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U Wot

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normanis
Posts: 1304
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Re: U Wot

Post#41 » Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:26 pm

mubbl wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:14 pm
Spoiler:
forsa wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:11 pm
mubbl wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:48 am
think you forgot about sm and wall of darting steel. which is conacted why "you wot " is in the game. a former dev was the opinion, that the combination snb+ 3 hit combo was to strong, so three hitta got 2h req. to compansate, "you wot" was intreduced later.
dont see what the prob with jugger after you wot is. if you slow the bo afterwards, he cant remove the slow anymore, except he uses subcloak, which means he has a none-set-item on back slot.
No, WoDs is comparable to Can't Hit Me!. Both are channels, with no cooldown that increase defenses and deals damage on successful defense. Both can be cancelled by Taunt, SM's requires 2h and deals lower spirit damage, BO's requires shield and deals higher physical damage.

As for T'ree hit/Ether - well, BO one is much lower in skill tree, but im ok with removing U wot, and buffing T'ree hit to the ED level.
Also, in not 100% sure, but i remember ED being able to use with Snb.
80% move speed debuff is laughable on its own, but if you feel insecure, slot Unstoppable Juggernaut, to sync with U wot debuff ;)
yee, wod and cant hit me are the thingies to compare, still one is bound to snb, no real dmg possible, and one is bound to 2h as the dmg stuff of the class. takeing your argument about place in skill tree...wod is base skill, is sometimes better, since you still can disrupt/dodge enemies you dont face(right?).
indeed you could take unstoppable jugg, but you sac a tactic for a one trick pony. (it only removes slows not makes you immune)
even with tactic jugg and you wot doesnt line up with cd.
i found some images from 2008 that incline ED was also usable in snb, but someone (ror or aor devs) decided it should be bound to 2h.
im not sure what you wanted to say a few posts later with snare was moved to big brawling, but it just snares for 20%. which means following your own words is more or less worthless?

tbh 30% more armor sounds strong, but sadly there is weapon skill and also order is quite potent in armor debuffing, if you want.
in my case i find it way easier to get "magic" dmg number trought the enemy metigation, since noone cares about that.
weapon skill is nice, but not easy to get for tanks on the other hand.
following your argumentations till now, 2h knight can just take raciual bubble tactic or slot bubble m1 or unique m2, mostlikley doesnt make much sense.
but why are we/you talking about knights?
but bubbles are a nice point, cause SM has better bubbles. Same for healing stuff.
like destro has 0 armor pentration?? if u point out order has armor pentration
"Iron Within, Iron Without!"

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forsa
Posts: 139

Re: U Wot

Post#42 » Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:51 pm

mubbl wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:14 pm yee, wod and cant hit me are the thingies to compare, still one is bound to snb, no real dmg possible, and one is bound to 2h as the dmg stuff of the class. takeing your argument about place in skill tree...wod is base skill, is sometimes better, since you still can disrupt/dodge enemies you dont face(right?).
indeed you could take unstoppable jugg, but you sac a tactic for a one trick pony. (it only removes slows not makes you immune)
even with tactic jugg and you wot doesnt line up with cd.
i found some images from 2008 that incline ED was also usable in snb, but someone (ror or aor devs) decided it should be bound to 2h.
im not sure what you wanted to say a few posts later with snare was moved to big brawling, but it just snares for 20%. which means following your own words is more or less worthless?

tbh 30% more armor sounds strong, but sadly there is weapon skill and also order is quite potent in armor debuffing, if you want.
in my case i find it way easier to get "magic" dmg number trought the enemy metigation, since noone cares about that.
weapon skill is nice, but not easy to get for tanks on the other hand.
following your argumentations till now, 2h knight can just take raciual bubble tactic or slot bubble m1 or unique m2, mostlikley doesnt make much sense.
but why are we/you talking about knights?
but bubbles are a nice point, cause SM has better bubbles. Same for healing stuff.
Erm, what "dmg stuff of the class" do you mean? 100 spirit damage? Tooltip damage of CantHitMe is x1.75 higher than that of WoDS. But afaik both channels are not about damage.

