[WL] We need to do something about the pet low survival

[mryay]

@space44, @Collision, and @Jinxypie Your posts are just troll posts, so if you have any true constructive feedback, feel free to elaborate.

@Parallell86 The pet doesn't hit as a 2H tank, but hit like a def tank I agree. Loner isn't the main design for the WL however sometimes it is interesting to play Loner spec (because it provided variety in terms of gameplay). Loner can only be a reference for the damage part, otherwise it is not interesting. Actually, if you ask why player play Loner it is because of the unreliable Lion A.I. (+bugs) and also Loner is more interested when you play the 3-skill AoE spec (you don't gimp your DPS when the Lion dies).

Do you play WL and SH? because when you say

"If this would be implemented I assume we could do the same with the squig pet except it really needs a damage buff in my opinion. Far weaker than the lion."

I really don't know what to think as clearly the squigs don't need buff (event the M1 squig beast needs to be adjusted).
And you cannot really compare Sh's squigs vs Lion because you have 4 different pet vs 1. "Call War Lion" is a 15s cooldown, whereas you can always resummon another squig when another dies (you can even eat them/make them explode to instant spawn).

My opinion, Gas Squig, Spike Squig have far more survival than other Lion and Horned squig and basic squig because they are melee (with respect to current RvR design and zerg don't fit well).

Again, the more I play and collect data, and the more I think the pet should not die in the current game design. Maybe the damage portion after "death" should be even lower than 40%. To be discussed. But removing a substantial amount of CC during 15s on a character is an awful design.

Just do the mental exercise. You play your melee DPS as Marauder, mSH, Slayer, Choppa, Kotbs, SM, etc. and at some random time of the fight, all your CCs and + part of your damage are gone for 15s (actually 16s because Call the War Lion is 1s cast).

[Collision]

Trolling ??
You are trolling with your "looking for easy win without lerning to play your char" post.

We are just saying to control your pet and don't take the fight in front line. Yes i know it's hard to do it in a no brain order zerg.

[Dabbart]

Question: How long SHOULD a Lion pet be capable of surviving focus damage? Saying "it's too fast" or "only survives a few seconds" doesn't give any useable information. If 2+ DPS +tanks are assisting on a pet, how long SHOULD it survive? Should it have comparable survivability to a player? By what amount? These arbitrary discussions don't accomplish anything. Give some actual information.

Pets already take less(or zero) damage from targetless AoE abilities(it's been changed a bunch, I can't remember the current state). So how much ST focus should be required to kill them? More than 2-4GcDs of DPS rotations for an assisting 6man SHOULD be able to eliminate ANY pet imo. That's a sizeable time unloading roations on a Pet that can be resummoned, scores no points, and has multiple hard CC abilities including a Pull. Oh, and your team CAN heal the Lion y'know.

I haven't played for a bit of time but in my past experience, WLs need to be more protective of their pet if they want to rely on it. Sending the pet in first, or putting it in a position where the entire enemy 6man can turn/target/nuke freely is PUG play.

For RvR or mass scale combat, the tankiest of tanks will get obliterated in a couple GcDs against a zerg. Pets and pet classes will die slightly faster, nothing wrong there. Positioning matters more than anything else as you scale up.

Edit: and if you think the Lion should NEVER die, then what CC/Damage are you willing to give up for it? An unkillable Pull bot, where the only counter would be a CC, as a pet is just blatantly OP. So, what would you trade for an unkillable or MUCH tankier pet?

Lol at unkillable Pet btw... Just sit on a Wall and send your UNKILLABLE pet in to fight for you... rofl

[Ithiel]

79 wl here. The pet should obviously die fast if focused, as it happens at the moment. The biggest issue in my opinion is the lack of options for the master to try to save it or prevent the 15 secs cd if it dies i.e there is only a very weak hot that won’t make it survive a second longer if focused, so it is not worth it in most combat situations.

I think more tools should be added to warrant a better interaction with the lion as it is the main mechanic of this class and, as it has been mentioned, it feels unfinished. I don’t play sh but I read what they can do with their pets and how this is an active part of their game play (eat them, explode them…). However, for the lion, it feels like it is a buggy bot carrying part of your dps and some of your abilities and there is not much you can do about it.

