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12 Man Cities

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Justina
Posts: 46

Re: 12 Man Cities

Post#11 » Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:15 pm

Signed. Would love to see 12vs12 cities. Id actually prefer to be that the default.

For me 12vs12 is the most balanced setup and most fun to play.

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Stophy22
Posts: 443

Re: 12 Man Cities

Post#12 » Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:34 pm

Dabbart wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:51 pm
Stophy22 wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:11 am
Dabbart wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:42 am

But we already see many cities with no instances till the 5min mark.
Wonder why this is and what possible suggestion could help stop this from happening...
Dodging. Its pretty clear at times too. Which is what 12man Qing would assist. No need to ever face a 24organized again.

Edit: Is there a system where 12v12 couldnt be used to dodge, or "steal" instances from 24man wbs? Im not a big fan of the "X minutes to form, and X set of instances created with whats available" but maybe it is the best answer.

If you consider organized 24 getting matched against organized 12 at 5-10minutes left because there are no 24's to fight as dodging then I don't think the issue is "dodging" in this definition of the word. There are actually no 24 stacks to fight against so it pulls 2 rando 12's to face the 24stack (or 12/6/6 or whatever)

The 24stack can easily split into 2 if they don't get instance pop by x minutes but sadly the 12stack cannot manifest 12 other nerds of equal quality and dedication at the snap of ones fingers.

I believe the system where 12v12 couldnt be used to dodge or steal instances from the 24man is the reality where the game's pop supports multiple 24man instances (EU prime) and during lower pop hours like NA prime it should switch to a 12 priority que.
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Dabbart
Posts: 2122

Re: 12 Man Cities

Post#13 » Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:07 pm

What? Yes I do consider that dodging. Because shortly after that 24man gets 12s 6s and pugs a 24 on the other side will que. We've seen this, via public streams multiple times. you don't fill up or que until 1-2 instances have popped, so you can guarantee you don't get an org wb. That is called dodging. And allowing however many 12man cities to pop while that 24man is waiting, will mean the 24man gets to face solo PUGs and 6mans, or not get a que at all. The few times you see groups that want 24v24 organized, you will see a few early instances pop. But that's it. And generally, once Marc's wb gets a pop, instances come enmass.

Edit: the colloquial you. Not you personally.

That's my point, not that one is better, or harder, or easier to fill slots. It's that a full 24man WB could NOT get a pop, because people wanted 12v12. That is a problem imo. One that you don't seem to acknowledge or have an answer for. Other than, tell the full WB to split in 2 and hope each 12man is balanced, has a vocal leader, has a vocal MA, etc. Instead of the organized WB that they WANT to play as/with.

If the 12man wants to que as 12, they do so knowing that they will be playing in a PUG city. That is what PUG means, Pick Up Group. You are hoping that 12 others are somewhat similarly skilled rather than using /5 to recruit and build a balanced WB.

I get it. Most randoms kinda suck. And the old playerbase has mostly moved on. But Cities are designed for 24v24, that was the intention of their creation on this server. But here's a strange thought. Instead of expecting "12 other nerds of equal quality and dedication at the snap of ones fingers." openly recruit and train newbies. Expand your normal 6man/12man groups to include others and train/teach them in full 24WBs.

Or the server can continue City Logging in the same small groups, and wondering why there are no skilled/competitive people to find in /5.

Edit: if a asking a full WB to split in order to get a pop is acceptable, then why not have your 12man split and help fill up other WBs? Or merge with other 6man/12mans?
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BluIzLucky
Posts: 109

Re: 12 Man Cities

Post#14 » Sat Jul 24, 2021 5:51 am

Think 12 or 18 man should only happen to start city with leftovers.

As Lords already adjust health based on players, hopefully the only code change needed is allowing the instance to start 12v12 or 18v18.

And yeah.. dodging is definitely a thing, a lot of 24/12 mans will do a calculation on how many cities will pop and only join after it's deemed "safe".
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