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Premade facerolling is a problem in SC

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Ekundu01
Posts: 306

Re: Premade facerolling is a problem in SC

Post#51 » Thu Sep 23, 2021 3:10 pm

The biggest problem this game faces when it come to balanced SCs isn't the premades but it is the mentality of the player base along with what gear you get from doing SCs. This game depends on the trifecta of Tank, dps and healers to function properly. It was designed around that group comp for making fair fights.

Unfortunately not everyone frequents the forums for information to play the role they are playing properly on top of Advice chat being full of miss information for new players. There is usually always a surplus of dps on top of players that think that tanks and healers are able to fill dps slots. This problem of tanks and healers acting as dps is further exacerbated by the gear you get from SCs is geared towards doing damage, while for dps it is a defensive set. This is a huge problem because most Tanks and healers even geared as dps are not a true dps. Dps that gear through SCs that are using the defensive gear cripple the damage they do for trading off more survival for less damage. When you compound all these issues into fighting a premade that actually has the right gear for the role they are playing you get screwed because you have tanks that think they are dps, healers that are not healing and playing as dps and dps that don't have the punching power to kill someone with 2 healers.

The only way you could make SCs fair is by making everyone dps and disable all role functions and just let everyone go slug it out. But even then you would get complaints of people using coms for assist trains and this cycle of premade vs pug nonsense would continue on because why should you be forced to play some special way the game was made to be played because you want to go against the grain and be some special snowflake.

Players complaining that the system should make fair fights in SCs and not forming a group to que with sounds just as dumb as someone complaining that they shouldn't have to group up for Hard PQs or Dungeons in PvE. This is a group based game if you can't be bothered with that then take your lumps when you get a crappy SC because you couldn't be bothered to find 5 others to play with or go play a game that is meant to be played solo and not expect everything to be given to you on a silver platter.
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zulnam
Posts: 760

Re: Premade facerolling is a problem in SC

Post#52 » Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:43 pm

Not necesarily. I've seen plenty of crass, rude behaviour and downright harassment from players even when losing to PuGs. And I think we all do it. Let he who has not lashed out at a dps healer when losing throw the first stone. It's one of those things where we need to talk to the man in the mirror, to change his ways.

As for balance, I trust nobody who says they've been losing for days, weeks, months. Open the ranked leaderboard and look at it, go through a few pages. No faction is overly powerful or broken, no matter what the whine oracles say. Some classes are easier to play, some are harder. Some specs bring more to a group, some don't. Some synergies work, some don't. Learn the difference and you will thrive.

Wanna say though, I've seen many SC threads in my time, and yours is the most sensible. It touches on something the devs can't fix, that's much more harmful to the community than people realise: attitudes and lack of empathy. It's always bad to assume a player in a SC should be playing perfectly. Maybe they're new. I met a guy a week ago, brand new to the game. Was doing T2/3 SCs in white gear with the 25% mount. Took him out and gave him gold and the tour; the basics of the game.

Don't assume just because this is an old game that there are no new players. Ask if someone is new; and if they are, help them.
SW, Kotbs, IB, Slayer, WP, WL, SM, Mara, SH, BG

tomato
Posts: 403

Re: Premade facerolling is a problem in SC

Post#53 » Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:05 pm

Thank you very much for this post.

You renewed my motivation to harvest pug tears.

I see you on the battlefield!

punk7712
Posts: 25

Re: Premade facerolling is a problem in SC

Post#54 » Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:20 pm

I know some people think this is fine, and I respect that opinion. That said, from my perspective this is turning into a huge problem. Destruction mid tier scenarios have been flat out unplayable for weeks(a suspect a bunch of 36 plus players are popping exp nerf potions to farm renown off of destruction players trying to casually level). I know people will say "make you're own premade", but that completely misses the point.

The scenario queuing mechanic is one of the biggest selling points of ROR. If you play casually' and may only have on an hour to play? Great, queue for some scenarios. It's super convenient!
Letting premades **** all over pugs completely ruins that. There are other sections of the core gameplay loop designed for premades. IE, RvR or ranked scenarios.

And don't talk to me about the 1 scenario out of 8 that is pug only. It doesnt pop.

The solution doesn't have to be make all scenarios PUG only. There is a whole spectrum of changes that can be made. Maybe make the tier 1 and tier 2 scenarios pug only, so new players don't get reamed without lube? Maybe increase renown rewards slightly for the losing side, so losing 10 scenarios in a row 500 to 5 isnt so demoralizing? Maybe development some sort of handicapping mechanism as scenarios scores get more and more lopsided?

