability and then I would enjoy all those "SW OP" threads as generaly SW has longer range due to lower mobility.

emiliorv
Posts: 1169

Re: 6 simple changes to bring Shadow Warrior closer to SH

Post#8 » Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:29 pm

M0rw47h wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:23 pm
Spoiler:
emiliorv wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:13 pm
M0rw47h wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:09 pm


If it would also build on move, I'd consider that a buff ;)
why?
Ok, build on the move => Then reduce the range from 100ft to 65, and also remove the init debuff. => better now?
Rather like "move" ini debuff on something else? As rSH has ini debuff on Yer Bleeding, which is "mirror" of BHA.
With range reduced on rKD, I'd probably ask about mirroring Run Away! ability and then I would enjoy all those "SW OP" threads as generaly SW has longer range due to lower mobility.
fair about the init debuff (moved to a ST ability)
Run away! is a racial tactic from Gobbos and its nothing related between classes/mirrors

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M0rw47h
Suspended
Posts: 898

Re: 6 simple changes to bring Shadow Warrior closer to SH

Post#9 » Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:35 pm

emiliorv wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:29 pm
Run away! is a racial tactic from Gobbos and its nothing related between classes/mirrors
No, not really.
Image

User avatar
mryay
Posts: 71

Re: 6 simple changes to bring Shadow Warrior closer to SH

Post#10 » Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:56 pm

Thanks for the constructive feedbacks.
SOcial wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:14 pm
Gonna take it point by point as i feel its interesting :
4.What you propose is actually a nerf the bypass resist + undefandable is basicaly what make fester arrow good-ish, maybe i missunderstood what you meant with your change though
It's me, I was not complete in my explanation. To make it clear:
Enchanted Arrow:
- Festering Arrow and Glass Arrow will now bypass all your victim resistance
- Festering Arrow applies a lingering poison that takes effect when the enemy health drop under 25%
- If you are Vengeful, then the attack is undefendable

The rationale for having Vengeful part is that Vengeful is a core part of SW mechanic, which only apply during a limited window.
SOcial wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:14 pm
5. no 2.4k moral drop have to go, right now the opportunity cost of loosing the M4 in ASW is so huge that i'd rather play with less HP and keep warlord 6p to have it. (this is just an exemple to highlight how broken those m3/m4 are, ie like canonsmash from inge)
If 2.4k moral drop goes for the sake of the overall RVR balance (especially in For), then I agree it has to go. Otherwise I disagree, and SW must get it. First because it is an imbalance, second because there is already a redundancy with Hail of Doom.
No matter what I disagree to remove it from the aSW, there are too many risks to not trigger the M4 it while being in melee.
SOcial wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:14 pm
6. steady aim is usseles no argument there, giving more range is not a good idea though since it would enable good player to be untouchable with no chance of counterplay, honestly no idea what to do with that skill if i'm being honest
I have made several suggestions for Steady Aim here viewtopic.php?f=95&t=39842. Still, the one that makes more sense in the game design is the range increase (even though I would prefer a group utility). There several reasons for this, and mainly is for what Scout represents. Scout is the long-range tree, where the aim is to give you the initiatives on your opponents. But the initiative is not meant to be permanent like the long-range increase of Engi and Magus. Furthermore, the drawback of this initiative is to be static while you aim. However, other ranged classes has evolved so much that Scout does not fill this role anymore. BUT! Yeah so many options for this skill, I am open to anything but what it is right now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RoR: SW 82, AM Heal RR51
AoR: SW R87, BW/R60+, SM/40+, AM/R50+, WL/R60+, Slayer R40+, DoK/SH/Sorcerer R40+ (+others)

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