Black Orc Rework

[Duukar]

Black orks have been guttted and require a complete rework.

You took WAHHGGGG away, buffed it, and gave it to SMs. Thats our mirror.

I spent 100s and 100s and 100s of hours grinding out BiS for SnB and 2h on my Blork...

It would be REALLY nice if you guys would redefine the class identity since we no longer have WAHHHHHGGGG or the best Morale pump.. What exact role should we fill in WB play or Ranked play or Small man play?

The other tanks do everything we can do, but better.

We have no LOOONNNG range punt... have fun with ranked play...
We have no CDR.... But out mirror does paired with an aoe interrupt ON DEMAND...
We have no improved morale pump.. Chosen have the same now....

We have a WS buff...

We dont have a spot in the single target group in City.. we Dont have a spot in the AoE groups in city.. 2 chosen is WAY better.. or even a chosen and a BG...
We cant excel at ranked play because we lack a reasonable punt. Small man makes WAY more sense to bring a Chosen and BG....

We need new 12 point abilities on the center and right tree.. we need to abilities in the 5 slot and the 9 slot.. really we have nothing useful anymore.. just a WS buff...

[detrap]

Spoiler:

Black orks have been guttted and require a complete rework.

You took WAHHGGGG away, buffed it, and gave it to SMs. Thats our mirror.

I spent 100s and 100s and 100s of hours grinding out BiS for SnB and 2h on my Blork...

It would be REALLY nice if you guys would redefine the class identity since we no longer have WAHHHHHGGGG or the best Morale pump.. What exact role should we fill in WB play or Ranked play or Small man play?

The other tanks do everything we can do, but better.

We have no LOOONNNG range punt... have fun with ranked play...
We have no CDR.... But out mirror does paired with an aoe interrupt ON DEMAND...
We have no improved morale pump.. Chosen have the same now....

We have a WS buff...

We dont have a spot in the single target group in City.. we Dont have a spot in the AoE groups in city.. 2 chosen is WAY better.. or even a chosen and a BG...
We cant excel at ranked play because we lack a reasonable punt. Small man makes WAY more sense to bring a Chosen and BG....

We need new 12 point abilities on the center and right tree.. we need to abilities in the 5 slot and the 9 slot.. really we have nothing useful anymore.. just a WS buff...

Here are some things I can think of.

BO's have a group resistance buff on being hit, SM's don't.
BO's have a silence and ST cooldown increaser, SM's don't.
BO's have the highest burst damage of all the tanks.
BO's have a AoE snare with no cooldown, SM's don't.
BO's have one of the best offensive morales for warband or small scale fights with their m3.
BO's can reduce incoming magic damage for party by hitting any target, no cooldown, SM's can't.
BO's AoE snare can increases build up time and debuffs strength all with one ability.
BO's still have a morale pump, SM's don't.
BO's can with one ability buff auto attack damage of group and have a ln AoE corporeal debuff to boost Sorc damage significantly if the targets don't have their resistances buffed.

SM's don't have a ST punt either with 2H, it has to be with a shield and requires block and is on a 20 second cooldown, and shield isn't much use for six man's. For the BO the same part of the mastery tree they get their block channel.

Hope it helps.

[starness88]

"BO's have a group resistance buff on being hit, SM's don't." => Does not stack with choosen aura and it's a chance to proc on being hit
"BO's have a silence and ST cooldown increaser, SM's don't." => SM had a silence and ask to delete it. CD increaser is monotarget with 20sec it doesn't add much thing in wb
"BO's have the highest burst damage of all the tanks." => A good one but clealy not the highest, SM can do better in 2h with spiritual damage and 2 spell cast interupt
"BO's have a AoE snare with no cooldown, SM's don't." => 20% snare, it's totally ignored when you play it.
"BO's have one of the best offensive morales for warband or small scale fights with their m3." => That's true i agree with that but moral charge has been nerf.
"BO's can reduce incoming magic damage for party by hitting any target, no cooldown, SM's can't." => We are in melee meta, the magic debuf is 4 sec only on a third posture ability, while this time SM has an ability that can do the same and reduce ALL DAMAGE and not only the magic one§.
"BO's AoE snare can increases build up time and debuffs strength all with one ability." => Choosen aura do more so this tactic has no real impact except if we think 20% snare is strong.

