The "free immunity" problem

[Starx]

1 and immunity is also not the norm for MMOs typically they either provide diminishing returns till immunity in 3-5 successive CCs
or its somewhere around 3 to get immunity.

Mag

can u name some of the mmo's u talking about ?

WoW has diminishing returns

Looking at other RvR games like GW2, DAOC, ESO etc... they all have either short ~9 second? immunity timers and/or diminishing returns, with a purge like ability like from daoc that everyone has or will spec for if serious about pvp to remove CC effects as an active skill. 30+ second and only 2 types of immunities is above and beyond any other game comparable to this.

Healers are already losing their minds after the armor talisman nerds imagine what they would do when they would have to actually worry about CC more than once a minute.

[Sponn]

Not my first time playing this game and I laugh at your sense of propriety. There is 25+ years of MMO history and this game has a brief 5 year retail stint of it with an immunity system that does not fit the norm. There are some fantastic, innovation that this game brought to the market for which I am back here playing it and there are some challenges that most likely contributed to its lack of success and failing to capture enough audience. If the goal of feedback is to have a better product then you have to actually consider change instead of responding with meritless, reputative drivel.

I find it funny how you say there are 25 years of mmo history yet we have never gotten anything like RoR in those 25 years.

I can't think of any other MMO that supports 300v300 battles on the reg and balances towards it.


You don't have to be offended, but in all honesty your idea is a bad one. There is a reason you can't spam chain CCs on 40 people when there are AOE knockdowns, stuns, staggers.

Get real dude.


If you want a CC spam fest go play SWTOR. Or WoW, or any of those MMOs you listed. Cause none of them are RoR. I haven't seen any MMO balance as well as RoR when accounting for such high numbers.



We have a large influx of WoW players coming in it seems, I've seen suggestions for gearscore and now this. I would suggest you try to understand the immunity system before you go bashing it and wishing for cc's of yesteryear with WoW.


Imagine stacking Maras for aoe knockdown, then another, then another, yikes.

who said changing knockdowns? The suggestion was have 1 policy for lockouts AKA knockdowns, stuns, etc and another policy for pushes and pulls or possibly JUST pushes. If you can't effectively read and comprehend what another person writes you really shouldn't feel you have the authority or disposition required to respond.

Oh my bad you want people being chain pulled and pushed instead of chain stunned like in WoW.

Still a horrible decision. But if you like that idea just roll a SH and run "Outta My Way!" it doesn't trigger push CC immunities. Especially when one side has "get to da choppa" and mara pulls lol. I don't think it would be fun for anyone to be pulled, then pulled again, then pulled again. Especially considering you have limited defenses and depending on server lag being airborne during a punt or pull is effectively as bad as a stun, just you are moving.


The best suggestion on here so far is CC immunities tied to CC length, but I thought RoR already did that.

[Madmagnus]

1 and immunity is also not the norm for MMOs typically they either provide diminishing returns till immunity in 3-5 successive CCs
or its somewhere around 3 to get immunity.

Mag

can u name some of the mmo's u talking about ?

WoW has diminishing returns

Looking at other RvR games like GW2, DAOC, ESO etc... they all have either short ~9 second? immunity timers and/or diminishing returns, with a purge like ability like from daoc that everyone has or will spec for if serious about pvp to remove CC effects as an active skill. 30+ second and only 2 types of immunities is above and beyond any other game comparable to this.

Healers are already losing their minds after the armor talisman nerds imagine what they would do when they would have to actually worry about CC more than once a minute.

Why would healer be worried about being punted more often? it doesn't lock you out from healing which is why the suggestion is to separate pushes and maybe pulls from lockouts like knockdowns, stuns and disorients. I play a healer and I get punted to safety more often than punted to danger. If I let someone get position to punt me to danger then I am to blame as they had to literally run beyond my position to do so.

Daoc has 2 system approach for physical effects vs lockout CCs as do many of your examples
tanks have tons of mitigation to push abilities (more than most other examples) which is why a 1 and immunity system for pushes leads to stagnant fights. both sides taking more knockbacks would make these fights a lot more interesting and dynamic

[nebelwerfer]

The best suggestion on here so far is CC immunities tied to CC length, but I thought RoR already did that.

They do somewhat, like 4 s disarm, 5 s silence, 5 s knockdown have 40 second immunity so this isn't something entirely crazy idea, i would like to discuss doing this even more, having aoe CC on 15 / 20 second immunity(depending on distance/airtime) while single-targets are still mostly on 30s.

Aoe Mara knockdown was mentioned, it is only 2 seconds so I think it could get reduced immunity without breaking the game. Every CC would need to be reviewed and adjusted individually I think, because there are so many different ones.

As if this change would make people stop mindlessly giving free immunities. I don’t see a need to lower the skillcap even more. People *should* be punished when they make a mistake in their gameplay (in this case, not applying CC correctly) which is their target not dying/having immunity.
Secondly these changes don’t occur in a vacuum. I assume the OP plays mostly RvR and these changes would have a big effect on stuff like 6v6.

It won't stop, nothing will make it stop. That is part of the problem. And I don't see how it is reducing the skillcap? Imo the skillcap can't get much lower than right now.

Aoe CC isn't used for the most part. Maybe once per fight, and then usually for breaking channels. Resulting in makes funnels OP, it makes zerging very viable and hard to counter, positioning means less etc... Worst part of this is using aoe CC exclusivly for interrupting channels / morale drops, and getting pissed when people use it for defensive / offensive purposes.

Playing slayer, you need to wait to get immunities before you drop your retribution. CC makes or breaks fights for the WRONG reasons!!

Btw I do have experience in all aspects of this game, and I really don't see how having reduced immunity on say aoe punts is a problem in 6v6, please explain that.

I haven't seen any MMO balance as well as RoR when accounting for such high numbers.

If I were a more snarky type this would go into my signature.

[Aethilmar]

Immunities are just a hack to deal with bad game design. Why would an knockback/disarm/silence/stun work one time and not another (assuming not defended)? If there are too many of them then get rid of them or make the timers greater so you have to coordinate more to stack them up. Alternatively make a new active ability that makes a character CC immune for X seconds so it is an active counter and if you get CC-ed into oblivion it is your own fault.

And don't even get me started on why getting punted (or self-punting) off a cliff results in no damage but jumping doesn't ....

[Starx]

Immunities are just a hack to deal with bad game design. Why would an knockback/disarm/silence/stun work one time and not another (assuming not defended)? If there are too many of them then get rid of them or make the timers greater so you have to coordinate more to stack them up. Alternatively make a new active ability that makes a character CC immune for X seconds so it is an active counter and if you get CC-ed into oblivion it is your own fault.

And don't even get me started on why getting punted (or self-punting) off a cliff results in no damage but jumping doesn't ....

You need some kind of immunity timers or diminishing returns otherwise you would have to scale back CC so much it would go in the other direction of bad game design. My problem with the warhammer system is its almost all passive, it needs to be more active and give players the agency to deal with CC with things like a relatively short CD purge button, i forget what its called in this game bc who even bothers speccing for it anymore?

As for why healers would cry about it, I think its obvious that well coordinated groups would be able to lockdown healers with more than just the usual RP/Z 6 sec stagger to execute, and instead of having to worry about the enemy team executing some kind of play every minute with morales and immunity timers down it would be multiple times without morales up. If you watch any 6v6 were both teams are equal skill they will never go for healers without some major cooldowns and things lined up and instead sit in a weird neutral game where both just sit on each others dps which I found terribly boring.