Dragon's Talon

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normanis
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Re: Dragon's Talon

Post#31 » Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:45 pm

in 1 video jackalinhat spamed quake stunned 3 order and spamed ravage killed 1 by 1. would be prety cool to make sm do same 1k avarage crit from some sm abilities would be welcome.
p.s i have feeling all post is to buff dragons talon not nerf.
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Sinisterror
Posts: 838

Re: Dragon's Talon

Post#32 » Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:35 pm

normanis wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:45 pm in 1 video jackalinhat spamed quake stunned 3 order and spamed ravage killed 1 by 1. would be prety cool to make sm do same 1k avarage crit from some sm abilities would be welcome.
p.s i have feeling all post is to buff dragons talon not nerf.
He says first 30 seconds that point is just to show dmg nothing else and also later shows focused offense dmg. Besides i was saying how different and how much superior CS is or was, u can see it proccing on enemy all the time on that video, 10 sec tactic that refreshes itself cannot miss it. i didnt talk about dmg at all.is not relevant now when talking about 10 second -25 % DMG DEBUFF that refreshes itself when chosen crits on ANY direct dmg ability and was maybe the best counter for slayers/rampage and +15% allies heal aura. Did that heal aura also nerf enemy -15% dont remember. Also chosen used to do much more dmg than what jackal does in that video, like SM used to have melee absorb bellow + 500+ armour buff and -5disrupt that stacked with potion and at some point, quite early there SM used to have great absorbs and very deadly dots, and lots of them. Even in SnB some SM's had very nice dmg.

Im not saying all that shhould be brought back, but somethings like absorb bellow and snare changed to 9 sec spirit dot would be perfect combo for me to be on ROR because live had both offense procs on defensive gear and vice versa. This really opens so much versatility/uniqueness, all classes had probably like at least 7 more proc options just from weapons from T4 quests, cityinstance/pve. And none of that is counting any LOTD or rr 100 stuff. Imo best WPN Proc and overtuned a bit that should be replaced in RoR : D was Twanga o'da'rampage for SH that had 10 % on hit to get 12%crit and 18% critical dmg. Espesially overtuned when only classes that got more crit/critdmg procs (20+%DMG and 10% Crit) on sovereign gear was SH/SW and MAGUS/ENGI.

Here's few other live videos from same time which is rr 80 and sove sets for reference and BLORC dmg used to be insane and the welf dmg as well. BTW if someone knows about good WELF video before they were given ranged finishers i would love to see that so send me link. And these video's like chosen are all just about dmg so they are showing big hits but they are very squishy. i remember doing some scs against and with that blorc that is on 1 video ive linked. Viable zealot dmg is my fave because that is so far from what it's now : D Uniqueness is so important like WL being Able to jump on keep walls and be the only class (except morale 2 sm) that can do that. WL's were so good at what they were supposed to do, kill fast & kill goblins, their natural predator that Squigherder & Shaman dont have anymore.

There was awesome sc team; FO parvun was guarded by snb chosen and parvun was guarding melee dok and 2h bg that was guarding another dps dok + 1 heal zealot or heal dok. That party did wreck every sc they ever did probably=) Nice found 1 video marauder duels of same time rr 80 max, who beats me in that 2 times, and i remember when he put that out i was like dude i won like 20-2 show 1 vic pls but now its fun to see! Also i so miss viable dmg dps zealot. I would argue that WAR LIve was somewhat more balanced than ror at rr 80 max and with tovl sets & tombs but without those bugged talismans i mentioned earlier. There are ofc things that ROR has made better about balance balance espesially comparing to rr 100 Live WAR,much more so.

Edit; Btw for all WE's i accidentally posted prove about kiss double proc on finisher hits (that's why all we finisher hits 2 times) and kiss dmg happening before skill dmg. 1min52sec you can see when using heart render toxin and looking combat log kiss of agony does 270 dmg (106 mitigated) HRT first hit dmg after that kiss of agony does 270 dmg (106) mitigated and another HRT hit. That happens on same second on combat log + imo it would be important to make welf kisses (and other career mechanic dmg procs) to function like this in ROR as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUYjQ_HQ2xA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Wwu76p0qA8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1gY0fqShX0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPw6K_MGEXY
Last edited by Sinisterror on Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
"To clarify, me asking to developers to go test their own changes is not sign of toxicity or anger, but a sign of hope that the people punching in the numbers remain aware of potential consequences and test their own changes"-Teefz

