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Is endgame PvP just zerging and keep-takes?

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Bloodmasked
Posts: 199

Re: Is endgame PvP just zerging and keep-takes?

Post#1 » Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:54 am

During off-peak (non-EU) time zone it is mostly just zerging and keep-takes, thats why I have basically retired for the past few months. Theres zero interest for me as a rr84 dok.

The last few weeks I played it was extremely hard to find groupmates, the people who did end up joining me were commonly bad/toxic, had boring playstyle (staring at keep doors/running supplies/not fighting) or just outright lied to me. For example, I wanted a witch elf to follow me around in city siege as a 6man group, they said they would, and then proceeded to never follow me or attack any of my targets. That happened the majority of times I made a group so I got bored of trying. Of course there are some times you get a good team and make alot of kills in a zone, but its alot of effort to set that up and sometimes the people who you wanna group with are just not online.

The thing that is really killing RoR is the fort->2nd fort->city siege campaign. (atleast in off-peak, when I typically play). They should definitely remove running supplies too cos they are just boring PVE non-sense.

Ranked is basically a complete joke since everyone wants to do "Solo Ranked", which makes zero sense in a team orientated game. Regular scenarios are also really scuffed, its not uncommon for people to just AFK at spawn and complain that the other side is an OP class, OP faction, or are cheating simply because they are in a group versus solo players.

TLDR: the current game doesn't suit people who play semi-seriously or hardcore, RoR seems to be mostly focused on casual and boring playstyles aka pugs.

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GamesBond
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Re: Is endgame PvP just zerging and keep-takes?

Post#2 » Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:10 am

browlciba wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:58 am
I was really excited to level up to 40, get some decent gear and jump into RvR and enjoy some 6v6, roaming, group fight, small fights, etc. - is this possible or is it so rare that my real only option is to zerg surf?

I get that this is a team based PvP game and I fully appreciate that. I'm just looking to engage in the small team scale side of things, less the big team side.
There are guilds that engage in small scale, roaming, premade SCs and avoid zerging. In this game you simply need to be with the people who have the same mindset as yours in order to enjoy it.

If you love hardcore warband plays, you need to join a guild that offers that. Casual premades won't do that.
If you love casual warband plays, you cannot be part of an organized guild and then simply losing your way or not following proper commands, bombs, etc.
If you're looking for constant small scale/SC premades, you will need a guild that do these.

There are plenty of guilds you can choose from, but there's always a different option then zerging. Now at the end of the day, there's one enemy keep on the map and once it is sieged, it becomes the most important hot spot on that whole map, which means you will need to join the zerg to push in and that's normal. You can't really push a keep with a group so what I mean to say is that it will always come down to pushing zones to get the bags, and pushing the zones requires the keep to be conquered, which requires a decent number of attackers vs defenders. It is how the game is designed, it is how the campaign moves forward.
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ravezaar
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Re: Is endgame PvP just zerging and keep-takes?

Post#3 » Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:23 am

I still do believe u should reward Fights/kills more and decrease rewards for Zone flips/Sieges and u should never ever get a reward if u NOT in the Zone when it flips.

But thats just my view on it. I know rewards has to be there to push Campaign forward but decrease it, promote fights, the end of the Campign is City wich is the worst part of Campaign a looter-shooter version of MMO wich many now avoid, many....

Otherwise i agree with Gamesbond its upto playerbase to make the fights and if u wanna Roam, Zerg, Solo aso...
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GamesBond
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Re: Is endgame PvP just zerging and keep-takes?

Post#4 » Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:04 pm

ravezaar wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:23 am
I still do believe u should reward Fights/kills more and decrease rewards for Zone flips/Sieges
We gathered enough feedback to prove that the RP nerf did not do its job and thus it was mostly reverted and it should go back to what it was this weekend. The revert happened 2 weeks ago as much as I remember.
ravezaar wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:23 am
and u should never ever get a reward if u NOT in the Zone when it flips.
That's an example to why RvR is hard to really fix. Your idea is heavily opposed by the guilds who constantly swap zones. Keeping players in the same zone until it flips is also zerg-promoting behavior which is also opposed by other players.

I'm not saying what you're saying is wrong or right, but I just wanted to take it as an example of why RvR changes are always the slowest.
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Wiede
Posts: 270

Re: Is endgame PvP just zerging and keep-takes?

Post#5 » Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:08 pm

Well, to be honest... your problem is being a healer.

