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oRvR feedback openletter from organized warbands

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Caduceus
Posts: 653

Re: oRvR feedback openletter from organized warbands

Post#31 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:54 am

ORvR is, in my experience, the heart and soul of Return of Reckoning.

There are problems and finding solutions which are also workable for a team with limited resources is a huge challenge.

Has anyone considered tying the control of battlefield objectives to being able to spawn in the keep?

For example, when a faction holds 3 BOs, that faction is able to respawn in their keep as long as the inner keepdoor is not tagged, much like how it used to work before they implemented the flightmasters.
"I watched a snail crawl along the edge of a straight razor. That's my dream; that's my nightmare. Crawling, slithering, along the edge of a straight razor... and surviving." - Colonel Walter E. Kurtz

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sighy
Posts: 259

Re: oRvR feedback openletter from organized warbands

Post#32 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:10 am

This thread really reminded me of conversations from cca mid 2019, in the aftermath of the tick removal. Game being boiled down to "Big zerg beat small Zerg" was one of the major concerns raised at the time(besides T1 experience becoming a dumpster fire).


As an officer in a small RP/RvR guild over the past year we've started to seriously struggle to keep players engaged, in the actually playing the game. The oRvR was always the same old more people beat less people mentality and most maps until keep is 2* have a clear Warcamp to Warcamp line, where like 90% of the people are running back and forth.(100% in Nordland, because there you would have to run through the attacking Zerg to actually capture supplies, when your realm happens to have fewer people.) I agree with what the people quoted by Bombling said that there is not enough personal emphasis on HOLDING Battle Objectives, with the current supply system actively encouraging people to avoid fights or run back and forth between warcamps, which gets really old really fast.

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nebelwerfer
Posts: 646

Re: oRvR feedback openletter from organized warbands

Post#33 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:18 am

Spoiler:
a lot of problems with the campaign goes back to the old warband shitters themselves as they pile on any decent fight ultimatly ruining it, never carrying their realm but being on their own 1337 flanks when the main body of their sides regional force is a weak pug wb etc. Like the times i see the killcount spiral out of control in favor of one side when numbers are even just because one plays within earshot and the others are wildly running around trying to win decisivly through a flank instead of slowly taking ground through skirmishing..

but i think a lot of the more frustrating issues can be mitigated and new easy to implement features would help (just code it in bro)

like having guild standards usable when mounted and make your banner show on the map for your allies (and foes if they purchase spies at the keep for example ) to make up for the extreme lack of communication in /2

or having pug warband leaders show on the map for all those who are in the zone regardless if you are in their warband.

Allow marking enemy warbands on map that'll stick for a while say 3-5 min(theres already an addon that does this but getting an actual integrated map marker would be nice) for people who enjoy stalking enemy movement and report it, make this easier for them.

tons of stuff to do to make rvr more enjoyable, gl hf sry for my longpost


tldr imo its mostly a player issue but a lot can be helped through better features and design

licenje
Posts: 84

Re: oRvR feedback openletter from organized warbands

Post#34 » Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:54 am

On BO stuff... dont know how hard it is to implement or if its even possible...

Something like old AION style (stoped playing when ground abyss came out so donno rly what happend after that), give BOs some activate ability like 3 sec faction map wide stun that scales with keep stars (2stars-3sec stun, 3stars-4sec stun, 4 stars -5sec) this way you can have up to 4 different ability, or it can scale with number of BOs your fraction control on map then you only have one ability, with 15 min cd or something and make it so it costs good amount of gold (like 400 or so) or some new resourse thats gain on guild base (with PVP plz no PVE!!!!) so ppl dont spam it like idiots...

That way fraction thats siegeing will wona control BOs to activate for funnel push, and defending fraction will wona control BOs to activate for siege wipe...
I tink it will make BOs more of what they are suposed to be Battle Objecives.

Again no idea if its possible but i liked it in AION so thought id share xD

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Tabelrel
Posts: 65

Re: oRvR feedback openletter from organized warbands

Post#35 » Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:38 am

Mythic over the years obviously tried different campaign mechanics from victory point accumulation to what we have now. Just a few ideas that hopefully are not flights of fancy.

1. The BO's used to spawn resource carriers at one point, so no carrying boxes but you would need to defend the bo's to maintain the generation and also defend the supply routes, so that may spread the battle out a bit from the BO's and avoid just blobbing.

2. The victory point system obviously at the time included scenario/pq's and as tiers were split an alignment of victory in them. Those don't really work in RoR but maybe other factors like player kills or something x that could count to zone lock, not just keep take and hold 3 bo's. The player kills would have to be a ratio of kills/player pop to avoid just zerg kills.

3. For keep defence, we also had the altars in the keeps and they are still there (visually). From what i can rememeber they were fueled by skulls of the fallen dropped by players and would unleash a blast wave from the keep when activated.

4. Tie winning in the previous zone to getting the most advantageous keep in the next zone i.e. if you win the previous zone you get the keep nearest your warcamp, it doesn't just flip-flop like it does now.

