oRvR feedback openletter from organized warbands

[Onigokko0101]

I really hope the Dev's listen to this letter. I play with a lot of these guys, and right now I think something we can all agree on is that oRvR is in a terrible state. Its legit just push the zone fast, or defend the keep. Thats it.

All for a city that will most likely be a stomp.

Dont get me wrong, when fights happen and are close its so much fun, like pulse pounding time of my life fun- but lately thats been more and more rare.

I would LOVE a big rework of oRvR and maybe putting cities at set times to encourage people to actually play the game beyond Zerg pushing.

I would also love Forts to just be removed from the game as its dumb content from either side of the equation. Defending or Attacking, Order or Destro I have never had fun in a fort. Its some of the lowest skill gameplay in the game. There is a reason live removed forts. Thats just me though.

[Onigokko0101]

feels like you need a comment from Brodda tbh - one of the only "organized" destro wbs left and even then he struggling to fill it for orvr these days cause destro = struggletown. Maybe even Laserheals/Cueleen if she still organising wbs on order.

Atleast in NA time he is. The problem a lot of organized WB leaders on Destro have been having is that you can win the fights in the lakes, but come Fort time you might as well not do it because you can 2/2/2 with multiple WBs and still get melted by a certain ability that I wont name- despite 3x HTL, Despite cleanses. So a lot of players are just tired of even trying.

Besides that NA Destro has always had a pop disadvantage, but its only gotten worse over time now.

[Onigokko0101]

It would be very nice if defending keeps and forts did things beneficial to progression so you don't find yourself torn between having fun with a nice keep defense and getting rewards with losing that keep because it'll push to fort.

No reason to defend a fort from a city push when everyone in the game wants royals. Could make it so the defending side of a city push (just before sieging a city) gets to roll for Royals on a successful defense. Attackers will only get Invaders - but they open the city should they win to get the chance at Royals. Should give people a reason to defend against their city being sieged - because it will benefit them and hinder the other realm.

If you implement this idea though you MUST find a way to make forts more interesting/fair tactically. Seems like destro struggles to push in most the time cause Black Orcs are too big to squeeze past, lol. There has to be a way to split up the nascar nature of fort sieges.

They tried this idea with invaders back before cities. It just lead to sides giving away middle zones so they could take the next zone and get an invader.

Before they implemented forts, keep sieges were fun. People defended to the last, no one threw zones, and it was all about realm pride. Gatelocking gear behind certain types of RvR only leads the playerbase to try to unlock that type of RvR as soon as possible - joining overpopulated side, throwing a zone, being "that guy" with the siege ram, etc.

My suggestions

- lower city and Fort token rewards a bit OR increase orvr token rewards. Let the players choose how they want to get their gear. No more solo queue pubstomps - they won't bother cause they can just go fight in the lakes while you wait at the city gates hoping for a pop.

- make BOs mean something during sieges. Spawned NPC defenders in keeps for defending side, additional siege equipment ammo and damage for attackers - something besides just more boxes to run.

- implement Trippie's suggestions. The playerbase always wants more shinies. Shinies at keeps would be fun. Half the reason WoW was so successful was because they understood this early on and catered the hell out of their game to collecting **** so your Tauren has the coolest threads on the block.

Trippies idea would be nice too. Tons of people want neat glamour stuff, every modern MMO has a ridiculous amount because of this. There are quite a few artists that have been willing to help design new stuff for the game as well, idk how many are still playing but I bet if the Devs reached out to the community they would find some people.

[licenje]

Not realy wb lead or anything moslty do 1-12 mans in orvr or join bene guild wb but heres my point of view.

I realy tink its dongeon, instance problem (mostly pve), devs focus to much on instance combat for all bis items in game... best weapons in game PvE dong, best set PvP instance, best acc PvE dong, and only bis stuff you can get form Orvr is sov set and is only cos of bags and it takes **** load of time to get if you dont do city, i know cos i dont do city or pve... so im stuck with same acc set and same weapons for 4 years cos i dont do pve... and i got no way around it.
I know dev invested alot off time and effort to get those instances working but give it a rest it pvp game im here for 5 years and i never seen anyone that i play with say i cant w8 for next CT not even when they need only one more for ring, it more like f... i need one more.

in my opinion PvE stuff its not suposed to be bis in pvp game, its something you do so you can work toward bis items...

So just make new acc set thats only gain in Orvr and new weapons that are only gain in Orvr (and make it stronger than sent -blood) and watch ppl got back to Orvr its that simple its fun bash each other heads in Orvr but when there is no reward to work for its just stale...

