Is endgame PvP just zerging and keep-takes?

[Automation]

and ror team pretends that the community has never suggested any ways to fix rvr, instead focus on ranked solo which basically nobody wants or asked for

They just build 2 new cities while season 2 was dead after 2 weeks. It's just cheap to argue like that.

Who asked for citys tho?
The game is a mindless zerg fest, you cant argue otherwise really.
Since RoR has been live devs been spoonfeeding the pugs from the get go and annyone who oposes them gets silenced.
Who is even left from the real pvp players? Just a handfull maybe, the rest is gone.
Its bad decision on bad decision and thats just the truth.
But i can understand that they cater to the brown nosers, its there ' biggest pop '
They should have never touched war core mechanics and classess and turn RvR in to a fun fair for the brain dead.

[wargrimnir]

and ror team pretends that the community has never suggested any ways to fix rvr, instead focus on ranked solo which basically nobody wants or asked for

They just build 2 new cities while season 2 was dead after 2 weeks. It's just cheap to argue like that.

Who asked for citys tho?
The game is a mindless zerg fest, you cant argue otherwise really.
Since RoR has been live devs been spoonfeeding the pugs from the get go and annyone who oposes them gets silenced.
Who is even left from the real pvp players? Just a handfull maybe, the rest is gone.
Its bad decision on bad decision and thats just the truth.
But i can understand that they cater to the brown nosers, its there ' biggest pop '
They should have never touched war core mechanics and classess and turn RvR in to a fun fair for the brain dead.

Several million people over the years have asked for the cities to be finished and released. Around 400,000 people have registered accounts at ROR, the majority of them came, saw, and left, as their focus was not actually endless PvP, but rather an exploration of the fantasy world that we host.

Real PvP players have absolutely no problem with what we've released. Just the exceptionally entitled ones who whine incessantly, and are rightfully ignored the vast majority of the time. YOU are not directing what direction the game is developed in, WE are. If you don't like it, find a way to be respectful and constructive about your suggestions, and try to have a little consideration that not everything is going to revolve around you. The smaller a mindset you have towards what this game is allowed to encompass, the less you're going to be happy with. WAR, in our opinion, is the best RvR game on the market. But it's also a lot more than that. It's the old world of Warhammer to be explored and discovered, and in the instance of developing two released and long promised cities that, dwarf ahem, the existing ones, you're going to find a hell of a lot of pushback that whether we think our time was wasted or should have been spent elsewhere. Bluntly, **** right off. We're incredibly proud to have brought this into the world and delivered on a Mythic promise that was unlikely to ever see the light without us.

Optionally, failing this shift in attitude, find a better RvR game to play. Surely there's some professional developers just waiting for your top tier elite PvP karen perspective that they've never heard before and would just love to pick your brain about how to make their game what you imagine in your head right now.

If you feel like this response is directed at you because of your salt-laden take on why we didn't make more PvP focused stuff during the 3 year development cycle it took to get these cities released... We did. Since 2018 kids, that's how long it's taken. Go back and read every patch note since then. There's a limited number of people working on the game, we're not doing everything all at once, and OF COURSE, and OBVIOUSLY, we're going to continue working on RvR aspects of the game. Knock it off with the clown show antics.

[Automation]

They just build 2 new cities while season 2 was dead after 2 weeks. It's just cheap to argue like that.

Who asked for citys tho?
The game is a mindless zerg fest, you cant argue otherwise really.
Since RoR has been live devs been spoonfeeding the pugs from the get go and annyone who oposes them gets silenced.
Who is even left from the real pvp players? Just a handfull maybe, the rest is gone.
Its bad decision on bad decision and thats just the truth.
But i can understand that they cater to the brown nosers, its there ' biggest pop '
They should have never touched war core mechanics and classess and turn RvR in to a fun fair for the brain dead.

Several million people over the years have asked for the cities to be finished and released. Around 400,000 people have registered accounts at ROR, the majority of them came, saw, and left, as their focus was not actually endless PvP, but rather an exploration of the fantasy world that we host.

