Broadhead Arrow Suggestion.

[Bavradai]

Healing Shaman here.
BHA is becoming such a problem to deal with that I'm forced to run group cleanse as a tactic to stop it utterly ruining my warbands. If I don't start cleansing as soon as it appears every last git in my group will come down with multiple 3x stacks of it, the damage this does on top of normal damage taken during RvR is becoming impossible to attempt to outheal. The moment it is cleansed, another cluster of fresh stacks immediately takes it place. If you're in a place where you cannot reliably reach the SW's to counter them you're going to get farmed.

[wargrimnir]

Marauder's pull is much reliable/faster than WL pull. Choppa pull put in you insta shred.

Order doesn't like the constant aoe knock down and mara/choppa pulls either.

These are the worst abilities to cite when arguing against a nerf. Mara and choppa pull were both nerfed precisely because the devs thought they were overperforming, like WL pounce.

Finally, when does "Infinite BHA" occurs? The devil is in the details. It does never occur.

Someone posted up the active debuffs, so it might be rare, but it does seem to happen. If it doesn't happen often, don't see why you'd oppose a soft cap on stacking. I'd lazily have thought for performance issues, it would need to be scaled back.

That's on a keep lord. If you had that many dots on you as a player, there's no being saved, nor should there be.

[Onigokko0101]

Marauder's pull is much reliable/faster than WL pull. Choppa pull put in you insta shred.

Order doesn't like the constant aoe knock down and mara/choppa pulls either.

These are the worst abilities to cite when arguing against a nerf. Mara and choppa pull were both nerfed precisely because the devs thought they were overperforming, like WL pounce.

Finally, when does "Infinite BHA" occurs? The devil is in the details. It does never occur.

Someone posted up the active debuffs, so it might be rare, but it does seem to happen. If it doesn't happen often, don't see why you'd oppose a soft cap on stacking. I'd lazily have thought for performance issues, it would need to be scaled back.

That's on a keep lord. If you had that many dots on you as a player, there's no being saved, nor should there be.

Okay, so precisely that is happening all the time in Keeps and Forts even with well put together Groups/WBs with group cleanses.

Its a massive issue as many people have pointed out.

[BeautfulToad]

Okay, so precisely that is happening all the time in Keeps and Forts even with well put together Groups/WBs with group cleanses.

Its a massive issue as many people have pointed out.

Will need a better screenie I suspect.

[redwolf777]

[/quote]

That's on a keep lord. If you had that many dots on you as a player, there's no being saved, nor should there be.
[/quote]

That is not on a keep lord, it was posted by a warband member in an NA reikwald while we were preparing to push.
These kind of stacks occur all the time and that is on the relatively low end, we had some of the best known healers in the game NGE,LoB etc that could not keep up with the damage while we were coordinating spam cleanses on chop fasta.

If you go to any offensive fort as destro and stand outside main you will see it clearly for yourself

[wargrimnir]

That's on a keep lord. If you had that many dots on you as a player, there's no being saved, nor should there be.

That is not on a keep lord, it was posted by a warband member in an NA reikwald while we were preparing to push.
These kind of stacks occur all the time and that is on the relatively low end, we had some of the best known healers in the game NGE,LoB etc that could not keep up with the damage while we were coordinating spam cleanses on chop fasta.

If you go to any offensive fort as destro and stand outside main you will see it clearly for yourself

There are 8 instances of BHA, most of them with 3 stacks. The other screenshot someone used as proof showed crits of 1550. That should be 12,400 damage per tick, not counting anything else going on. They should be dead, and the fact they aren't dead means this probably isn't nearly the concern that it's being made out to be. If you're getting hit by 10-15 different players, it should absolutely take some world class healing to stay alive.

So either
a. The person getting hit was one hell of a defensive tank with tons of HP and world class healers
b. BHA doesn't do nearly as much damage as other people have claimed in this thread
Or c. the screenshot above isn't from an actual player, since keep lords can take that sort of beating. Notably missing from that "player" is any defensive buffs. Things keep lords don't have.

If A, they're standing in the funnel, doing what a def tank should be doing, trying to stay alive, keeping defenses up, holding the line, etc
If B, the screenshot is conveniently missing any kind of combat log to go along with it, where we might see some of those BHA stacks tickling rather than debilitating
If C, Keep lords have a limit to the number of buffs being displayed, BHA is pretty early in that list alphabetically. Again, no defensive buffs is pretty damning. But surely people on the internet wouldn't just lie.

[redwolf777]

It was a chosen, the only person that could survive, everyone else was dying under the reikwald bridge outside main door trying to line of sight the spam from above.

Here is another instance from inside BP

https://imgur.com/a/seHMDAZ

I am very much willing to get some more screenshots and combat logs as I appreciate this doesn't mean much by itself, its a bit of an issue for the top warbands, but I am worried how much more demoralising it may be to the average open group

[Evilspinnre]

As someone who elusively does RvR on Order, I can tell you that fort defences and attacks have become comically easy.

With attacking, it's not longer build m4's and co-ordinate morale drops and areas each warband will go. It's now "wait 30s for them to melt from ranged aoe (because it still hits even if you're hugging the wall) and then dry push while 1/3 are dead or at 30% morale.

Defending, even easier. Stack above the lord room and spam BHA on their blob. Pierce defences means HTL does nothing. If they're not in an organised 2-2-2 WB they melt, even vs pugs. If they are, they have no support and their healers are doing nothing but countering the RDPS. The moment they push the extra damage from melee inside melts them.

Destro have managed to push to plenty of forts, but the RDPS spam, especially the BHA SW meta, has made it almost impossible for them to succeed. There's a reason Altdorf is 5 stars 90% of the time.

[teiloh]

If BHA isn't doing the standard 2nd defense check, that would probably be a good immediate first step.

[Elvicof]

So either
a. The person getting hit was one hell of a defensive tank with tons of HP and world class healers
b. BHA doesn't do nearly as much damage as other people have claimed in this thread
Or c. the screenshot above isn't from an actual player, since keep lords can take that sort of beating. Notably missing from that "player" is any defensive buffs. Things keep lords don't have.

If A, they're standing in the funnel, doing what a def tank should be doing, trying to stay alive, keeping defenses up, holding the line, etc
If B, the screenshot is conveniently missing any kind of combat log to go along with it, where we might see some of those BHA stacks tickling rather than debilitating
If C, Keep lords have a limit to the number of buffs being displayed, BHA is pretty early in that list alphabetically. Again, no defensive buffs is pretty damning. But surely people on the internet wouldn't just lie.

a. It is clearly a defensive tank as no other can survive those dots. But staying alive in a funnel on destro and order are 2 completely different things.
b. The hits ppl are complaining about clearly isnt on defensive spec tanks, but hey i guess that was a tough 1 to figure out. If only some1 had access to numbers from the game so they could see if the ability is overperforming or not.
c. Missing defensive buffs as an argument, when you can edit most addons to show debuffs only. But again if only some had access to the actually numbers.

Ofc ppl are lying on the internet or exstravigating the problem, but now we have a 10 pager, which should indicate that something isnt completely in order. But yeah calling ppl liars are just easier i guess.