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Focused Offense

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arorwne
Posts: 185

Focused Offense

Post#1 » Sat May 01, 2021 9:52 pm

Right, so everybody knows this is a meme Tactic that has one, quite possibly unintended, niche: free +15% dmg vs light physical teams in Scenarios. It is a literal meme everywhere else. And let me give you an example:

Swordmaster: 80% DR without FO, ~53% with FO vs a lvl 37 mob, Dragonwake. Here are some numbers:

+FO: 150 Damage on average ; 100 Damage with Heaven's Blade -> HB MANDATORY
-FO: 80 Damage flat ; 80 Damage with Heaven's Blade -> Possibility to take something else(Nature's for Offense or Phantom's for Defense)

150 / 80 = 87,5% Extra Damage(!!!)
100 / 80 = 25% Extra Damage(still well above the stated 15%)

So, let's turn it into a less bumbling, more graceful version of itself. Let's first see the rules text:

YOU DEAL 15% MORE DAMAGE AND ALL ENEMY MONSTERS WILL HATE YOU 15% LESS THAN NORMAL, BUT YOUR ARMOR IS REDUCED BY 33%.

Here are two suggestions:

1. YOU DEAL 15% MORE DAMAGE AND ALL ENEMY MONSTERS WILL HATE YOU 15% LESS THAN NORMAL, BUT ALL DAMAGE YOU RECEIVE IS INCREASED BY 15%.
2. YOU DEAL 15% MORE DAMAGE AND ALL ENEMY MONSTERS WILL HATE YOU 33% LESS THAN NORMAL, BUT YOUR ARMOR IS REDUCED BY 15%.

So, let's see what's what.

1. This suggestion turns an otherwise niche, memey tactic into a real choice. No longer can you supersaiyan right into the face of a Sorceress just because she doesn't deal "arbitrary" damage. It would also help quite a bit with all forms of solo ventures, always a plus to incentivize creating support roles.

2. This is a cop-out, but it could work, yeah, I can see it. Basically, the values of reductions got swapped. You can no longer tank, no way, but you actually can be a Tanky DPS in all forms of gameplay. The intended(arguably) purpose of this tactic.

///

Thank you for reading that. I just want this to do something apart from being teh meme of all memes. And it's especially bad when compared to its "sister tactic": Divine Fury. DF just changes your gameplay style(from Heal to Support imo) while preserving your viability and then some(MUCH better solo ventures for one). FO does NOTHING and has too big a malus for what it does. Dmg increases on both sides should really be 1 : 1. 1 : 2,5 is ridiculous, who takes offers like those?

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Thaodan
Posts: 21

Re: Focused Offense

Post#2 » Sun May 02, 2021 2:50 am

2. Would kill it of everywhere since +15% damage taken is worse without getting anything else in return.

Thank you for reading that. I just want this to do something apart from being teh meme of all memes. And it's especially bad when compared to its "sister tactic": Divine Fury. DF just changes your gameplay style(from Heal to Support imo) while preserving your viability and then some(MUCH better solo ventures for one). FO does NOTHING and has too big a malus for what it does. Dmg increases on both sides should really be 1 : 1. 1 : 2,5 is ridiculous, who takes offers like those?
Divine Fury doesn't nerv meele heals only casted heals

nocturnalguest
Posts: 207

Re: Focused Offense

Post#3 » Sun May 02, 2021 5:26 pm

It should either decrease "Taunt" cd or increase the numbers of stacks.

arorwne
Posts: 185

Re: Focused Offense

Post#4 » Sun May 02, 2021 9:01 pm

Thaodan wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 2:50 am
2. Would kill it of everywhere since +15% damage taken is worse without getting anything else in return.