Real PvP players have absolutely no problem with what we've released. Just the exceptionally entitled ones who whine incessantly, and are rightfully ignored the vast majority of the time. YOU are not directing what direction the game is developed in, WE are. If you don't like it, find a way to be respectful and constructive about your suggestions, and try to have a little consideration that not everything is going to revolve around you. The smaller a mindset you have towards what this game is allowed to encompass, the less you're going to be happy with. WAR, in our opinion, is the best RvR game on the market. But it's also a lot more than that. It's the old world of Warhammer to be explored and discovered, and in the instance of developing two released and long promised cities that, dwarf ahem, the existing ones, you're going to find a hell of a lot of pushback that whether we think our time was wasted or should have been spent elsewhere. Bluntly, **** right off. We're incredibly proud to have brought this into the world and delivered on a Mythic promise that was unlikely to ever see the light without us.

Optionally, failing this shift in attitude, find a better RvR game to play. Surely there's some professional developers just waiting for your top tier elite PvP karen perspective that they've never heard before and would just love to pick your brain about how to make their game what you imagine in your head right now.

If you feel like this response is directed at you because of your salt-laden take on why we didn't make more PvP focused stuff during the 3 year development cycle it took to get these cities released... We did. Since 2018 kids, that's how long it's taken. Go back and read every patch note since then. There's a limited number of people working on the game, we're not doing everything all at once, and OF COURSE, and OBVIOUSLY, we're going to continue working on RvR aspects of the game. Knock it off with the clown show antics.

The WE are the devs YOU are the testers gets really old man.
Nobody is forcing you to make this server but that doesnt mean you have to feel offended by everything written you dont like.
Have some skin and learn to absorb some critisism now and then the same way you speak to youre player base.
You think that goes unnoticed?
Look at the numbers and how things are going, its not exactly going up isnt it?
Its easy to come with the same argument over and over tho.
You keep calling people uncivilized and small minded, butthurt karens but youre the one throwing the acusations tho.
Who even says im representing this so called ' elite epeen karen small minded player base' ?
Thats you who asume's that.
I just threw out my opinion, and the opinion i hear all around.
Keep doing you tho, Wargrimnir, no hard feelings. : )
Im still enjoying scenarios, if they pop atleast.

[Noslock]

Yes endgame is zergin mindlessy.Bring a char to 80 - gear it - move to alt - bring it to 80 - gear it - move to alt bring it to 80 - gear it and so on... until u run out of alts...Not much motivation to keep playing after 80 once u are fully geared unless u like the look of ur char or play in some kind of organized group/guild and like to kill pug plebs.

[cheepcheep]

I really like the new cities they are fantastic! and I was so happy to finally be able to see them in the game which I was dreaming of back when the game was live.

I have not played in quite a while since this recent cities update and before then I played but didnt last long maybe a month or less.

The main core issues are still present and becuase of that its hard to want to keep playing. I did make a rvr suggestion years ago on here but alas like many others who have suggested nothing major changes.

these are:
zerg rvr fiesta
pve supplies and keep pve
forts
current cities system
the currencey system
the whole rvr campagine system
items behind pve dungeons
ranked
premades in scenarios

I look forward to seeing more new players come to the server for the new cities but how long that will last I dont know, I wouldnt say the server population has been growing the previous two years. Having said all that its still great having this game around and being able to play it but some major priorities have been mis aligned.

this was the response from war grimner from one my rvr suggestion
Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:18 pm

"We are not interested in rebuilding the RvR campaign."

:/

[zulnam]

They just build 2 new cities while season 2 was dead after 2 weeks. It's just cheap to argue like that.

Who asked for citys tho?
The game is a mindless zerg fest, you cant argue otherwise really.
Since RoR has been live devs been spoonfeeding the pugs from the get go and annyone who oposes them gets silenced.
Who is even left from the real pvp players? Just a handfull maybe, the rest is gone.
Its bad decision on bad decision and thats just the truth.
But i can understand that they cater to the brown nosers, its there ' biggest pop '
They should have never touched war core mechanics and classess and turn RvR in to a fun fair for the brain dead.

Several million people over the years have asked for the cities to be finished and released. Around 400,000 people have registered accounts at ROR, the majority of them came, saw, and left, as their focus was not actually endless PvP, but rather an exploration of the fantasy world that we host.