ashton007
Posts: 380

Re: Dragon's Talon

Post#33 » Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:12 pm

Sinisterror wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:35 pm
normanis wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:45 pm in 1 video jackalinhat spamed quake stunned 3 order and spamed ravage killed 1 by 1. would be prety cool to make sm do same 1k avarage crit from some sm abilities would be welcome.
p.s i have feeling all post is to buff dragons talon not nerf.
He says first 30 seconds that point is just to show dmg nothing else and also later shows focused offense dmg. Besides i was saying how different and how much superior CS is or was, u can see it proccing on enemy all the time on that video, 10 sec tactic that refreshes itself cannot miss it. i didnt talk about dmg at all.is not relevant now when talking about 10 second -25 % DMG DEBUFF that refreshes itself when chosen crits on ANY direct dmg ability and was maybe the best counter for slayers/rampage and +15% allies heal aura. Did that heal aura also nerf enemy -15% dont remember. Also chosen used to do much more dmg than what jackal does in that video, like SM used to have melee absorb bellow + 500+ armour buff and -5disrupt that stacked with potion and at some point, quite early there SM used to have great absorbs and very deadly dots, and lots of them. Even in SnB some SM's had very nice dmg.

Im not saying all that shhould be brought back, but somethings like absorb bellow and snare changed to 9 sec spirit dot would be perfect combo for me to be on ROR because live had both offense procs on defensive gear and vice versa. This really opens so much versatility/uniqueness, all classes had probably like at least 7 more proc options just from weapons from T4 quests, cityinstance/pve. And none of that is counting any LOTD or rr 100 stuff. Imo best WPN Proc and overtuned a bit that should be replaced in RoR : D was Twanga o'da'rampage for SH that had 10 % on hit to get 12%crit and 18% critical dmg. Espesially overtuned when only classes that got more crit/critdmg procs (20+%DMG and 10% Crit) on sovereign gear was SH/SW and MAGUS/ENGI.

Here's few other live videos from same time which is rr 80 and sove sets for reference and BLORC dmg used to be insane and the welf dmg as well. BTW if someone knows about good WELF video before they were given ranged finishers i would love to see that so send me link. And these video's like chosen are all just about dmg so they are showing big hits but they are very squishy. i remember doing some scs against and with that blorc that is on 1 video ive linked. Viable zealot dmg is my fave because that is so far from what it's now : D Uniqueness is so important like WL being Able to jump on keep walls and be the only class (except morale 2 sm) that can do that. WL's were so good at what they were supposed to do, kill fast & kill goblins, their natural predator that Squigherder & Shaman dont have anymore.

There was awesome sc team; FO parvun was guarded by snb chosen and parvun was guarding melee dok and 2h bg that was guarding another dps dok + 1 heal zealot or heal dok. That party did wreck every sc they ever did probably=) Nice found 1 video marauder duels of same time rr 80 max, who beats me in that 2 times, and i remember when he put that out i was like dude i won like 20-2 show 1 vic pls but now its fun to see! Also i so miss viable dmg dps zealot. I would argue that WAR LIve was somewhat more balanced than ror at rr 80 max and with tovl sets & tombs but without those bugged talismans i mentioned earlier. There are ofc things that ROR has made better about balance balance espesially comparing to rr 100 Live WAR,much more so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUYjQ_HQ2xA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Wwu76p0qA8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1gY0fqShX0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPw6K_MGEXY
So then the solution is to not let CS refresh itself? Instead of remove it from the game??? Like they did with pretty much everything else!? Lol but also you can keep dragons talon up 100% time if you’re quick and regardless of what you say it’s not ever a bad use of a global, even if you only hit the top DD with it.

ashton007
Posts: 380

Re: Dragon's Talon

Post#34 » Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:16 pm

Sinisterror wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:13 pm
ashton007 wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 7:02 am
Aethilmar wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:22 pm

Well if you guys want to discuss this in the context of making the SM as effective a tank as a Chosen then I'm totally down for that conversation.
Group absorb/heal/damage reduction/ cool down reduction for your entire party isn’t enough?? I’m just saying it doesn’t make sense to leave CS out of the game any longer with SM having the same Basic ability.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClRtebJfGtM

If you are comparing Dragon's talon to CS i mean come on : DD Check on the video how different things we are talking about. CS lasts 10 second and have no icd so it can refresh itself + Chosen having Rending Blade 5 sec cooldown so it was so easy to spread it aoe espesially since it refreshes itself. Also didnt Quake use to have like 65 feet range ? Imagine 9 sec stagger on enemies(this nerf was good but 4.5 sec at least 3 sec nah) And probably at least 6 of those 9 have CS and as soon as they attack and break stagger probably all 9 will have it.