[Duukar]

This game puts way too much weight on winner takes all. I’ve said this for over a year with terrible reception from devs and established long term players. It applies to everything and I’ve warned about the snowball effect we are seeing right now.

Simple fix —— the rewards for winning and losing everything should be FAR more even. Literally winning should give 100% rewards and the loser should get 90% rewards. SCs Forts Cities all of it.

Then you don’t have incentive to hop to the winning side to get loot. The snowball effect is real.

You would almost be stupid to play destro. Words I’ve heard spoken in trusted Discords.

Really what’s the harm to loosen up this winner takes all system that drives inequity.

There must be additional controls cause 90% rewards to losing side may translate into slacking.

On population balance - I remember about a year+ ago the situation was opposite, too many Destro and too few Order. And before that Order was dominating. And even before that Destro had numbers. I am sure in 6 months permanent 5 stars on Altdorf and 1 star on IC will be more like a distant memory.

People move between sides all the time. Personally I do not like it, I play Order only but I am a minority. Let them move if they like, bloody xrealmers without flag and allegiance)))

And yeah, rvr is a bit boring. I wish there would be something to demotivate zergs and spread ppl all around doing things

Thanks for your reply.

I havent presented a fully cooked idea. There would need to be more rules like no reward if you go afk for more than 10 mins or something.

I found it funny that you are worried about people "slacking" while playing a free retro video game though. As if that were something anyone should ever care about. Like oh noes someone got benefit from time played in a game no! please no!

Being on the losing side in RoR is like smashing your head into a wall atm because the rewards are soo much better if you win. This will 100% cause the back and forth "Snowball effect" because why would a player waste their time losing over and over and getting almost nothing for rewards.. This is another added danger of their "NERF HARD WITH A BIG STICK" patch style.. The balance swings and the population follows.. Things have gotten quite extreme in NA primetime.

SCs are the best example.. Orvr is the best example.. Ranked is the best example.. The whole game is the best example of this aside from organized city WB play..

[meatcpu]

Seems like "more reason to play BO's" is a pretty common suggestion. I've never really found my stride in RvR and there's a lot of mechanics that aren't obvious (boxes run to keep give more? Running a box is how you get into a sieged keep). Maybe an NPC that explains some of this in a warcamp would help. I've found a few forum threads but I still feel like there is a lot I don't know. Quests that make a player find tunnels in the lake perhaps.

I know at 5 stars the zone flips, is there really another reason for running boxes past 2 star? What if higher keep levels and BO control buffed siege weapons. Is it any harder on average to capture a 4 star keep than a 2 star? Maybe every supply box flown in provides ammo that makes it easier to bomb large groups, so there's a heavy incentive to supply the defending force in the keep. Something like "X sent ammo siege weapon dmg increased for 30 seconds".

What if after a failed city defense there was a "need for revenge buff" perhaps stackable so each time a realm wins each win becomes a bit harder. Maybe the city bosses offer an increasing bounty in desperation to increase recruits so a defense after successive failures becomes worth more. Not too unlike the fact that a recently killed player is less rewarding. Maybe this could create a dilemma for X-realming. Do you want the side that's likely to win or the side that has the most to gain?

[frankystein65]

One thing I've really noticed about ORVR during NA times is destro really doesn't have a primary building force and Order has a huge over population. This overpop results in order winning a lot in zones due to sheer numbers. I don't think destro is underpopped as a side but Destro takes advantage of PVE during the NA hours and this really kills the zones and leaves very big AAO numbers. While order doesn't typically run PVE pug, only organized guilds really try to do any sort of PVE and it becomes very hard to find groups for CNT/BS and even gunbad sometimes on order without knowing the right people. This could be to the overpop of warrior priests and their lack of need for PVE since it gives dps gear.

I think a defection from Destro to Order (NA time) is more like it. it has been painfully obvious watching mass shifts in population at the most inopportune times. there are other issues as well but I think addressing this issue would help substantially. currently there is a 90 minute hold time on which ever faction you have logged on to before you can switch factions. the issue is if you have been playing for more than 90 minutes there is no real wait time. a more practical solution would be a short respite from the time you log off, say 15-20 minutes. that should dissuade people from switching to take advantage of any current situation.

