BG tank suggestions (SnB)
Posted: Sat May 29, 2021 12:43 pm
Hello,
new thread with some BG SnB changes suggestions.
I look at the BG tank tree, and I do have several remarks & suggestions:
Remark:
1) 2 'survivability' abilities, are in the 3rd tree. same for IB. May well be fine... but why go tank tree then.
2) None of the tank tree abilities cost 'hatred'.
3) BG has 3 tactics, that are related to defense: + parry, +block, and + disrupt, all scaling with hatred. None of the tank tree tactics offer any group (or even Dark Protector) advantage or utility. That is without 'Terrifying Foe', +T scaling with... Hatred.
4) multiple abilities doing the same thing, or related to the same thing. 'Crush the weak': - enemy crit chance. Force of Fury: less likely to be crit. But, see nr 5:
5) single-target (de)buffs. No wonder Chosen is tank nr 1 in group setting. NB: BG top tank ability, gives - crit chance. Chosen has a -10% chance to be crit for entire group, whenever he crits. That's on top of Aura's.
Suggestion time:
* Swap 'Shield of Rage' (dmg shield, 10s cd) with 'Feeding on Weakness' between 2nd & 3rd tree.
Shield of rage: if you have a shield equipped, also increases your block chance by 10% for 10s.
Makes levelling SnB quite a bit better. The +block with hatred tactic will be removed (replaced).
This 'Shield of Rage' has an advantage over KotBS & similar +Block / +Parry attacks: you don't need an enemy nearby; just hatred. Otoh, it deals no damage of course. But it can't be parried/blocked either :p
"Feeding on Weakness": make this attack, undefendable, 10s cd, increase the healing component. (SM has an undefendable attack from early on)
"Terrifying Foe": Rename to "Shielded by Hate". Make it trigger from 'Shield of Rage', and also apply to your Dark Protector.
10s duration, grants +40% toughness, decreasing by 2% every second. ( So after 5s, is at +30% toughness)
This makes 'Shield of Rage', the best BG ability. NB: IB still has a +25% parry, 100% uptime, to self & oathfriend. KotBS/Chosen have their Aura's...
It also makes for a bit of a 'swingy' damage: at first, +40% toughness, and damage shield. Then, as the shield is destroyed, the toughness is dropping a bit too.
If we assume 500 toughness, and we average this to giving +30% toughness, then that is +150 toughness to your Dark Protector. Toughness is hardly game-breaking.
Tanks like Swordmaster & BO, have a weaker shield bubble.. but it applies to everyone in the group within range.
* None shall pass: no longer a channeled ability. +20% block chance to you for 10s.
You & your dark protector, take only 80% dmg from all sources for the duration.
40s cooldown.
* Put 'Crush the Weak' in the Loathing tree, swapped with 'Wave of Scorn'.
Crush the Weak requires a shield, becomes an AoE around you (25 feet?), costs 30 hatred, deals it's current damage, and reduces enemy armor penetration by X%. (% to be decided. I propose 20-25%, if it is multiplicative. e.g. an enemy attack has 40% armor pen. loses 20-25% of that, that's 8-10. Attack is resolved at 30-32% armor pen.
This attack generates increased threat. (tanking tree has little + AoE threat abilities. I'd consider the same for 'Wave of Scorn' btw.
*that* is I think, something different, unique etc; and something worth bringing a BG *tank* for.
2-handed BG still brings the +Crit AoE. SnB BG brings armor pen reduction.
It is also, another Hatred costing ability for the tank tree.
The more armor pen the enemy has (a 100% armor pen ability, from behind the target?), the better this is, as it's multiplicative.
Of course, no effect vs 'resist' damages.
10s duration, 10s cooldown?
"Wave of Scorn": for 55 actions points: besides the current snare: also increases the cast time of the next ability with cast time within 10s, by +50%, and the one after, by +25% for enemies hit.
(replace by +1s/+0.5s if preferable).
Fits the idea of BG as 'anti-magic' tank imo. I don't think BG has an AoE interrupt, so this is a 'replacement'.
* '+Block tactic': renamed to 'Terrifying foe':
Shatter enchantment no longer has a requirement.
It removes 1 enchantment, 1 Heal over time effect, 1 damage absorbing effect, and 1 Blessing from the target.
For each effect removed, the cooldown is increased, by +2-3 seconds.
Inspiration from the 'Spellbreaker' ability for Slayers; this seems like just the sort of thing Dark Elves would/should have.
Perhaps it should be in a different tree, but I'm trying to buff SnB here, and again, the 'anti-magic' tree, has plenty of healing/protection abilities.
Compared to Spellbreaker: also removes a HoT. But, does not deal extra damage per effect removed, instead has the cooldown increased. And it requires a tactic slot.
SM has the cd reduction ability, mirrored by the Choppa on Destro.
Why not mirror the Slayers ability with a BG tactic?
* Force of Fury: requires a shield?
also increases your & Dark Protectors resists;
and: increases movement speed by +25% for the duration.
(something a bit unique to BG. Other tanks can do better morale/AP boosting,... +25% movement speed for the group would be OP. But for 1 other player? NB: not a root/snare break.
Implementing all changes might well be OP.
But this is the style of changes that I think could really help SnB BG:
an AoE + cast time (20s cooldown!), an AoE armor pen reduction (something AoE, unique... ),
replacing at LEAST 1 + 'defense' tactic, making the effect 'baseline' in the rotation.
abilities (/1 tactic) that actually, truly help your Dark Protector; more so than an Aura helps everyone...
and 1 spicy change to 'Shatter Enchantment', though requiring a tactic slot.
