RvR, AAO and incentive for actual fights

[Koryu199X]

I think a sensible lockout to sort out X-realming should and has to be on the cards, 24 hours seems reasonable. I laughed when it was mentioned about a how a six man can support the keep siege by stopping late comers to a keep, I'm laughing here mainly because earlier this afternoon I saw an order 6 man zerg one black orc in dragonwake outside the destro w.c. and the keep was zero stars, oh and they were all carrying supps as well, you can't tell me that's A. stopping late comers to a siege and B. not zerging one person. Also Order had the Covenant of Flame so C why was a group of Order running to the destro w.c. laden with supps? Answers on a postcard please. I do agree that player attitudes are an issue. Perhaps as I keep suggesting there needs to be additional ways to defend a keep/siege a keep. Certainly if there was more to do at a keep that could spice up the sieges. In the past 6 months only 2 keep sieges have been up to the standard.

[don775]

With respect to the people trying to make this a Destro vs Order issue, it isn't. The numbers advantage varies with time of day and more broadly over time as well. The pattern of conflict avoidance for maximum rewards does not though.

This is why you have PvD
This is why you have city queue dodging.
This is also why you had YOLO ranked SC queue stacking.
This is why you have PUG SC queue stacking.

Basically tying valuable (read power increasing) rewards to "end game" content will always breed this kind of behavior.

Seriously?
Whenever one faction lack players of different careers we up with broken meta, uneven scenarios and unfair RvR, that turns people off or to opt for better alternatives - this is meta.

Time peaks also prove server is declining because - you name it. Tier distribution is extremely uneven during the remaining 20 hrs.

Seriously. Most people chase rewards not the "the meta" and people are drifting away b/c they have their characters fully geared or the path to progress no longer worth it to them anymore. If they introduced 9X gear you would see the population come back in droves. And you'd still see all the problems mentioned as people chased that gear.

"meta" is opting out to the "optimal" option as a result of bad changes or lack of balance altogether that drives people to do that in the first place.

You are contradicting yourself because you are convinced the game is balanced and that numbers dont push people out, but it does.

Would you think a 30 vs 70 is a fight worth fighting? (win-lose, doesnt matter)

[Aethilmar]

"meta" is opting out to the "optimal" option as a result of bad changes or lack of balance altogether that drives people to do that in the first place.

You are contradicting yourself because you are convinced the game is balanced and that numbers dont push people out, but it does.

Would you think a 30 vs 70 is a fight worth fighting? (win-lose, doesnt matter)

I'm not contradicting I just didn't want to write a full essay on it so took certain things to be shared knowledge. But, yes, the meta chasers leaving has a knock on effect to a particular side's popularity b/c they tend to be the most "hard core" and move the campaign along. The zerg pop does tend to follow the meta chasers.

However, in RvR in particular it is more about numbers and organization than any particular meta. Despite the recent dominance of Order, when Destro wants to push for Altdorf that side is perfectly capable of doing so. As a matter of fact Altdorf was on farm mode for just over a week b/c the organized folks were running on Destro and they pushed even IF (and that is a big if intentionally) the current meta does not favor Destro.

And, to answer your question, yes I do all the time ... solo ... and on tanks and heals not just on ganker dps. I am an AAO junkie and an altaholic. It motivates me to head into the lake when things are dire.

But I have zerged enough to know the rewards are waaaaay better over there for less effort (at least for soloists). And I'm pretty sure something changed in the most recent patch for how contribution is determined on the AAO side to make it even harder to get a bag roll now which will, of course, feed into the problem as described.

[don775]

"meta" is opting out to the "optimal" option as a result of bad changes or lack of balance altogether that drives people to do that in the first place.

You are contradicting yourself because you are convinced the game is balanced and that numbers dont push people out, but it does.

Would you think a 30 vs 70 is a fight worth fighting? (win-lose, doesnt matter)

I'm not contradicting I just didn't want to write a full essay on it so took certain things to be shared knowledge. But, yes, the meta chasers leaving has a knock on effect to a particular side's popularity b/c they tend to be the most "hard core" and move the campaign along. The zerg pop does tend to follow the meta chasers.

However, in RvR in particular it is more about numbers and organization than any particular meta. Despite the recent dominance of Order, when Destro wants to push for Altdorf that side is perfectly capable of doing so. As a matter of fact Altdorf was on farm mode for just over a week b/c the organized folks were running on Destro and they pushed even IF (and that is a big if intentionally) the current meta does not favor Destro.

And, to answer your question, yes I do all the time ... solo ... and on tanks and heals not just on ganker dps. I am an AAO junkie and an altaholic. It motivates me to head into the lake when things are dire.

But I have zerged enough to know the rewards are waaaaay better over there for less effort (at least for soloists). And I'm pretty sure something changed in the most recent patch for how contribution is determined on the AAO side to make it even harder to get a bag roll now which will, of course, feed into the problem as described.

Well I see your point, I thought you'd say "fun" but I doubt you do that out of anything else you'd want to do since it is the only option other than ditching, which sucks too.

Meta could be fine as is, numbers and organization matter that's good because I dont complain about how rvr is played you misunderstand that part-
I'm saying the situation is that about 80% xrealm so its an easy win or masochistic fun because the game is funneling players poorly in the first place.

[czarusxD]

UK time its 550 Destro steamrolling vs 250 Order 10 to 12hrs per day.

