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Dragon's Talon

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Fenris78
Posts: 786

Re: Dragon's Talon

Post#11 » Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:57 pm

I'd love to have more 10s duration skills on the SM, like other tanks have.

Like Eagle's Flight, Dragon Talon or Dazzling Strike (wich is barely useful anyway except maybe against 1-2 healers), even if it means getting a cd on them. Currently having to constantly use the same buff/debuff on each and every rotation, only to keep uptime close to 100% is really a pain, not to mention as said just before, you cannot use your other perfect balance skills in the meanwhile.

I think with a 10s Eagle flight (even 15s to match the Chosen mirror skill), SM will suffer less since there are litterally tons of things to do in the meanwhile.

And without tactic, Dragon Talon is not really uber strong, saving against Lords (Keeps, Fortress and PQ) for contribution, or DPS champions in City phase 3.

In WB fights it's useless (you better use WW, kd, Ether Dance or even Dazzling strike on healers), and 1v1 you have better debuff to use or more damaging perfect stance skills to use anyway.

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Aethilmar
Posts: 634

Re: Dragon's Talon

Post#12 » Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:30 pm

If the OP hates it now, must have really hated it when it was more useful and stacked with itself. He obviously has a strong case of the "grass is greener" syndrome with his new SM toy.

Also, @Fenris, I too would like to see some longer CDs/ability durations in the SM arsenal to encourage different rotation patterns.

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Battlefield
Posts: 382

Re: Dragon's Talon

Post#13 » Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:02 pm

similar ability Ya missed me has duaration 10 seconds and cooldown 20 seconds usable after block

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BluIzLucky
Posts: 689

Re: Dragon's Talon

Post#14 » Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:17 pm

Battlefield wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:10 pm Dear developers, if you made Vigilance (Kotbs) and Oppression (Chosen) abilities only usable for snb tanks in this way SM has Dragon's Talon ability (no cooldown) that reduce damage of target to 80% so it's almost 20% permanent damage reduction.
This ability also from middle path as Vigilance and Oppression abilities !
Borc has similar ability Ya missed me it requires block too to use and 20 seconds cooldown!
Also Dragon's Talon stackable with guard it means 70% damage reduction.So you thoughts?
As others have said, to get 100% uptime, it takes 50% of SMs time, leaving very little for anything else.

Also.. it is very rarely a 20% reduction, with guard it's 0.5 x 0.8 = 0.4 .. so a 10%, add bellow and it's 5% reduction, and don't think it's stacks with Challenge but might be wrong and even if it did it would still have great diminished returns.

I think it's overrated and haven't specced it in a while, now I go AoE with PW which means way better NB procs, support dmg, and my Challenge get a lot more value since PW has good range so I don't have to stand in the middle of everything.

Most SMs would probably welcome a 10sec duration of a 20 sec cooldown lol..
SM - Arhalien +80 | AM - Shaheena +80
ZL - Wildera +70 | BG - Blackcrow +70

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Battlefield
Posts: 382

Re: Dragon's Talon

Post#15 » Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:33 am

BluIzLucky wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:17 pm
Battlefield wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:10 pm Dear developers, if you made Vigilance (Kotbs) and Oppression (Chosen) abilities only usable for snb tanks in this way SM has Dragon's Talon ability (no cooldown) that reduce damage of target to 80% so it's almost 20% permanent damage reduction.
This ability also from middle path as Vigilance and Oppression abilities !
Borc has similar ability Ya missed me it requires block too to use and 20 seconds cooldown!
Also Dragon's Talon stackable with guard it means 70% damage reduction.So you thoughts?
As others have said, to get 100% uptime, it takes 50% of SMs time, leaving very little for anything else.

Also.. it is very rarely a 20% reduction, with guard it's 0.5 x 0.8 = 0.4 .. so a 10%, add bellow and it's 5% reduction, and don't think it's stacks with Challenge but might be wrong and even if it did it would still have great diminished returns.

I think it's overrated and haven't specced it in a while, now I go AoE with PW which means way better NB procs, support dmg, and my Challenge get a lot more value since PW has good range so I don't have to stand in the middle of everything.

