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U Wot

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Structured class balance suggestions belong in the Balance Proposal subforum. Class-related discussion in this section are considered as ongoing debates and ARE NOT reviewed for balance changes.
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Adell
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Re: U Wot

Post#51 » Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:13 am

Speechless...

The RoR team actually did a really good job with the Black Orc. It's Fun!!! Finally! The BO is growing in size while stronger, has a solid working 2h & snb spec. They outdid Mythic!

PS, the AM does need some love tho.
Mowgli | Femto | Megawolf | Darkseid | Skullknight | Bambi
Orz of Norn

"I could feel his muscle tissue collapse under my force. It's ludicrous these mortals even attempt to enter my realm."

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normanis
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Re: U Wot

Post#52 » Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:34 am

he was comparing abilities and u wot has no downtime because u cleanse it with juggernout. ather abilities what is op has downtime or has side effects for example vigilance down is crappy dps and u cant remove it with ather ability just slotting extra tactic.
and why u need armor and resistence in dps tree? if it was da boss tree ok ( byt he already has armor buff da greenest and tuffer n nails what is snb version.) class has 3 armor buffs?
he already has tactic what most tanks have it +5parry and +10% damage + u wot he has +20% damage just in 1 tree.
wods its same as cant hitme only 2h verssion and in warbands u need to be snb not 2h. byt u cant hitme can use in wb or in 6vs6 . alsu ys u can go 2h wods in warband play byt athers in your team need your hold the line stuff.
conclusion for ability what is very good has downtime what u can remove with juggernout its really op. i dont know ather abilities what u can remove downtime just with ather abilitie (what is core and no need spec it)
p.s only dps sm i saw what is really hiting hard is dragonfang.
"Iron Within, Iron Without!"

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normanis
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Re: U Wot

Post#53 » Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:37 am

dont mention sm abilitue aethiric armor (its give u armor and distrupt) it was removed from ingame byt black orc got u wot and sm got some **** what noone even spec (black orc also has same ****)
"Iron Within, Iron Without!"

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Adell
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Re: U Wot

Post#54 » Sat Apr 10, 2021 4:03 am

Just out of curiosity, did they nerf Wall of Darting Steel? I actually don't remember.
As I recall it was 50% parry/dodge/disrupt instantly without a cooldown. 50% parry in 2h seems pretty sweet when your guarded target is getting focused.

I remember the Black Guard had it for a short period but it was so strong that they had to remove it.
Mowgli | Femto | Megawolf | Darkseid | Skullknight | Bambi
Orz of Norn

"I could feel his muscle tissue collapse under my force. It's ludicrous these mortals even attempt to enter my realm."

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sharpblader
Posts: 298

Re: U Wot

Post#55 » Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:42 am

ScreenFofoBan wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:02 pm who care about 1v1 balance, everybody knows the game is not balanced in 1v1

That's not entirely true. Balance does happen because of solo/small scale. Abilities/specs which were less impactful or irrelevant in WB play have been tweaked. No doubt some classes stomp on others but none are left without counter-play.

forsa wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:30 pm Proposition is simple:
- remove "drawback"
- change into blessing
- cd 30 sec -> 60sec
- requires da' Best Plan / requires being below X % of HP

Or just change it into morale

While it will still be the strongest selfbuff (at least on tanks) it will have some counter-play

The biggest counter-play to BOs is kiting. They are arguably the worst tanks who can close the distance. Removing the self slow by juggernaut means being vulnerable to even more kiting. Hence, I don't think its imbalanced in anyway.

starness88
Posts: 48

Re: U Wot

Post#56 » Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:43 am

A new post about the black ork by a dude that doesn't play it.

With all your argument, you totally forget that SM doesn't face the ability called "Rampage" which totally ignore all your avoidance stats. You don't want to talk about it and ask us to create new thread ? Why the balance doesn't work with SM and BO but with Order tools against destro tools.

And this one ability (rampage) make all the difference, in orvr, in smallscale, in city, in sc, in fort, cause the most played order mdps have it.

And all the arguement that you used here are valid when talking about rampage.

ScreenFofoBan
Posts: 11

Re: U Wot

Post#57 » Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:34 am

its simple, the main skill that provide survivability for 2h BO is "u wot" and the one for 2h SM is "WoDS", obviously to see if its balanced u need to compare these skills together (u dont balance a BO skill regarding what a WP or a WL or whatever class can do otherwise it would be litteraly an endless balancing which actually never gonna be balanced, i guess u get it, u balance toward what the mirror class equivalent can do) lets take a quick look on theses skills :

U wot : 20AP 30sec CD, selfbuff for 20 sec +15% defend an ability / +30% resis - armor / +10% dmg, u snare yourself for 10sec after the 20sec selfbuff, skill in 13th position in 2h tree
WoDS : 20AP/sec No CD, channeling ability during 20 sec +50% defend an ability / deal spirit dmg back to whoever's attack u defend, melee or ranged, skill is core

the + and - by comparison :
U wot is selfbuff, no need channeling so u can have it active while still doing u rotation where the SM need to stop everything and channel his WoDS when he need to survive something urgently.
U wot in comparison is only 15% more chance to defend attack where Wods is 50%, even without the resis/armor buff provided by u wot, WoDS is most of time more reliable when it comes to surviving something, well geared SM can reach 100% parry and around 60-70% dodge disrupts easily during the channeling.
U wot grant 10% more dmg, pretty good, pretty welcomed when u see how bad dmg can be as BO on armored target (a SM for exemple ?) compared to the dmg a SM would do (thx spirit dmg) on his side SM WoDS deal spirit dmg back to anyone's attack he defends, even ranged, that actually pretty good and very dissuasive against ranged that try to pewpew u where the BO cant do much against those (throw axes ?)
U wot have a downside, it snare u after 20 sec meaning u more likely to be kited as BO since ur class mechanic itself will snare u at some point even if no enemy is actually snaring u, WoDS downside is the fact that it need to be channeled so its more AP costly, u gonna need AP pot a lot where U wot is not expensive to use
U wot need a career pts where WoDS dont