Real PvP players have absolutely no problem with what we've released. Just the exceptionally entitled ones who whine incessantly, and are rightfully ignored the vast majority of the time. YOU are not directing what direction the game is developed in, WE are. If you don't like it, find a way to be respectful and constructive about your suggestions, and try to have a little consideration that not everything is going to revolve around you. The smaller a mindset you have towards what this game is allowed to encompass, the less you're going to be happy with. WAR, in our opinion, is the best RvR game on the market. But it's also a lot more than that. It's the old world of Warhammer to be explored and discovered, and in the instance of developing two released and long promised cities that, dwarf ahem, the existing ones, you're going to find a hell of a lot of pushback that whether we think our time was wasted or should have been spent elsewhere. Bluntly, **** right off. We're incredibly proud to have brought this into the world and delivered on a Mythic promise that was unlikely to ever see the light without us.

Optionally, failing this shift in attitude, find a better RvR game to play. Surely there's some professional developers just waiting for your top tier elite PvP karen perspective that they've never heard before and would just love to pick your brain about how to make their game what you imagine in your head right now.

If you feel like this response is directed at you because of your salt-laden take on why we didn't make more PvP focused stuff during the 3 year development cycle it took to get these cities released... We did. Since 2018 kids, that's how long it's taken. Go back and read every patch note since then. There's a limited number of people working on the game, we're not doing everything all at once, and OF COURSE, and OBVIOUSLY, we're going to continue working on RvR aspects of the game. Knock it off with the clown show antics.

Don't always see eye to eye with him, but have to say.

Spoiler:

Here it is, a celebration of perserverance, where the community is not given almost 3 days of X2 benefits, but also two new never-before released cities, the effort put into it, the dozens of hours of work, planning, to do this, for free, for a community, the effort to have it ready for a specific release date (WAR Birthday).

And you people can't even hold it for one week. One lousy week, just to shut it. Out of common courtesy for the people putting in the effort. To not piss on their parade, as one might put it. Even if you don't care or don't like the cities, you fail to put the low low effort of just saying "very nice, good job" and shutting up. For a week.

And it's one of the reasons RoR can't grow. Sure, the difficulty of development doesn't help, or the hard balance changes that come out of nowhere rattle people just trying to play the game, but imagine being a new player who never played WAR, and logging in and seeing all these bitter, whiny, witches, going at it after everybody. After the devs, after people trying to organise, after people switching sides, after people not putting in the effort, after people putting in too much effort. It can be a cesspool, a void of any basic manners. Sometimes it's the same over comms as well, just negativity and bitterness; but at least when it's over voice it's against people who aren't there. We still have that one, last, wall of decency. Not harassing someone when we can hear them; only when we can type to them. We still have that.

For now.

[GamesBond]

this was the response from war grimner from one my rvr suggestion
Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:18 pm

"We are not interested in rebuilding the RvR campaign."

:/

Rebuilding the campaign is totally different from either adjusting or enhancing it. There's surely no purpose to rebuild everything, that's how the game is after all. But there are plans to address some of the community's feedback. There will always be a zerg though, since there's one hot spot in every map, which is the keep siege - whatever we will do, the safe and most important spot for most players to consider camping is in-front/around the keep.

[Bloodmasked]

They just build 2 new cities while season 2 was dead after 2 weeks. It's just cheap to argue like that.

Who asked for citys tho?
The game is a mindless zerg fest, you cant argue otherwise really.
Since RoR has been live devs been spoonfeeding the pugs from the get go and annyone who oposes them gets silenced.
Who is even left from the real pvp players? Just a handfull maybe, the rest is gone.
Its bad decision on bad decision and thats just the truth.
But i can understand that they cater to the brown nosers, its there ' biggest pop '
They should have never touched war core mechanics and classess and turn RvR in to a fun fair for the brain dead.

Several million people over the years have asked for the cities to be finished and released. Around 400,000 people have registered accounts at ROR, the majority of them came, saw, and left, as their focus was not actually endless PvP, but rather an exploration of the fantasy world that we host.

Real PvP players have absolutely no problem with what we've released. Just the exceptionally entitled ones who whine incessantly, and are rightfully ignored the vast majority of the time. YOU are not directing what direction the game is developed in, WE are. If you don't like it, find a way to be respectful and constructive about your suggestions, and try to have a little consideration that not everything is going to revolve around you. The smaller a mindset you have towards what this game is allowed to encompass, the less you're going to be happy with. WAR, in our opinion, is the best RvR game on the market. But it's also a lot more than that. It's the old world of Warhammer to be explored and discovered, and in the instance of developing two released and long promised cities that, dwarf ahem, the existing ones, you're going to find a hell of a lot of pushback that whether we think our time was wasted or should have been spent elsewhere. Bluntly, **** right off. We're incredibly proud to have brought this into the world and delivered on a Mythic promise that was unlikely to ever see the light without us.