With regards to survival, a strong heal with a big cost should be added (either channelled or maybe you can give a % of your hp to replenish your pets hp) - it would go a long way in gameplay.

I also agree that forcing every wl to use speed training to be able to use the pet is too much of a punishment when the lion itself is quite buggy (has a weird pathfinding, abilities don't work if target is moving etc).

My 2 cents.

[wachlarz]

Dear Devs,

Something needs to be done with respect to the low survival of the WL's Lion.

The pet just simply dies too quickly and for a class that is pet dependant for its damage and CC (tactics, abilities, morale,...)
On one part, when it dies, the damage of the Elf is laughable, and it heavily hampers Guardian Spec.
The biggest issue is the unavailability of CC during this time.
If you add the unreliable AI (even with mod)...

So, here is a suggestion.

1. Make the Lion never die until the WL dies
2. When the Lion HP goes to near 0, stun the Lion for 2 seconds, then it goes back to the battle, but the Lion damage (not the Elf) output is lowered by 60% for 8 seconds. HP gets reset
3. Increase Lion's baseline speed by a good 25%
4. Increase the range from where the Lions damage is reduced from 40 feet to 65 feet

Benefits:
- CCs are still available all the time
- The Elf damage output is kept consistent
- The Lion never has to be summoned again except when you switch from a loner.

/discuss

First point Is EPIC.

[Sofong]

WL or pet dont need any buff they still easily alpha dps in game.

[Artighur]

What I'd suggest is not to make the pet invincible but to make it immune (or very close to it) to non-targeted spells. That leaves destro able to deal with the pet if they want to take out WL CC or dps output (if you ST the pet it will die really quickly) but allows the WL to fight in melee without the pet dying from some random choppa waving his arm around or because the pet decided that standing in the purple mist was a good idea.

WoW went that route for Beastmaster Hunters so they are usable in raid fights and I don't see why RoR wouldn't

[Evilest]

Dear Devs,

Something needs to be done with respect to the low survival of the WL's Lion.

The pet just simply dies too quickly and for a class that is pet dependant for its damage and CC (tactics, abilities, morale,...)
On one part, when it dies, the damage of the Elf is laughable, and it heavily hampers Guardian Spec.
The biggest issue is the unavailability of CC during this time.
If you add the unreliable AI (even with mod)...

So, here is a suggestion.

1. Make the Lion never die until the WL dies
2. When the Lion HP goes to near 0, stun the Lion for 2 seconds, then it goes back to the battle, but the Lion damage (not the Elf) output is lowered by 60% for 8 seconds. HP gets reset
3. Increase Lion's baseline speed by a good 25%
4. Increase the range from where the Lions damage is reduced from 40 feet to 65 feet

Benefits:
- CCs are still available all the time
- The Elf damage output is kept consistent
- The Lion never has to be summoned again except when you switch from a loner.

/discuss

First point Is EPIC.

It's a concession. Crearly lions should be immortal and keep killing until his master, who possibly logged off due not moving, returns to the realm.

[vindicuss]

There's no need to buff the survival aspect of the pet, healers just seem to not worry about it so it's a problem of L2P. If it gets killed it's because that's how Destru deals with WLs, also Order is learning to kill first the rSH pets.

[Artighur]

There's no need to buff the survival aspect of the pet, healers just seem to not worry about it so it's a problem of L2P. If it gets killed it's because that's how Destru deals with WLs, also Order is learning to kill first the rSH pets.

You do realize healers cannot see the pets on their unit frames? They have more important things to do than try to find the pet in the middle of a melee deathstar...

Also, it bears repeating that WL != SH pets. SH have 4 pets on different CD that are designed to die and be swapped easily. The Lion has a 15s CD and contains almost 100% of WL utility, it's also a melee pet with little armor, wounds, or toughness. It's alright in a 6v6 environment where the passive aoe is not so great but in anything larger, it will die by accident because it ran in front of a choppa.

I don't care that my pet dies if destro is targeting it to take my utility away, it's smart play but getting all my utility taken away from mindless, untargeted AoE is really shitty.