Unstoppable Jaggernaut reduces its cd to 20 seconds(15 with waagh), insecure debuff kicks in after 20 seconds. Cant see why "with tactic jugg and you wot doesnt line up with cd", they fit perfectly.
I wrote that this "drawback" is laughable cause bo can remove it without any assistance. Are you trying to compare 20% snare on bork to AoE snare attached to no cd skill that can affect 24 targets, including engi, sw, am, wp, rp and other classes, who have a hard time removing it, especially if it can be instantly reapplied.

Bo has armor debuff, m1 demolsih armor, ws selfbuff, can mix warlord and beastlord set, even statsteal further increasing stat.

Following your argumentations about knight - he was nerfed:
- Vigilance (-50% inc damage, -25% damage penalty for kn, 10 sec 1 min cd , shatterable does not affect guard damage) was restricted to SnB only.
- Runefang changed into trash lvl tactic (cause it was sooooo OP in 1v1)
- m2 Empis Champion restricted you from usng any morales for 5 min, later reverted but reduced from 30 sec to 15 sec.
- Mighty soul removed from game
- party crit buff on block 10% -> 5% (always excluded kn)
- enemy inc crit debuff moved from aura to 2h only 55ap skill, that can be blocked.
- Stay focused (uniqe kn aura ) ap regen on def was removed, healing is still weaker than ch aura (reason - cause all kn use it)
- reflect cd was nerfed, deleting reflect kn builds from game (sad Second)
- 3 target snare tactic range 25ft -15ft
Also i probably miss something.

Bo skill bubble is currently stronger than sm one, which is correct cause it needs a target.
Other Sm bubbles were nerfed, its core tactic (absorb on def) moved high up snb tree, absorb blade enchant switched to bo like wound buff

Im yet to see any ability that is even remotely close to Uwot

30% armor sounds strong, 5k armor -> 6,5k armor and capped resists with 10 sec downtime sounds realisitc and balanced.
So if a wl hits with armor debuff, BO wont notice anything. If we add tank with demolsih, poor BO will have meager 4k armor.
Also you forgot +15% parry/dodge/disrupt (and block if snb) and meager 10% damage (people consider strong +4% dmg bonus on armor sets and stackable +1%)

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TARDIONm
Posts: 75

Re: U Wot

Post#43 » Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:59 pm

lol , BO dont have good ST punt , instead have this skill , and if you use jug for remove snare after YouWot, next snare you dont removed long time. lol. Its good skill for solo game, but its not imb. If on slayer - nerf Rampage, after this nerf BO you wot - ok , but before , go away with this point ahaha
FMJ

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TARDIONm
Posts: 75

Re: U Wot

Post#44 » Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:01 pm

its top skill in three, but youre crying ahaha) ofc you dont see youre side imbalance skill before this and start talk and crying about this ... infinite lol
After BO's damage change type to spirit, after add this you wot for SM , ofc. np.)
FMJ

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TARDIONm
Posts: 75

Re: U Wot

Post#45 » Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:07 pm

forsa wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:51 pm
mubbl wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:14 pm yee, wod and cant hit me are the thingies to compare, still one is bound to snb, no real dmg possible, and one is bound to 2h as the dmg stuff of the class. takeing your argument about place in skill tree...wod is base skill, is sometimes better, since you still can disrupt/dodge enemies you dont face(right?).
indeed you could take unstoppable jugg, but you sac a tactic for a one trick pony. (it only removes slows not makes you immune)
even with tactic jugg and you wot doesnt line up with cd.
i found some images from 2008 that incline ED was also usable in snb, but someone (ror or aor devs) decided it should be bound to 2h.
im not sure what you wanted to say a few posts later with snare was moved to big brawling, but it just snares for 20%. which means following your own words is more or less worthless?

tbh 30% more armor sounds strong, but sadly there is weapon skill and also order is quite potent in armor debuffing, if you want.
in my case i find it way easier to get "magic" dmg number trought the enemy metigation, since noone cares about that.
weapon skill is nice, but not easy to get for tanks on the other hand.
following your argumentations till now, 2h knight can just take raciual bubble tactic or slot bubble m1 or unique m2, mostlikley doesnt make much sense.
but why are we/you talking about knights?
but bubbles are a nice point, cause SM has better bubbles. Same for healing stuff.
Erm, what "dmg stuff of the class" do you mean? 100 spirit damage? Tooltip damage of CantHitMe is x1.75 higher than that of WoDS. But afaik both channels are not about damage.