5. If the defending side in a keep is heavily outnumbered then the NPC guards are uprated defensively and become more aggressive. Not sure if this can be done dynamically based on player pop ratio.
Last edited by Tabelrel on Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:13 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Tabelrel Witch Elf rr84
Alixr Sorc rr86
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tazdingo
Posts: 1199

Re: oRvR feedback openletter from organized warbands

Post#36 » Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:53 am

BO ticks should have never been removed, as a mechanic it did more to bust zergs than any other. also one thing i always wished for but have never seen discussed was the re-introduction of ordnance. when zerging is literally the only reliable way to get renown then that is what people are going to do

orvr does currently feel like a chore, on every char i ding 40 i dread the road to vanq just so i can go back to being competitive in SCs again, it feels like a job i have to but don't want to do. this wasn't the case when BO ticks still existed

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Tabelrel
Posts: 65

Re: oRvR feedback openletter from organized warbands

Post#37 » Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:49 pm

Now admittedly this is a bit more of a re-imagining and flight of fancy. Added some new thoughts about guild resources since last post.

The game is constrained by a small team of devs and the tools they have available to them to create new content\amend existing content i.e. they don't have an easy way to change what is already there. We know that outside the rvr lakes is a huge amount of pve content but generally holding trash item rewards the vast majority don't need or want.

I started on Eltharion, perhaps the server i had most fun on as it was an orvr server, not core and you could say that war was every where. i.e.you were always flagged for a fight where ever you were. Some of the best fights i had were in and around pq's etc and despite what you may think it wasn't a lowbie gank fest and tended to be self-policing and brought a different dynamic to the game instead of just fight in the same lakes over and over again, following a pretty set pattern.

I would argue that when mythic brought out the game it had its orvr/core/rp servers, the core servers appealing to the wow pve crowd, but RoR is very much a pvp crowd not that bothered with pve, so why restrict its ruleset to that market anymore.

The issue is of course why would anyone do a PQ these days, they don't, you just get trash gear but what if the PQ's actually gave some thing you wanted or actually needed. Could the PQ's be designed to drop something that is wanted or perhaps items that could help the overall campaign? Would this spread the battle out if the orvr rule set implemented by default and the battle spread out from the lakes? This wouldn't need the devs to try and shift map boundaries and move bo's just allow you to fight in a greater area. Or if your guild needs resources from the farming areas, be prepared to come and fight for them, you can fight the opposition while you are fighting lizards. Nothing like a bit of restriction in guild supply or personal gold to motivate people. It MIGHT make it more of a sandbox type experience instead of the on rails system we have currently and Eltharion always felt more of a sandbox than the servers that came after it.

So

1. I would exclude T1 maybe T2, you don't want lowbies getting ganked
2. orvr rule set instead of core
3. Something that brings PQ's back into the game and turns them into battle areas worth competing for.

You may think these are daft ideas and will have downsides i'm sure but thought worthwhile to just chuck them out there as you never know it might spark someone to have other ideas.
Last edited by Tabelrel on Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:47 pm, edited 11 times in total.
Tabelrel Witch Elf rr84
Alixr Sorc rr86
Artful Dodger Zealot rr30xx
Kerang Blorc rr30xx

"She turned me into a Newt...but i got better”

Da Fat Squigs 2012 - 2021
Ard Az Nailz\Greenpeace Alliance (Eltharion) 2008 - 2010

Garamore
Posts: 397

Re: oRvR feedback openletter from organized warbands

Post#38 » Sun Jun 13, 2021 3:48 pm

Less gear from forts/city
Equal crests/gear for loosers and winners - still do contribution for who wins bags
More crests from RvR - make its so you dont need city to get Sov
Door goes down faster if you hold the BO's - 1 bo 10% of max, 2 bo 20% of max, 3 bo 50%, 4 bo 100%
No box running - do holding BOs to rank keep.

Simple, easy and effective
Garamore - Chosen Garamar - Marauder Garachop - Choppa Garamor - Slayer

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MMXX43
Posts: 223

Re: oRvR feedback openletter from organized warbands

Post#39 » Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:09 pm

Half of the guilds that complain about zerging are the ones that mega blob . Pretense at its best. Your small scale kiting groups and aoe mega blobs are not here to be competitive, they are here to farm soloers and pugs dont even bother denying it, on the occasion of an organized wb entering the fray YOU ULTRA MEGA blob just to wipe it.....cause you are competitive and on the prawl for good fights........

Sure keep takes require a large scale commitment but to roam in lakes with 3 alliance wbs fighting 1 and a half wb or being a xrealm guild and sticking to the side that has more organized wbs and more people online is not competitive. Its you that is the problem. Of course the destro apologetics were not ommitted, no , you cant stack 2 cd red on your wb now , no you cant morale bomb in 30 secs now, you never really should have been able to.

Rvr is problematic now that NB is gone and some semblance of realm balance is on the move ? ( further nerfs should be implemented for destro, looking at maras and witches ).

And to catch the "IC on CD for months now mhkay! " posts , when is was Altdorf it was ok? Note that asides the NA popultion problems there isnt really anything of note going on here.

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thefarthestland2
Posts: 10

Re: oRvR feedback openletter from organized warbands

Post#40 » Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:09 pm

only stayed in the game people benefited from this whole ridiculous system.
The game system was made to favor a specific player profile.
Now that the game is languishing, after you abused it...people realized it's bad...funny

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