That should be highly valuable if the BG tank can get to a tunneled-target.
new thread with some BG SnB changes suggestions.
I look at the BG tank tree, and I do have several remarks & suggestions:
Remark:
1) 2 'survivability' abilities, are in the 3rd tree. same for IB. May well be fine... but why go tank tree then.
2) None of the tank tree abilities cost 'hatred'.
3) BG has 3 tactics, that are related to defense: + parry, +block, and + disrupt, all scaling with hatred. None of the tank tree tactics offer any group (or even Dark Protector) advantage or utility. That is without 'Terrifying Foe', +T scaling with... Hatred.
4) multiple abilities doing the same thing, or related to the same thing. 'Crush the weak': - enemy crit chance. Force of Fury: less likely to be crit. But, see nr 5:
5) single-target (de)buffs. No wonder Chosen is tank nr 1 in group setting. NB: BG top tank ability, gives - crit chance. Chosen has a -10% chance to be crit for entire group, whenever he crits. That's on top of Aura's.
Suggestion time:
* Swap 'Shield of Rage' (dmg shield, 10s cd) with 'Feeding on Weakness' between 2nd & 3rd tree.
Shield of rage: if you have a shield equipped, also increases your block chance by 10% for 10s.
Makes levelling SnB quite a bit better. The +block with hatred tactic will be removed (replaced).
This 'Shield of Rage' has an advantage over KotBS & similar +Block / +Parry attacks: you don't need an enemy nearby; just hatred. Otoh, it deals no damage of course. But it can't be parried/blocked either :p
"Feeding on Weakness": make this attack, undefendable, 10s cd, increase the healing component. (SM has an undefendable attack from early on)
"Terrifying Foe": Rename to "Shielded by Hate". Make it trigger from 'Shield of Rage', and also apply to your Dark Protector.
10s duration, grants +40% toughness, decreasing by 2% every second. ( So after 5s, is at +30% toughness)
This makes 'Shield of Rage', the best BG ability. NB: IB still has a +25% parry, 100% uptime, to self & oathfriend. KotBS/Chosen have their Aura's...
It also makes for a bit of a 'swingy' damage: at first, +40% toughness, and damage shield. Then, as the shield is destroyed, the toughness is dropping a bit too.
If we assume 500 toughness, and we average this to giving +30% toughness, then that is +150 toughness to your Dark Protector. Toughness is hardly game-breaking.
Tanks like Swordmaster & BO, have a weaker shield bubble.. but it applies to everyone in the group within range.
* None shall pass: no longer a channeled ability. +20% block chance to you for 10s.
You & your dark protector, take only 80% dmg from all sources for the duration.
40s cooldown.
* Put 'Crush the Weak' in the Loathing tree, swapped with 'Wave of Scorn'.
Crush the Weak requires a shield, becomes an AoE around you (25 feet?), costs 30 hatred, deals it's current damage, and reduces enemy armor penetration by X%. (% to be decided. I propose 20-25%, if it is multiplicative. e.g. an enemy attack has 40% armor pen. loses 20-25% of that, that's 8-10. Attack is resolved at 30-32% armor pen.
This attack generates increased threat. (tanking tree has little + AoE threat abilities. I'd consider the same for 'Wave of Scorn' btw.
*that* is I think, something different, unique etc; and something worth bringing a BG *tank* for.
2-handed BG still brings the +Crit AoE. SnB BG brings armor pen reduction.
It is also, another Hatred costing ability for the tank tree.
The more armor pen the enemy has (a 100% armor pen ability, from behind the target?), the better this is, as it's multiplicative.
Of course, no effect vs 'resist' damages.
10s duration, 10s cooldown?
"Wave of Scorn": for 55 actions points: besides the current snare: also increases the cast time of the next ability with cast time within 10s, by +50%, and the one after, by +25% for enemies hit.
(replace by +1s/+0.5s if preferable).
Fits the idea of BG as 'anti-magic' tank imo. I don't think BG has an AoE interrupt, so this is a 'replacement'.
* '+Block tactic': renamed to 'Terrifying foe':
Shatter enchantment no longer has a requirement.
It removes 1 enchantment, 1 Heal over time effect, 1 damage absorbing effect, and 1 Blessing from the target.
For each effect removed, the cooldown is increased, by +2-3 seconds.
Inspiration from the 'Spellbreaker' ability for Slayers; this seems like just the sort of thing Dark Elves would/should have.
Perhaps it should be in a different tree, but I'm trying to buff SnB here, and again, the 'anti-magic' tree, has plenty of healing/protection abilities.
Compared to Spellbreaker: also removes a HoT. But, does not deal extra damage per effect removed, instead has the cooldown increased. And it requires a tactic slot.
SM has the cd reduction ability, mirrored by the Choppa on Destro.
Why not mirror the Slayers ability with a BG tactic?
* Force of Fury: requires a shield?
also increases your & Dark Protectors resists;
and: increases movement speed by +25% for the duration.
(something a bit unique to BG. Other tanks can do better morale/AP boosting,... +25% movement speed for the group would be OP. But for 1 other player? NB: not a root/snare break.
Implementing all changes might well be OP.
But this is the style of changes that I think could really help SnB BG:
an AoE + cast time (20s cooldown!), an AoE armor pen reduction (something AoE, unique... ),
replacing at LEAST 1 + 'defense' tactic, making the effect 'baseline' in the rotation.
abilities (/1 tactic) that actually, truly help your Dark Protector; more so than an Aura helps everyone...
and 1 spicy change to 'Shatter Enchantment', though requiring a tactic slot.
That should be highly valuable if the BG tank can get to a tunneled-target.