These skills are comparable only by -25% dmg. Everything else is ridicls. Also chosen debuffs all nearby him and buff all party members. Even if Dragon's talon was usable in every stance it still would be so bad comparing because you cannot debuff or buff or do anything else but keep DT up.
That video is from 2010 before the str nerf to chosen. Chosen doesn’t gain maximum effectiveness from the str stat anymore it’s been nerfed into dog poo. SM is the only tank that can kill like that nowadays. But I guess we can pretend knights getting the chosen ap aura and SM getting crippling strikes is just... not order bias?

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diegomess
Posts: 216

Re: Dragon's Talon

Post#35 » Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:37 pm

Damn jackal doing what a true chosen of tzeentch would do, now we all are unchosens forgotten by the gods... honestly why not bring those tactics back but adjust them, and bring oppression back to 2h i mean is a 13points ability, the armor buff doesnt stack with pots anyways, you have to parry first and u get 15% damage reduc...... wait nvm that means knights would get that OP mini m4 vigilance 50% dmg reduc with just pressing a button lol
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sogeou
Posts: 412

Re: Dragon's Talon

Post#36 » Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:11 pm

No reason to add / change anything new with the Chosen. Dev's said they are doing a full change of the class. So, I am hoping they get stuck with something like the SM's where they having to use their buffs via GCD instead of doing nothing but spam dps. IB,SM, BO,BG all have to work to use group buffs and spend GCD's meaning less dps. Once the new system comes to the chosen, going to be lots of tears.

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wachlarz
Posts: 798

Re: Dragon's Talon

Post#37 » Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:27 pm

sogeou wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:11 pm No reason to add / change anything new with the Chosen. Dev's said they are doing a full change of the class. So, I am hoping they get stuck with something like the SM's where they having to use their buffs via GCD instead of doing nothing but spam dps. IB,SM, BO,BG all have to work to use group buffs and spend GCD's meaning less dps. Once the new system comes to the chosen, going to be lots of tears.
BO and SM make more dmg then Chosen, dont know about Bg and Ib. So like U write they lose dps by making buffus/debuffs and still make more dmg then Chosen. So buff chosen or nerf other.

CytheX
Posts: 105

Re: Dragon's Talon

Post#38 » Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:48 pm

Dragon talon last 4 sec, need to be reapplied only on perfect stance, doing that u can't just add blurring shock end ED, and in 2h build u cant take the aoe tattic unless u give up the kd the bubble and the good spirit debuff, in top of that 2h sm can't punt like a chosen. The old CS was proccing on crit on every skill even aoe was almost 100% uptime leaving the chosen free to do whatever he wanted, not really the same case of Sm.

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sogeou
Posts: 412

Re: Dragon's Talon

Post#39 » Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:38 pm

wachlarz wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:27 pm
BO and SM make more dmg then Chosen, dont know about Bg and Ib. So like U write they lose dps by making buffus/debuffs and still make more dmg then Chosen. So buff chosen or nerf other.
You talk about them doing more damage, but SM/BO can't even touch a Chosen in a 1 v 1. So, that just shows you how useless that extra damage is. Chosen does more than enough damage along with how tanky they are in a full dps spec. While SM/BO / BG are pretty easy to kill while they try to DPS tank. We won't even talk about knights.

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normanis
Posts: 1302
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Re: Dragon's Talon

Post#40 » Wed Aug 04, 2021 10:00 am

Sinisterror wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:35 pm
normanis wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:45 pm in 1 video jackalinhat spamed quake stunned 3 order and spamed ravage killed 1 by 1. would be prety cool to make sm do same 1k avarage crit from some sm abilities would be welcome.
p.s i have feeling all post is to buff dragons talon not nerf.
He says first 30 seconds that point is just to show dmg nothing else and also later shows focused offense dmg. Besides i was saying how different and how much superior CS is or was, u can see it proccing on enemy all the time on that video, 10 sec tactic that refreshes itself cannot miss it. i didnt talk about dmg at all.is not relevant now when talking about 10 second -25 % DMG DEBUFF that refreshes itself when chosen crits on ANY direct dmg ability and was maybe the best counter for slayers/rampage and +15% allies heal aura. Did that heal aura also nerf enemy -15% dont remember. Also chosen used to do much more dmg than what jackal does in that video, like SM used to have melee absorb bellow + 500+ armour buff and -5disrupt that stacked with potion and at some point, quite early there SM used to have great absorbs and very deadly dots, and lots of them. Even in SnB some SM's had very nice dmg.