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Omegus
Posts: 1373

Re: Premade facerolling is a problem in SC

Post#55 » Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:34 pm

punk7712 wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:20 pmAnd don't talk to me about the 1 scenario out of 8 that is pug only. It doesnt pop.
If it's not popping, it means that there's not enough people who actually care about this to join the pug-only scenario. Surely that should tell you something?
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Sulorie
Posts: 7219

Re: Premade facerolling is a problem in SC

Post#56 » Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:31 pm

The more people on your side want to win, the more likely it will be.
When the majority is around lvl 25 while wearing lvl10+ t1 gear or even have empty slots, it's not helping your cause. When you have too few healers or tanks or those are not guarding, what do you expect?

There are destro premades as well, who farm order players until those build groups as well.

You need no voice chat for those groups, you just make sure, that the group is balanced instead of praying for pug random matching.
Last edited by Sulorie on Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Dying is no option.

Husti
Posts: 111

Re: Premade facerolling is a problem in SC

Post#57 » Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:46 pm

Omegus wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:34 pm
punk7712 wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:20 pmAnd don't talk to me about the 1 scenario out of 8 that is pug only. It doesnt pop.
If it's not popping, it means that there's not enough people who actually care about this to join the pug-only scenario. Surely that should tell you something?
Actually Id love to play pug only but queue for all because there are not enough pops.

Also most people dont know what a pug SC is and just queue for all. Also there is the live event they want to finish. Also 1 pug SC alone gets boring fast.

So saying pug is not popping because people are not interested is the wrong conclusion.

punk7712
Posts: 25

Re: Premade facerolling is a problem in SC

Post#58 » Sat Oct 09, 2021 10:05 pm

Omegus wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:34 pm
punk7712 wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:20 pmAnd don't talk to me about the 1 scenario out of 8 that is pug only. It doesnt pop.
If it's not popping, it means that there's not enough people who actually care about this to join the pug-only scenario. Surely that should tell you something?
While that is a convenient assumption, there is no way to know that is really the case. Maybe folks assume it won't pop so they don't queue. Maybe folks get sick of playing the same scenario ad naseum.

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BeautfulToad
Posts: 631

Re: Premade facerolling is a problem in SC

Post#59 » Sat Oct 09, 2021 10:32 pm

I'd like more pug scenarios tbh

penagos22
Posts: 207

Re: Premade facerolling is a problem in SC

Post#60 » Sun Oct 10, 2021 4:38 am

Ekundu01 wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 3:10 pm The biggest problem this game faces when it come to balanced SCs isn't the premades but it is the mentality of the player base along with what gear you get from doing SCs. This game depends on the trifecta of Tank, dps and healers to function properly. It was designed around that group comp for making fair fights.

Unfortunately not everyone frequents the forums for information to play the role they are playing properly on top of Advice chat being full of miss information for new players. There is usually always a surplus of dps on top of players that think that tanks and healers are able to fill dps slots. This problem of tanks and healers acting as dps is further exacerbated by the gear you get from SCs is geared towards doing damage, while for dps it is a defensive set. This is a huge problem because most Tanks and healers even geared as dps are not a true dps. Dps that gear through SCs that are using the defensive gear cripple the damage they do for trading off more survival for less damage. When you compound all these issues into fighting a premade that actually has the right gear for the role they are playing you get screwed because you have tanks that think they are dps, healers that are not healing and playing as dps and dps that don't have the punching power to kill someone with 2 healers.

The only way you could make SCs fair is by making everyone dps and disable all role functions and just let everyone go slug it out. But even then you would get complaints of people using coms for assist trains and this cycle of premade vs pug nonsense would continue on because why should you be forced to play some special way the game was made to be played because you want to go against the grain and be some special snowflake.

Players complaining that the system should make fair fights in SCs and not forming a group to que with sounds just as dumb as someone complaining that they shouldn't have to group up for Hard PQs or Dungeons in PvE. This is a group based game if you can't be bothered with that then take your lumps when you get a crappy SC because you couldn't be bothered to find 5 others to play with or go play a game that is meant to be played solo and not expect everything to be given to you on a silver platter.
my warrior priest is always top dps, if he is not first he is second.
And look, I leave you this gift in the form of a photo, this is surely a friend of yours because I do not know him and if I see him I will bite his face (by the way, there I am at the top). https://ibb.co/gzqCqvY

so much text to say nothing.

Regarding the thread, there are two problems:
1- people in the order do not like or do not want to make groups.
2- For some reason the game rarely matches a premade of the order with one of the destro, so for some reason it is easier if you are playing alone that you face a premade, i checked this myself, it is a problem that occurs In both factions, I do not know if the devs know about this or not, the thing is that if you want to play alone you are going to eat ****.

solution:

A- if you are alone, join pug queue.
B- buff the numbers of the healers dps and tank dps we dont need reworks(not make you wait 8 months to switch to dps).
C- Losing does not mean wasting time, a principle that should govern sc.

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