Overall, in my opinion, theses skills are balanced without being just total stupid mirror which is very nice to see, WoDS grants more reliable survivability and interesting ranged dmg but it is harder to use/manage, U wot is a bit under regarding the survivability it grant to BO but its way easier to manage, u just need to keep an eye on when the skill gonna snare u so ur not letting u be in a bad position (dont chase ranged too much or u are dead)
More generally, i think the BO/SM archetype are currently one of the least unbalanced class of all so i dont really agree with a U wot nerf or at least it would need a WoDS nerf aswell to be fair, otherwise that where the true unbalancing would begins

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normanis
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Re: U Wot

Post#58 » Sat Apr 10, 2021 1:02 pm

ScreenFofoBan wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:34 am its simple, the main skill that provide survivability for 2h BO is "u wot" and the one for 2h SM is "WoDS", obviously to see if its balanced u need to compare these skills together (u dont balance a BO skill regarding what a WP or a WL or whatever class can do otherwise it would be litteraly an endless balancing which actually never gonna be balanced, i guess u get it, u balance toward what the mirror class equivalent can do) lets take a quick look on theses skills :

U wot : 20AP 30sec CD, selfbuff for 20 sec +15% defend an ability / +30% resis - armor / +10% dmg, u snare yourself for 10sec after the 20sec selfbuff, skill in 13th position in 2h tree
WoDS : 20AP/sec No CD, channeling ability during 20 sec +50% defend an ability / deal spirit dmg back to whoever's attack u defend, melee or ranged, skill is core

the + and - by comparison :
U wot is selfbuff, no need channeling so u can have it active while still doing u rotation where the SM need to stop everything and channel his WoDS when he need to survive something urgently.
U wot in comparison is only 15% more chance to defend attack where Wods is 50%, even without the resis/armor buff provided by u wot, WoDS is most of time more reliable when it comes to surviving something, well geared SM can reach 100% parry and around 60-70% dodge disrupts easily during the channeling.
U wot grant 10% more dmg, pretty good, pretty welcomed when u see how bad dmg can be as BO on armored target (a SM for exemple ?) compared to the dmg a SM would do (thx spirit dmg) on his side SM WoDS deal spirit dmg back to anyone's attack he defends, even ranged, that actually pretty good and very dissuasive against ranged that try to pewpew u where the BO cant do much against those (throw axes ?)
U wot have a downside, it snare u after 20 sec meaning u more likely to be kited as BO since ur class mechanic itself will snare u at some point even if no enemy is actually snaring u, WoDS downside is the fact that it need to be channeled so its more AP costly, u gonna need AP pot a lot where U wot is not expensive to use
U wot need a career pts where WoDS dont

Overall, in my opinion, theses skills are balanced without being just total stupid mirror which is very nice to see, WoDS grants more reliable survivability and interesting ranged dmg but it is harder to use/manage, U wot is a bit under regarding the survivability it grant to BO but its way easier to manage, u just need to keep an eye on when the skill gonna snare u so ur not letting u be in a bad position (dont chase ranged too much or u are dead)
More generally, i think the BO/SM archetype are currently one of the least unbalanced class of all so i dont really agree with a U wot nerf or at least it would need a WoDS nerf aswell to be fair, otherwise that where the true unbalancing would begins
u forget to mention u can cleanse u wot self snare with jugernout. and y i tested it. and u can really cleanse it ingame not just on papper. (just push jusggernout after bonuss ends) also wads dont give u damage bonuss. u can use u wot in any build even snb while wods only 2h. in theory u wot>wods. spam u wot and spam hold the line . self bonuss + bonuss to athers.
and wods is actually mirror to canthitme (channel block) and u dont deal damage when wods is channeling while u put u wot and spam abilities. u whant compare lama and horses byt they are never same even some function they really can do carry paceges. byt noone ride on lama. nice try
"Iron Within, Iron Without!"

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tazdingo
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Re: U Wot

Post#59 » Sat Apr 10, 2021 1:30 pm

if ppl are that upset about it we take wods happily instead

starness88
Posts: 48

Re: U Wot

Post#60 » Sat Apr 10, 2021 1:30 pm

Hello again people.

I'm just here to quote my own message that has been ignored
starness88 wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:43 am A new post about the black ork by a dude that doesn't play it.

With all your argument, you totally forget that SM doesn't face the ability called "Rampage" which totally ignore all your avoidance stats. You don't want to talk about it and ask us to create new thread ? Why the balance doesn't work with SM and BO but with Order tools against destro tools.

And this one ability (rampage) make all the difference, in orvr, in smallscale, in city, in sc, in fort, cause the most played order mdps have it.

And all the arguement that you used here are valid when talking about rampage.
Can I add to this that there no mirror to Rampage ?

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