Thank you for reading that. I just want this to do something apart from being teh meme of all memes. And it's especially bad when compared to its "sister tactic": Divine Fury. DF just changes your gameplay style(from Heal to Support imo) while preserving your viability and then some(MUCH better solo ventures for one). FO does NOTHING and has too big a malus for what it does. Dmg increases on both sides should really be 1 : 1. 1 : 2,5 is ridiculous, who takes offers like those?
Divine Fury doesn't nerv meele heals only casted heals
I know. It even increases your lifetaps, by some marginal amounts(5% or so). That's why I mentioned it. With some Grace points or Efficient Runecarving(and the like), you end up rewarded rather than punished. Quite unlike Focused Offense. And I'm uncertain whether it'd really kill it(it would give it a give and take mentality). Right now, with it modifying your Armor Value by 0,66, it is just such a decrease in survivability...it is NOT warranted unless you are really going vs a practically "no physical" group in Scenario. Which is more theoretical than anything else.
nocturnalguest wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 5:26 pm
It should either decrease "Taunt" cd or increase the numbers of stacks.
This is a nice idea. Maybe auto proc Taunt or something, like a reverse version of Goblin Detaunt tactic? Care to suggest more?

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vanbuinen77
Posts: 111

Re: Focused Offense

Post#5 » Sun May 02, 2021 9:37 pm

Your armor is decreased by 33% but you deal 33% more seems fair.
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arorwne
Posts: 185

Re: Focused Offense

Post#6 » Sun May 02, 2021 9:56 pm

vanbuinen77 wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 9:37 pm
Your armor is decreased by 33% but you deal 33% more seems fair.
I thought about that, but imagine what'd happen in that theoretical Scenario. You'd become a literal Slayer with 2x more hp etc. Gotta think from all angles. And yes, your suggestion is the easiest bandaid fix. But also wrong. Because it'd have so many nasty side effects(=even less people Guarding because you just know that people would see "DEAL...+33%...DAMAGE" and go bonkers).

Another idea: What if FO removed the stack mechanic from your Taunt and caused an AoE proc or something? I rather like the first suggestion, that has potential. It could even lose its current +15% damage because it'd turn into a flat +30% damage.

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space44
Posts: 280

Re: Focused Offense

Post#7 » Mon May 03, 2021 1:20 am

dude as 2H chosen right now as i speak am doing 700 normally and can hit up to 1k at most using focus offense and other tactics.
Chosen: Roten Plaguelord rr85 | Knight of the Blazing Sun: Lyntyz Jesterknight rr63 | Warrior Priest: Ulfrric Greywolf rr51

arorwne
Posts: 185

Re: Focused Offense

Post#8 » Mon May 03, 2021 7:50 am

space44 wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 1:20 am
dude as 2H chosen right now as i speak am doing 700 normally and can hit up to 1k at most using focus offense and other tactics.
Are you talking about full offensive Sov? If so, that only reinforces my point. One shouldn't be in a "BiS gear"(whatever it might be called at a given Rank or RR) just to be able to use a Tactic*.

Even then, the drop in survivability is ABSURD when compared to what you get. Again 80 -> 150 and 200 -> 350+(Champ)...that's a pretty big difference.

Not to mention WHEN you get FO(=R13). Most people are gonna try it, feel somewhat more powerful, but markedly more vulnerable, get burned and repeat the vicious cycle of "FO = memez". It is memez, but could it get salvaged without incurring bad consequences? That's the real question.

*this is not even mentioning useless tactics like Stoutness of Stone(Dwarf Racial 1 aka shorter hard CCs) which is, get this, COMPLETELY POINTLESS in T1(aka when you get it). Sure, it's very nice later on, but...marginally useful(like other racials, including Dark Blessing)...ok, flatout useless? Lol, substitute that ****!

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CytheX
Posts: 101

Re: Focused Offense

Post#9 » Mon May 03, 2021 11:41 am

How about u do more dmg but ur guard absorb less dmg?

arorwne
Posts: 185

Re: Focused Offense

Post#10 » Mon May 03, 2021 12:47 pm

CytheX wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 11:41 am
How about u do more dmg but ur guard absorb less dmg?
E pur si muove! That's it!

This could solve so many issues without gimping too much and even giving "loldps" tanks what they want(like they guard to begin with). I would personally use this for solo, while I'd, naturally, Guard etc in groups. It is my job after all.

What a beautiful idea, how'd you come up with it? Devs, what do you think?

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