Spoiler:

it's not

"BO's still have a morale pump, SM's don't." =>I Agree but moral pump has been nerfed
"BO's can with one ability buff auto attack damage of group and have a ln AoE corporeal debuff to boost Sorc damage significantly if the targets don't have their resistances buffed." => AA make good damage in ST but it's a bit anecdotic in aoe. In ST you want to run with a 2H buid and it mean sacrify many talent point to reach the waaagh.
"SM's don't have a ST punt either with 2H, it has to be with a shield and requires block and is on a 20 second cooldown, and shield isn't much use for six man's. For the BO the same part of the mastery tree they get their block channel." => A ST punt is interesting to punt a guard, so it mean ST group oriented, it mean ST 2h build for the BO, it mean that you won't invest 11 pt in the middle tree.

[Culexus]

So that's the feedback part done. What are the suggestions for our new role now that we can no longer Waaagh! bot?

None of us like the fact the our cdr has gone, but it has. Let's move forward and come up with some suggestions on what our new role can be within a group.

Our main problem at the moment is that we only provide minor group utility at best. What kind of ability changes would we like to see that would set us apart from Chosen and BG?

How about a rework of We'z Bigger for a start as it's currently the top ability of our tank tree but is completely useless at only a 3 second duration.

[detrap]

Spoiler:

"BO's have a group resistance buff on being hit, SM's don't." => Does not stack with choosen aura and it's a chance to proc on being hit
"BO's have a silence and ST cooldown increaser, SM's don't." => SM had a silence and ask to delete it. CD increaser is monotarget with 20sec it doesn't add much thing in wb
"BO's have the highest burst damage of all the tanks." => A good one but clealy not the highest, SM can do better in 2h with spiritual damage and 2 spell cast interupt
"BO's have a AoE snare with no cooldown, SM's don't." => 20% snare, it's totally ignored when you play it.
"BO's have one of the best offensive morales for warband or small scale fights with their m3." => That's true i agree with that but moral charge has been nerf.
"BO's can reduce incoming magic damage for party by hitting any target, no cooldown, SM's can't." => We are in melee meta, the magic debuf is 4 sec only on a third posture ability, while this time SM has an ability that can do the same and reduce ALL DAMAGE and not only the magic one§.
"BO's AoE snare can increases build up time and debuffs strength all with one ability." => Choosen aura do more so this tactic has no real impact except if we think 20% snare is strong.

Spoiler:

it's not

"BO's still have a morale pump, SM's don't." =>I Agree but moral pump has been nerfed
"BO's can with one ability buff auto attack damage of group and have a ln AoE corporeal debuff to boost Sorc damage significantly if the targets don't have their resistances buffed." => AA make good damage in ST but it's a bit anecdotic in aoe. In ST you want to run with a 2H buid and it mean sacrify many talent point to reach the waaagh.
"SM's don't have a ST punt either with 2H, it has to be with a shield and requires block and is on a 20 second cooldown, and shield isn't much use for six man's. For the BO the same part of the mastery tree they get their block channel." => A ST punt is interesting to punt a guard, so it mean ST group oriented, it mean ST 2h build for the BO, it mean that you won't invest 11 pt in the middle tree.

And if you don't have a chosen in the party, BO is the next best thing against magical damage. Better than the SM's version.

The ST cooldown increaser is still strong in warband vs warband play since it has 50% uptime. It's 5 seconds longer than the IB's version.

BO's get a core 25% crit damage bonus tactic, unique to them compared to all other tanks. That's why they can hit the hardest.

Not sure how 20% snare is ignored easily. Constant snare of any % is one of the most annoying parts of RvR. It's makes it harder to escape or even keep up in range of my guard.

The SM has to run over to a Sorc/Magus and ST them with the damage debuff to work or if all the Sorcs/Magus' are somehow within 15ft when using Raking Talons. BO's version has a better benefit for group utility because it protects the group from magic damage and all they need to do it hit anything nearby. BO's at least get 50% uptime on their physical damage reduction ability on ST's, plus the AoE strength debuff to help as well.

BO's still have the group bubble and usually higher block than other tanks which takes tremendous stress off your healers.

Still plenty to contribute to the warband.

[Rydiak]

Cause:
One function that was added by RoR (and should never have been) is removed from BO, a tank of incredible power and utility.

Effect:

Black orks have been guttted and require a complete rework.

[Winry]

This dude again, you do know that BO hasn't had the CD decreaser for that long right?
Saying that a class is gutted and requires a complete rework makes me think you don't know anything about what the BO has to offer except for WAAGHH.

[ururu]

We'z bigger could use a duration increase. Your group ain't gonna move far in 3 seconds, especially in keeps.

[Detangler]

You guys should PM Herbalessences - he's apparently got the new Black Orc build down solid. Dude last night was top DPS and top protection on Destro... as a Black Orc... it was nuts.

[ururu]

Topping protection charts ain't big deal on BO. Topping dps charts, however, says more about his dps companions than his build.