Most SMs would probably welcome a 10sec duration of a 20 sec cooldown lol..
Sorry i don't understand your formula but i saw in logs how i was hitting a target with guard and i got about 70% damage reduction when SM used Dragon's Talon on me then ofc SMs using Ether Dance ability but when it goes to cooldown 8 seconds one time after without any problems they can use Dragon's Talon too.
Main suggestion is Dragon's Talon must require block or parry as Ya Missed me ...

pvprangergod
Suspended
Posts: 171

Re: Dragon's Talon

Post#16 » Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:47 am

Dragon talon stacks with guard, challenge and bellow+morales.

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Aethilmar
Posts: 634

Re: Dragon's Talon

Post#17 » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:02 am

Battlefield wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:33 am
BluIzLucky wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:17 pm
Battlefield wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:10 pm Dear developers, if you made Vigilance (Kotbs) and Oppression (Chosen) abilities only usable for snb tanks in this way SM has Dragon's Talon ability (no cooldown) that reduce damage of target to 80% so it's almost 20% permanent damage reduction.
This ability also from middle path as Vigilance and Oppression abilities !
Borc has similar ability Ya missed me it requires block too to use and 20 seconds cooldown!
Also Dragon's Talon stackable with guard it means 70% damage reduction.So you thoughts?
As others have said, to get 100% uptime, it takes 50% of SMs time, leaving very little for anything else.

Also.. it is very rarely a 20% reduction, with guard it's 0.5 x 0.8 = 0.4 .. so a 10%, add bellow and it's 5% reduction, and don't think it's stacks with Challenge but might be wrong and even if it did it would still have great diminished returns.

I think it's overrated and haven't specced it in a while, now I go AoE with PW which means way better NB procs, support dmg, and my Challenge get a lot more value since PW has good range so I don't have to stand in the middle of everything.

Most SMs would probably welcome a 10sec duration of a 20 sec cooldown lol..
Sorry i don't understand your formula but i saw in logs how i was hitting a target with guard and i got about 70% damage reduction when SM used Dragon's Talon on me then ofc SMs using Ether Dance ability but when it goes to cooldown 8 seconds one time after without any problems they can use Dragon's Talon too.
Main suggestion is Dragon's Talon must require block or parry as Ya Missed me ...
Are you sure you weren't challenged? 70% is exactly the damage reduction you get there.

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Battlefield
Posts: 382

Re: Dragon's Talon

Post#18 » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:27 am

yeah i'm sure it was Dragon's Talon i saw in logs all time this ability and Challenge works only for 3 hits cooldown 30 seconds
Last edited by Battlefield on Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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skylinx
Posts: 81

Re: Dragon's Talon

Post#19 » Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:14 am

Maybe just make dragons talon only usable when you have a shield equipped like other abilities linked to the tank tree?

Most SMs are 2h anyway and, like someone already mentioned, it's only worth using dragons talon with the aoe tactic. I'm sure most 2h SMs wouldn't be spending points in the middle tree to get aoe tactic.

Also, with SM rotations, I couldn't imagine a time I would choose single target dragons talon over ether dance, whispering wind, crashing wave, or even blurring shock.

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Fenris78
Posts: 786

Re: Dragon's Talon

Post#20 » Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:23 am

skylinx wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:14 am Maybe just make dragons talon only usable when you have a shield equipped like other abilities linked to the tank tree?
Please no. KotBS already got badly screwed with no defensive abilities/tactics for 2H spec, dont do the same with SM.
Class mechanic and masteries are already limiting anyway.
skylinx wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:14 am Also, with SM rotations, I couldn't imagine a time I would choose single target dragons talon over ether dance, whispering wind, crashing wave, or even blurring shock.
Same, even when you already used WW, CW, ED, you still have dazzling strike wich hits much harder, and blurring shock (but a bit less useful against players with anticrit meta and short TTK anyway).

Dragon Talon is barely used in any 6v6 or wb engagment, as we mentioned, 2H SM already got plenty other useful skills to use instead of a meh 4s ST debuff wich wont help securing a kill.

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