Im not saying all that shhould be brought back, but somethings like absorb bellow and snare changed to 9 sec spirit dot would be perfect combo for me to be on ROR because live had both offense procs on defensive gear and vice versa. This really opens so much versatility/uniqueness, all classes had probably like at least 7 more proc options just from weapons from T4 quests, cityinstance/pve. And none of that is counting any LOTD or rr 100 stuff. Imo best WPN Proc and overtuned a bit that should be replaced in RoR : D was Twanga o'da'rampage for SH that had 10 % on hit to get 12%crit and 18% critical dmg. Espesially overtuned when only classes that got more crit/critdmg procs (20+%DMG and 10% Crit) on sovereign gear was SH/SW and MAGUS/ENGI.

Here's few other live videos from same time which is rr 80 and sove sets for reference and BLORC dmg used to be insane and the welf dmg as well. BTW if someone knows about good WELF video before they were given ranged finishers i would love to see that so send me link. And these video's like chosen are all just about dmg so they are showing big hits but they are very squishy. i remember doing some scs against and with that blorc that is on 1 video ive linked. Viable zealot dmg is my fave because that is so far from what it's now : D Uniqueness is so important like WL being Able to jump on keep walls and be the only class (except morale 2 sm) that can do that. WL's were so good at what they were supposed to do, kill fast & kill goblins, their natural predator that Squigherder & Shaman dont have anymore.

There was awesome sc team; FO parvun was guarded by snb chosen and parvun was guarding melee dok and 2h bg that was guarding another dps dok + 1 heal zealot or heal dok. That party did wreck every sc they ever did probably=) Nice found 1 video marauder duels of same time rr 80 max, who beats me in that 2 times, and i remember when he put that out i was like dude i won like 20-2 show 1 vic pls but now its fun to see! Also i so miss viable dmg dps zealot. I would argue that WAR LIve was somewhat more balanced than ror at rr 80 max and with tovl sets & tombs but without those bugged talismans i mentioned earlier. There are ofc things that ROR has made better about balance balance espesially comparing to rr 100 Live WAR,much more so.

Edit; Btw for all WE's i accidentally posted prove about kiss double proc on finisher hits (that's why all we finisher hits 2 times) and kiss dmg happening before skill dmg. 1min52sec you can see when using heart render toxin and looking combat log kiss of agony does 270 dmg (106 mitigated) HRT first hit dmg after that kiss of agony does 270 dmg (106) mitigated and another HRT hit. That happens on same second on combat log + imo it would be important to make welf kisses (and other career mechanic dmg procs) to function like this in ROR as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUYjQ_HQ2xA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Wwu76p0qA8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1gY0fqShX0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPw6K_MGEXY
about 100rr 1shoting low geared warlord maby (56-61) , well i answer what penril told me , those 100 rr gears wheretoo powerfull . ror also 1shot ppl (recent slayer stream guarded from full hp get down to 0 and he has 8-9k hp)later it was bug.
sm got heavaly nerfed ;-( while chosen got his spirit damage ;-( here in ror
i countered bubble sm and their bubbles absorb all snares and stuns knocks and so on. lol
p.s watching how pawrun deal 2k crit average without u wot and ather buffs like deal more damge from tree hit combo 0.75(live version) sec to 0,65sec (ror version) faster and bigger damage , and than look how ror black orcs need buff seems black orc become bad players, so they got buff or asked for buffs. who knows how they got it. while sm got as dps only nerfs and 1 recent buff ww.
ww was counter sorc rotation on live seems here u can spam on sorc ww no rotation is broken. atleast i heard it in guild , live warhammer guild.
my bad- tree hit combo live was 0.85 and ror has 0.75 (was it changed because i remmebred it hited hard and in 3 sec every sec 0.65 hit )
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