Optionally, failing this shift in attitude, find a better RvR game to play. Surely there's some professional developers just waiting for your top tier elite PvP karen perspective that they've never heard before and would just love to pick your brain about how to make their game what you imagine in your head right now.

If you feel like this response is directed at you because of your salt-laden take on why we didn't make more PvP focused stuff during the 3 year development cycle it took to get these cities released... We did. Since 2018 kids, that's how long it's taken. Go back and read every patch note since then. There's a limited number of people working on the game, we're not doing everything all at once, and OF COURSE, and OBVIOUSLY, we're going to continue working on RvR aspects of the game. Knock it off with the clown show antics.

pvpers who want to pvp are disrespectful ego-maniacs and should go play another game entirely because they are toxic elitists, thanks for your super constructive suggestion mr wargrimnir will we be seeing these changes implemented in 2 weeks?

[xoonerfree]

I was really excited to level up to 40, get some decent gear and jump into RvR and enjoy some 6v6, roaming, group fight, small fights, etc. - is this possible or is it so rare that my real only option is to zerg surf?

I get that this is a team based PvP game and I fully appreciate that. I'm just looking to engage in the small team scale side of things, less the big team side.

There are guilds that engage in small scale, roaming, premade SCs and avoid zerging. In this game you simply need to be with the people who have the same mindset as yours in order to enjoy it.

If you love hardcore warband plays, you need to join a guild that offers that. Casual premades won't do that.
If you love casual warband plays, you cannot be part of an organized guild and then simply losing your way or not following proper commands, bombs, etc.
If you're looking for constant small scale/SC premades, you will need a guild that do these.

There are plenty of guilds you can choose from, but there's always a different option then zerging. Now at the end of the day, there's one enemy keep on the map and once it is sieged, it becomes the most important hot spot on that whole map, which means you will need to join the zerg to push in and that's normal. You can't really push a keep with a group so what I mean to say is that it will always come down to pushing zones to get the bags, and pushing the zones requires the keep to be conquered, which requires a decent number of attackers vs defenders. It is how the game is designed, it is how the campaign moves forward.

Let community answer these questions please who don't have bias.

[Secrets]

Personal opinion here:

Don't expect the server staff to find the fun in the game for you.
I've had to take a backseat from this game's development because obsessing over it was eating me.

The game will never be balanced, and that is okay.

If you're expecting a PVP game like WAR to be balanced, you have the wrong expectations for a game. Games are meant to be fun.
If you're not having fun in a game, find the fun, or find it elsewhere.

As a developer I struggled to maintain a balance between fun and balance.
Some of the most fun I've had in WAR was not winning the zerg vs zerg engagements. It wasn't competing in Ranked PVP.

Know what I had a blast with? Taking 2-5 other people and winning against the odds with people I actually cared about.
It was hilarious, entertaining, and made me feel like I was playing a game worth playing.

My advice to new players, or those losing the 'fun', would be to chase what makes you happy in this game, or chase a different dream than this game.
Obsessing for months over whether or not something is balanced is not healthy. It drove me nuts.

I had more fun actually playing my White Lion in situations that it didn't fit in. Solo/Duo/Trio, sometimes without healers or tanks.

Then, I took up DPS AM. I found fun doing small man ORVR against Sov geared players who couldn't touch me because of the kiting potential of the class.

Those were fun activities and no amount of buffs/nerfs would change the fun I was having.

Even going to DPS AM, I had a blast because it was new and interesting. I'm sure I would have had even more fun playing Shaman, given that class' mobility.

The moment I stopped having fun is when I wondered about what my class didn't have and tried to get people, even internally, to agree with me about changing what currently is.


The team needs to adjust that mentality too. I don't think it's healthy to obsess over what people want you to do.

To the remaining devs: Cut the cord with the realm champions. Players know nothing more than you already know.
Keep 'balance' how it is, and add changes henceforth that seem cool or exciting to you or the community.

Players will always adjust. You're the new keepers of Warhammer Online; embrace that role and get creative with the full potential of what this game is, instead of exploring what currently is not.

I miss this project. RoR taught me some important truths that I didn't know I needed to discover.
Love you guys. Keep on keeping on.
<3