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Motivating defenders to fight against the odds (Keep sieges, Forts, Cities)

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Koryu199X
Posts: 117

Re: Motivating defenders to fight against the odds (Keep sieges, Forts, Cities)

Post#21 » Tue Dec 28, 2021 6:11 pm

A simple idea that could be introduced to support with defenders is provide them with better tools for defending a fort/keep. For instance players could place claymores, these would be similar to engi mines but do large dot damage with a snare. The war machines do more damage and the more AAO the more damage they do, players can brace the gate. By capping the flags this again buffs the keep door and the Lord, also AAO again increases the Lords damage. Again the issue here is defenders receiving the support they need to actually defend a keep.

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drbaker
Posts: 29

Re: Motivating defenders to fight against the odds (Keep sieges, Forts, Cities)

Post#22 » Tue Jan 04, 2022 2:13 pm

So now into my third week of playing this game. Have seen maybe twice in a zone where there has been equal numbers. 90% of the time order have more players, sometimes even 3x the number of destro and are just walking through zones with next to no opposition. I have even seen a few times where destro don't even have half the number of order in forts. People complaining in chat that it is not worth spending 45 mins defending a fort for 1 medal.

I can understand why people don't want to play destro just for every zone to be lost without anything you can do about it. Would it not be possible to bolster the side that has less players to make it at least possible to have a chance to defend a zone? I know it would be hard to balance but it does seem like something would need to be done.

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Rubius
Developer
Posts: 301

Re: Motivating defenders to fight against the odds (Keep sieges, Forts, Cities)

Post#23 » Wed Jan 05, 2022 2:59 pm

Koryu199X wrote: Tue Dec 28, 2021 6:11 pm A simple idea that could be introduced to support with defenders is provide them with better tools for defending a fort/keep. For instance players could place claymores, these would be similar to engi mines but do large dot damage with a snare. The war machines do more damage and the more AAO the more damage they do, players can brace the gate. By capping the flags this again buffs the keep door and the Lord, also AAO again increases the Lords damage. Again the issue here is defenders receiving the support they need to actually defend a keep.
This is definitely an interesting idea, and I feel like some of these concepts could be really useful.
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drbaker wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 2:13 pm So now into my third week of playing this game. Have seen maybe twice in a zone where there has been equal numbers. 90% of the time order have more players, sometimes even 3x the number of destro and are just walking through zones with next to no opposition. I have even seen a few times where destro don't even have half the number of order in forts. People complaining in chat that it is not worth spending 45 mins defending a fort for 1 medal.
Exactly. Highlighted in red the part that this all boils down to.

Fighting against the odds right now is not just less motivating for players, it's seen as punishing, and a huge waste of time to spend 30-40+ minutes for a single medallion, less bags, and worse bags than the side with overwhelming numbers gets.

Lack of player motivation = less numbers
Less numbers = Much more likely to lose

And from this, the cycle continues. In some cases, people will even swap sides to the bigger realm prior to the fort - and I can't blame them. 400% more rewards + possible free invader piece is a huge difference.

If we want to see players showing up to defend against the odds, it has to be worth their time.

40-45+ minutes for a single medallion is simply not enough right now.

MonkeyHead
Posts: 47

Re: Motivating defenders to fight against the odds (Keep sieges, Forts, Cities)

Post#24 » Wed Jan 05, 2022 7:58 pm

It's almost as if the rewards aren't the issue here. It's almost like one of the realms is balanced in a way that the game makes defending a fort a losing proposition unless they outnumber the attacker 3 to 1. bribing people to play a game mode where they know they will lose seems weird instead of just fixing it so gameplay, not faction determines the outcome of any fight.

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Rubius
Developer
Posts: 301

Re: Motivating defenders to fight against the odds (Keep sieges, Forts, Cities)

Post#25 » Thu Jan 06, 2022 1:00 am

MonkeyHead wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 7:58 pm It's almost as if the rewards aren't the issue here. It's almost like one of the realms is balanced in a way that the game makes defending a fort a losing proposition unless they outnumber the attacker 3 to 1. bribing people to play a game mode where they know they will lose seems weird instead of just fixing it so gameplay, not faction determines the outcome of any fight.
I agree with you that there is no perfect balance between realms, as will always be the case with a non-mirrored style game like this.

That said, I have full sov characters on both realms. I've led warbands for both victories and losses, on both sides, as attacker and defender, and with full queues on each team.

If each team has a queue, there's never a guaranteed victor just based on realm. It usually boils down to:

- How many organized warbands does each side have?
- Are the warbands working together and communicating effectively?
- Do at least some warbands have strong / well-geared players working together?

If the answer to all three of those is yes, you've got a decent chance of winning, whichever side you're on.

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Koryu199X
Posts: 117

Re: Motivating defenders to fight against the odds (Keep sieges, Forts, Cities)

Post#26 » Thu Jan 06, 2022 5:46 pm

Thinking about AAO the buff should perhaps once over a certain threshold it increases the damage that players do. The aim of this would be to dissuade one side from simply zerging as there would be a chance that the outnumbered side could get a good number of kills make a small difference and with the boost to renown get more. Also AAO should increase loot drops. These tweaks would hopefully again dissuade zeroing but encourage players to look for the sweet spots between the extremes.

pvprangergod
Suspended
Posts: 171

Re: Motivating defenders to fight against the odds (Keep sieges, Forts, Cities)

Post#27 » Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:12 am

Koryu199X wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 5:46 pm Thinking about AAO the buff should perhaps once over a certain threshold it increases the damage that players do. The aim of this would be to dissuade one side from simply zerging as there would be a chance that the outnumbered side could get a good number of kills make a small difference and with the boost to renown get more. Also AAO should increase loot drops. These tweaks would hopefully again dissuade zeroing but encourage players to look for the sweet spots between the extremes.
its bad practice to lower stats.

if anything there should be a change to morale. for example if you are on smaller side and you get a kill, then you get more morale. so that means you can build morale fast from killing people. also problem is how to measure who is smaller side, is it zone wide or only within 100 feet of the fight occurring. because that will be unfair if in a 1v1 one person has an advantage just because there happens to be a zerg half way across the map.

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tazdingo
Posts: 1199

Re: Motivating defenders to fight against the odds (Keep sieges, Forts, Cities)

Post#28 » Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:51 pm

it's too hard to get into a besieged keep. would be nice if there was a way to fly outside of supps. maybe having a certain amount of contrib in a zone would allow you to fly to a keep, so people who've been fighting there for hours dont get locked out of the def but similarly xrealmers cant just pile in for free

- bha got nerfed i dont get why people are complaining about order op, they are not. i say this as destro lifer

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Koryu199X
Posts: 117

Re: Motivating defenders to fight against the odds (Keep sieges, Forts, Cities)

Post#29 » Mon Feb 07, 2022 7:31 pm

Agree totally with what you said about moral, a way round this, would be to have such a buff only available in the keep or 30 feet of an objective flag.

Garamore
Posts: 397

Re: Motivating defenders to fight against the odds (Keep sieges, Forts, Cities)

Post#30 » Mon Feb 07, 2022 10:09 pm

Already too easy to defend a keep/fort. If you aren't in then its either your own fault or you have been stopped by the other team. If you are late to a keep it can be tough but you cant make it easier to defend when they already have all the advantages.
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