Play a class that isn't that dependent on its teammates and can have fun solo or in PUG enviroment with its own decisions.
When you're dedicated to healing and your team don't want to do **** you're bored out really fast. Everything else solo viable can have fun e.g. around a keep while others stare at the keep doors.

mekal
Posts: 105

Re: Is endgame PvP just zerging and keep-takes?

Post#6 » Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:32 am

to be honest this seems like a reward vs time problem and i agree completely

players should not have to do rvr if they dont enjoy just because that is the content that offers "main" spec gear same with sc people should never be foreced into doing something that they wish they didnt have to that is just flat out bad design for any game private server or not

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tazdingo
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Re: Is endgame PvP just zerging and keep-takes?

Post#7 » Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:29 pm

endgame is what you make of it. this game is more sandboxy that people give it credit for, especially compared to live. theorycraft a build and try to make it work

though i do support getting main spec gear from scs, even if it takes a longer time than rvr. hell i'd take a 5/1 trade down on emblems to meds

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zulnam
Posts: 594

Re: Is endgame PvP just zerging and keep-takes?

Post#8 » Fri Sep 17, 2021 3:12 pm

ORvR, as in Open RvR, is a bit of an oxymoron. All RvR is open.

Generally, when saying ORvR in this game, you refer to Organised RvR. That is when a warband is following a leader, a main assist, running 2/2/2 groups and everyone is on discord. It's not random, as you've experienced, but calculated moves and flanks, looking for fights where you are outnumbered or equal 24v24 fights against other oWBs (organised warbands).

That's really the endgame. Pugging an RvR lake is the same content game-mechanic wise, but not the same experience, not the same player-made content; not endgame imo.

To give you an idea, here are some oRvR highlights i've experienced that come to mind:

* 24v24 warband dueling;
* retaking a lost keep in a zone where we had 80 AAO and keeping it for almost 10 minutes;
* got to a friendly keep overrun by a pug zerg, outnumbered 3 to 1, and wiped the entire enemy force
* many, many, pincer manouvers against enemy pug zerg fighting friendly pug zerg
* holding funnel in tunnels leading to underground keep in Black Crag against superior numbers, stopping enemy from getting to keep while our side was sieging
* obligatory mention of enemy zerg wipe using morale bomb; yeah not the most exciting experience for oWB players, but when you get it just right, and the entire frontline drops like flies... purple rain, purple rain...
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Bloodmasked
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Re: Is endgame PvP just zerging and keep-takes?

Post#9 » Sat Sep 18, 2021 3:45 am

GamesBond wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:04 pm
ravezaar wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:23 am
I still do believe u should reward Fights/kills more and decrease rewards for Zone flips/Sieges
We gathered enough feedback to prove that the RP nerf did not do its job and thus it was mostly reverted and it should go back to what it was this weekend. The revert happened 2 weeks ago as much as I remember.
ravezaar wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:23 am
and u should never ever get a reward if u NOT in the Zone when it flips.
That's an example to why RvR is hard to really fix. Your idea is heavily opposed by the guilds who constantly swap zones. Keeping players in the same zone until it flips is also zerg-promoting behavior which is also opposed by other players.

I'm not saying what you're saying is wrong or right, but I just wanted to take it as an example of why RvR changes are always the slowest.
its not hard to fix rvr, its just that nobody is trying to.

mynban
Posts: 88

Re: Is endgame PvP just zerging and keep-takes?

Post#10 » Sat Sep 18, 2021 5:46 am

Honest answer: Yes it is. Everyone is a gansta until they face an even powered enemy group, then they back off instead of fighting it out. It is exactly like alterac valley in WoW everyone belittles, 2 massive groups avoiding each other to the best of their abilities. Wbs here only going after the 6man or scatter 2/3pug wbs they see. 6man also only goes after duos or solo runners, they dont try to fight anything that resembles a challenge.

Then there is city where you cant zerg, but strong rr80+ full sov groups dodge the queue to avoid each others, and fight pugs instead.

Also there is solo ranked, where premades stack queue and join queue only when they know weak enemies are on the other side.

Until game stops giving rewards to winning fights that was decided even before first weapon is swung, that is how it will be. You can do what some of us do, and just roam solo/duo getting killed again and again; but getting few fun battles along the way. But know that game is designed to reward fighting battles where enemy never had a chance to begin with.

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