Unstoppable Jaggernaut reduces its cd to 20 seconds(15 with waagh), insecure debuff kicks in after 20 seconds. Cant see why "with tactic jugg and you wot doesnt line up with cd", they fit perfectly.
I wrote that this "drawback" is laughable cause bo can remove it without any assistance. Are you trying to compare 20% snare on bork to AoE snare attached to no cd skill that can affect 24 targets, including engi, sw, am, wp, rp and other classes, who have a hard time removing it, especially if it can be instantly reapplied.

Bo has armor debuff, m1 demolsih armor, ws selfbuff, can mix warlord and beastlord set, even statsteal further increasing stat.

Following your argumentations about knight - he was nerfed:
- Vigilance (-50% inc damage, -25% damage penalty for kn, 10 sec 1 min cd , shatterable does not affect guard damage) was restricted to SnB only.
- Runefang changed into trash lvl tactic (cause it was sooooo OP in 1v1)
- m2 Empis Champion restricted you from usng any morales for 5 min, later reverted but reduced from 30 sec to 15 sec.
- Mighty soul removed from game
- party crit buff on block 10% -> 5% (always excluded kn)
- enemy inc crit debuff moved from aura to 2h only 55ap skill, that can be blocked.
- Stay focused (uniqe kn aura ) ap regen on def was removed, healing is still weaker than ch aura (reason - cause all kn use it)
- reflect cd was nerfed, deleting reflect kn builds from game (sad Second)
- 3 target snare tactic range 25ft -15ft
Also i probably miss something.

Bo skill bubble is currently stronger than sm one, which is correct cause it needs a target.
Other Sm bubbles were nerfed, its core tactic (absorb on def) moved high up snb tree, absorb blade enchant switched to bo like wound buff

Im yet to see any ability that is even remotely close to Uwot

30% armor sounds strong, 5k armor -> 6,5k armor and capped resists with 10 sec downtime sounds realisitc and balanced.
So if a wl hits with armor debuff, BO wont notice anything. If we add tank with demolsih, poor BO will have meager 4k armor.
Also you forgot +15% parry/dodge/disrupt (and block if snb) and meager 10% damage (people consider strong +4% dmg bonus on armor sets and stackable +1%)
and have 6k hp ahahah or 5k wounds? lol good mix
FMJ

User avatar
TARDIONm
Posts: 75

Re: U Wot

Post#46 » Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:08 pm

youre talking about very nice theoricraft, but you dont play on BO and dont see BO problems.
FMJ

User avatar
TARDIONm
Posts: 75

Re: U Wot

Post#47 » Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:16 pm

aaaand ofcourse SM dont have in 2h core skill Wall of Dartin Steel (inst 0cd + 50dodge / disrupt/pary)
FMJ

User avatar
Nefarian78
Posts: 460

Re: U Wot

Post#48 » Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:54 pm

Literally weakest tank in the 6v6 scene with absolutely no niche whatsoever, only kept alive by said skill and there's people that want to nerf it? Oof.

Yeah, no. The skill is fine as is.

EDIT: just read the guy think FO is an actual tactic and is taken by BO/SMs. Aight, imma head out
Last edited by Nefarian78 on Sat Apr 10, 2021 1:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
They done stole my character's names. Can't have **** in RoR.

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mubbl
Posts: 277

Re: U Wot

Post#49 » Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:42 am

Spoiler:
forsa wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:51 pm
mubbl wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:14 pm yee, wod and cant hit me are the thingies to compare, still one is bound to snb, no real dmg possible, and one is bound to 2h as the dmg stuff of the class. takeing your argument about place in skill tree...wod is base skill, is sometimes better, since you still can disrupt/dodge enemies you dont face(right?).
indeed you could take unstoppable jugg, but you sac a tactic for a one trick pony. (it only removes slows not makes you immune)
even with tactic jugg and you wot doesnt line up with cd.
i found some images from 2008 that incline ED was also usable in snb, but someone (ror or aor devs) decided it should be bound to 2h.
im not sure what you wanted to say a few posts later with snare was moved to big brawling, but it just snares for 20%. which means following your own words is more or less worthless?