Thing is that destro zerg doesnt achieve anything, because its usually t2/t3 zones, sometimes pushing up to order t4 zones and maybe getting 1 fort locked, very rarely tho since destro would rather make 3/4* keeps there for "easy defense bags", by this time order starts logging in again and starts pushing city. Since all the zones are already in t4 they dont have to spend too much time to get there, which is why IC is so common recently.

[Phantasm]

I see much better solution with fort like caps on realm sides. If lets say there is a 400 order rank 40 logged in and only 200 destro, possible solve would be to put more order loggers on to queue system like in fort. Ofc it would require to determine which rank 40 is RVR flagged and which are doing pve or scenarios. Enabling log on underpopulated side any time without any lockout is totally healthy solution. But letting overpopulated side grow in bigger numbers seems like is not.

[mynban]

I think a sensible lockout to sort out X-realming should and has to be on the cards, 24 hours seems reasonable. I laughed when it was mentioned about a how a six man can support the keep siege by stopping late comers to a keep, I'm laughing here mainly because earlier this afternoon I saw an order 6 man zerg one black orc in dragonwake outside the destro w.c. and the keep was zero stars, oh and they were all carrying supps as well, you can't tell me that's A. stopping late comers to a siege and B. not zerging one person. Also Order had the Covenant of Flame so C why was a group of Order running to the destro w.c. laden with supps? Answers on a postcard please. I do agree that player attitudes are an issue. Perhaps as I keep suggesting there needs to be additional ways to defend a keep/siege a keep. Certainly if there was more to do at a keep that could spice up the sieges. In the past 6 months only 2 keep sieges have been up to the standard.

Yea that part made me laugh as well. It is the dream of what the game could be maybe, but absolutely not what its reality. Reality is that all groups (without exception) looks for a smaller group; whether that is a WB looking for 12man, or a 6man hunting solo runners. Noone wants a challenge where odds are 50-50.

Even SCs are suffering from that because of premades rolfstomping pugs and stop queueing when they face another premade, but that is an entirely different topic. People give a lot of **** to WoW players here, but the funny thing is RoR players behave exactly the same way Alterac Valley zergs; avoiding the other zerg and trying to hunt down that one stray.

[Przepraszam]

I think a sensible lockout to sort out X-realming should and has to be on the cards, 24 hours seems reasonable. I laughed when it was mentioned about a how a six man can support the keep siege by stopping late comers to a keep, I'm laughing here mainly because earlier this afternoon I saw an order 6 man zerg one black orc in dragonwake outside the destro w.c. and the keep was zero stars, oh and they were all carrying supps as well, you can't tell me that's A. stopping late comers to a siege and B. not zerging one person. Also Order had the Covenant of Flame so C why was a group of Order running to the destro w.c. laden with supps? Answers on a postcard please. I do agree that player attitudes are an issue. Perhaps as I keep suggesting there needs to be additional ways to defend a keep/siege a keep. Certainly if there was more to do at a keep that could spice up the sieges. In the past 6 months only 2 keep sieges have been up to the standard.

Yea that part made me laugh as well. It is the dream of what the game could be maybe, but absolutely not what its reality. Reality is that all groups (without exception) looks for a smaller group; whether that is a WB looking for 12man, or a 6man hunting solo runners. Noone wants a challenge where odds are 50-50.

Even SCs are suffering from that because of premades rolfstomping pugs and stop queueing when they face another premade, but that is an entirely different topic. People give a lot of **** to WoW players here, but the funny thing is RoR players behave exactly the same way Alterac Valley zergs; avoiding the other zerg and trying to hunt down that one stray.

Im a solo pugger since almost from the beginning when i joined this server, and it was always about organized groups/wb farming soloers/puggers, nobody wants to have even fights ( look at ranked - both solo and especially groupped are dead). On top of that they removed spawning inside the keep for defenders for quicker campaign progress and now, there are rarely any serious defences, people just moving to next zone before keep is taken to ''score'' contribution. A had alot more fun before in this game, and i hope devs will try to sort this out ( bring back fun keep seiges /defences instead of pve doorhammer pls)

[abezverkhiy]

Many of us have SoR addon. Knowing the numbers on each side works against good quality RvR.

I believe SoR numbers option should be blocked.

[h34rtbrok3n]

I have been playing on and off since the server started, never seriously, just hanging around with some friends and nothing "endgame".

When I came back three weeks ago, I deleted all of my characters to start fresh and re-learn the game again, since it was long ago that I played for the last time.

I´m playing Destro, I cannot talk about all game issues you all mention here, I will just tell you my personal experience:

I have been in many keep sieges since I came back, destro side, maybe like 12 or so in the last couple of weeks: Destro never won any keeps while I was in the warband.

I tried to level my characters in scenario and it was impossible because we were losing all mid tier scenarios , most of the time due to the lack of healers, so I had to turn to orvr to keep leveling up and geting renown: Not enough exp and not enough renown either because we were heavily outnumbered all the time.

I went to the official discord to look for options and ask the veteran players how I should level up my characters if I was losing all scenarios and orvr wasnt going very well either: Their answer varied from switching sides to "dont complain about scenario unbalance because if there was balance queues would be very slow".

Seeing this post and the replys makes me wonder if it´s really worth it to keep leveling and fighting because apparently it doesn´t get any better.

Hopefully DEVS will try to fix the issue with Destro side being "destroyed" all the time, because if I wanted uneven fights and unfairness, I wouldn´t login WAR, I would just sit down and watch the news.