[wonshot]

Got a few more people reaching out to me on discord and forum PMs. will add them as requested to the main topic. But feel free to just drop them in the topic if you want to chip in with constructive feedback guys.
Also once again, try to keep "suggestions" out of this. There is a suggestions forum for that

Kahzog from Odyssey on Destro (newplayers friendly warband)

Spoiler:

I'm Kahzog and I'm a guild officer of Odyssey (Destro). We are by no means one of the top guilds, but we have some very skilled players. We focus on recruiting new or returning players. Once a week, I host an organized warband for the guildies during EU primetime (21 Altdorf time). For many of our members, that is their first impression of organized group play, using balanced warbands and discord. Thus I focus on the basics - what is your role in the warband, when to wait and when to push, moving as a team. One of the biggest challenges is positioning, but it is also the most rewarding. I think every member of our guild has memories of epic lord-of-the-rings style flanking action, boxing order warbands in, creating the classic hammer-anvil situation. That's why people join oRvR and organized warbands.

Over the last year though, those battles have become more scarce. There is the destro population decline of course, but also the tendency of people to blob up. I think most warband leaders know the situation - SoR shows that there should be a vanguard of order in the zone, but roam all you want, you find none - they all hole up in the keep. So, when I organize guild warband today, I focus on getting the most out of a difficult situation (without xrealming ...), learning how to move back-and-forth with the zerg, snatching some kills and retreating again. While this can generate a good stream of renown, it's ultimately pointless and not motivating in the long run. People yearn for the hard-earned victories. They want to feel like they have an impact. But fighting against the zerg does not feel impactful at all. And that is kinda sad.

The goal of adjustment's for oRvR should be to get players out in the open field. Defending a keep while the enemy holds most BO's? Should be impossible. Think of real-life - people will just starve to death. Attacking a keep without any BO's? You'll lack the supplies to support your army, leaving your men vulnerable and exhausted.

Greetings

[wonshot]

Grufrip DF Destro greenskin guild

Spoiler:

I've been long time around in ror, joined in 2014 and started to lead greenskin parties and warbands with my guild which
ended on my control in 2015 and is still up and running but for last few years it's been feeling like ORvR has lost its former glory, epic memorable 24vs24 times are long gone and pvp turned into mindless zerging and easy reward searching, still getting amazing fights but those are getting more and more rare. Too often finding ORvR in situation where I have to face triple or quadruple amount of opposite faction players with my guild party and warband runs, maybe even more, and it turn everything frustrating, boring and stale to all. This zerg rollercoaster jump back and forth between factions causing there to be too much enemies to face or nothing at all. Either way is bad and is eating the fun out from ORvR. Not mentioning lack of purpose of holding battlefield objectives in ORvR lakes or doing other tasks. Need iron will to stay in game while running parties or warbands, not looking good if asking me.

[ZillaT]

Hello.

I havnt read much of this thread other than the initial post. I just want to say Ive been playing this since 08.
Ive tried countless times to get RvR to become better. IMO, its the BOs and their effectiveness in battle that is the biggest problem in RvR.

Ive submitted countless ideas, tried to work with devs, find out what can be done..
Ive had accounts banned because of this.
Ive returned to the game after almost 2 years. I notice nothing has changed, I make another thread about it, I ask in game.. whats going on..?

My account gets muted. Another problem is the community whom play this game.
It seems they do not RvR for PvP. There is no reason to do PvP in RvR, its all based on avoiding the enemy, a keep siege involves sitting on walls..
There is no reason for BOs to exist other than resources.

Why dont players ONLY drop resources? Why dont we have to actually HOLD BOs for resource. Why dont BOs contribute towards fighting in someway??
Why is it run and grab and run away. Ive seen so many WBs avoid fighting each other because they are carrying resources..... like wtf.
RvR is a mindless stupid joke. And anytime you try and bring up anything insightful, or why this, or why that. You get attacked!

I really do hope there are good points in this thread. I hope the devs realize, how much this is becoming such a joke!
There is no reason to do any PvP in RvR, it is not necessary at all. Most people dont even seem to want to PvP anymore in RvR. If it werent for SCs, there would be no reason for me to be in the game.
I participate in RvR, when there are good fights. Which is hard to find, unless zergs are running into each other. Most of the time its everyone running away from everyone else.
Sitting on walls, just to go to the next wall.. To try and funnel. Go to third floor..
Beat on a PvE lord..
None of this has changed. After 10 years Im on the verge of finding new games, its sad. Bcuz it could be so much better.

Why dont you listen to the PvP community, in the PvP game. Instead of people who cater on running around And avoiding any and every opportunity to engage in battle.