tbh 30% more armor sounds strong, but sadly there is weapon skill and also order is quite potent in armor debuffing, if you want.
in my case i find it way easier to get "magic" dmg number trought the enemy metigation, since noone cares about that.
weapon skill is nice, but not easy to get for tanks on the other hand.
following your argumentations till now, 2h knight can just take raciual bubble tactic or slot bubble m1 or unique m2, mostlikley doesnt make much sense.
but why are we/you talking about knights?
but bubbles are a nice point, cause SM has better bubbles. Same for healing stuff.
Erm, what "dmg stuff of the class" do you mean? 100 spirit damage? Tooltip damage of CantHitMe is x1.75 higher than that of WoDS. But afaik both channels are not about damage.

Unstoppable Jaggernaut reduces its cd to 20 seconds(15 with waagh), insecure debuff kicks in after 20 seconds. Cant see why "with tactic jugg and you wot doesnt line up with cd", they fit perfectly.
I wrote that this "drawback" is laughable cause bo can remove it without any assistance. Are you trying to compare 20% snare on bork to AoE snare attached to no cd skill that can affect 24 targets, including engi, sw, am, wp, rp and other classes, who have a hard time removing it, especially if it can be instantly reapplied.

Bo has armor debuff, m1 demolsih armor, ws selfbuff, can mix warlord and beastlord set, even statsteal further increasing stat.

Following your argumentations about knight - he was nerfed:
- Vigilance (-50% inc damage, -25% damage penalty for kn, 10 sec 1 min cd , shatterable does not affect guard damage) was restricted to SnB only.
- Runefang changed into trash lvl tactic (cause it was sooooo OP in 1v1)
- m2 Empis Champion restricted you from usng any morales for 5 min, later reverted but reduced from 30 sec to 15 sec.
- Mighty soul removed from game
- party crit buff on block 10% -> 5% (always excluded kn)
- enemy inc crit debuff moved from aura to 2h only 55ap skill, that can be blocked.
- Stay focused (uniqe kn aura ) ap regen on def was removed, healing is still weaker than ch aura (reason - cause all kn use it)
- reflect cd was nerfed, deleting reflect kn builds from game (sad Second)
- 3 target snare tactic range 25ft -15ft
Also i probably miss something.

Bo skill bubble is currently stronger than sm one, which is correct cause it needs a target.
Other Sm bubbles were nerfed, its core tactic (absorb on def) moved high up snb tree, absorb blade enchant switched to bo like wound buff

Im yet to see any ability that is even remotely close to Uwot

30% armor sounds strong, 5k armor -> 6,5k armor and capped resists with 10 sec downtime sounds realisitc and balanced.
So if a wl hits with armor debuff, BO wont notice anything. If we add tank with demolsih, poor BO will have meager 4k armor.
Also you forgot +15% parry/dodge/disrupt (and block if snb) and meager 10% damage (people consider strong +4% dmg bonus on armor sets and stackable +1%)
sorry im drunk af, bu you just violate your own rles...not worth my attatnion anymore. good luck have fun in forums, will join in ocassionaly if you hit up the ****. you looked promising for disussions, but cant follow your own questions(knight stuff in bo/sm thread, focused on bo skill.) stop chasing your tail like a dog in arguements. if you wanna start question strucurle stuff, ask about drawf skills on 5 points, which have alot of familiar parts on destro on 11 points+. drunken rant finished. just stay on your own topic (=

noronn
Posts: 40

Re: U Wot

Post#50 » Sat Apr 10, 2021 1:05 am

forsa wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:51 pm

30% armor sounds strong, 5k armor -> 6,5k armor and capped resists with 10 sec downtime sounds realisitc and balanced.
So if a wl hits with armor debuff, BO wont notice anything. If we add tank with demolsih, poor BO will have meager 4k armor.
Except thats not how the armor calc works. Maybe get a friend to log his bo and test a bit. It's 30% of your current value (which isnt 5k anymore if you get armor debuffed by ability + moral).

The skill is literally a non issue in even remotely organized play and has a nice opportunity for a go on the BO during its downtime.

Maybe go and play a blackorc and you will see that the grass isnt always greener on the other side.

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