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Premade facerolling is a problem in SC

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penagos22
Posts: 207

Re: Premade facerolling is a problem in SC

Post#111 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:31 pm

Sulorie wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:11 pm
penagos22 wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 3:44 pm It is always the same, there is a very serious problem, there are 20 people who are seeing it and it is affecting them but there is always 1 person who is clearly benefiting from the problem to say that the problem does not exist with silly arguments and that is why the solutions are delay.
One random player forces the devs to refuse to fix the problem? While 20 or some other made up number of people deliver rational and well reasoned arguments to fix a problem? Man, that's not only a tinfoil hat, that's a full body suit.

But you are right on one thing, I speak with fresh personal experience of making the transition t1 to t2.
I know exactly why either team is losing, because I watch them and see on an individual basis what someone is doing wrong.
I know with zero doubt, that player rank is no leading reason for either side to lose the SC.
You are the only one here who is saying that things are fine, how can you be so selfish, seriously !!!

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penagos22
Posts: 207

Re: Premade facerolling is a problem in SC

Post#112 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:36 pm

And I am not saying that they remove the premade, I am saying that if the premade is going to farm me, at least I will get some profitability.

Sulorie
Posts: 7219

Re: Premade facerolling is a problem in SC

Post#113 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:04 pm

penagos22 wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:31 pm
You are the only one here who is saying that things are fine, how can you be so selfish, seriously !!!
I say you name the wrong reasons for SC being loop sided.
Nobody disputes, that usually in any SC or on a bigger scale in city fight, one side dominates.
Close score games are rare and ofc fun but matching people randomly will mostly produce one-sided matches.

Do you change the rules of a game or sport, because someone doesn't know what to do? No, you help them, when they request help and let them learn those rules.
You can't blame premades or rank differences, when new players don't use the given tools, because they don't know any better.
If what you guys are saying is true, players would struggle at lowrank, no matter the experience.
Dying is no option.

sorc10
Posts: 2

Re: Premade facerolling is a problem in SC

Post#114 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:31 am

just make xp scrolls stop working after 40rr. then people have less incentive to farm t4 lair weapons, jewerly unlocks, armor and stat pots to farm midtier scs for weeks. been there, did that on my slayer. got bored around rr58, doing 400k+ damage every sc.

leveling a destro in midtier is miserable. you see same order toons every day farming people without pause, twinked to the gills.

too bad noone in power will read this :)

Husti
Posts: 111

Re: Premade facerolling is a problem in SC

Post#115 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:24 am

Sulorie wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:20 pm
Toggle wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:22 pm
Spoiler:
Sulorie wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 7:47 pm
Boosting players doesn't work, because you need to recognize the boost or people will call others cheater for dealing too much dmg.
The moment a premade sees super boosted players, which wouldn't even be nessesarry, if players play better, they would let their opponents win, if boost becomes broken. One pve win for the objectively weaker team and boost is gone and the premade can continue to dominate them.
Those /5 premades in midtier SC don't win because voicecom, they just play better. There are no geargaps at all in midtier, just players not utilizing their class properly.
When you make a new char a tutorial window pops up. Maybe this would be good for people becoming 16, where they can read the basics to start properly into midtier with links to guides.
The fact is, the rank doesn't matter from from let's say 17 to 39. The gear is rather easy to get.
People are weak because they don't bother with getting gear or flat out don't know what to get and how.
There are no gear gaps in mid tier? I’m going to pretend you’re joking. That aside, there is a pretty large skill gap in that bracket. Not as in player ability but straight up access to skills. A level 17 healer doesn’t even have their group heal yet at that point. There are classes that don’t get their “good stuff” until later on (mid 20s and some even later than that). Arguing that mid tier scenarios are “balanced” is disingenuous at best.
I will make smilies, when I joke.
I am dead serious. You see regularly sub20 healers outheal r30+ healers. You don't lose sc because of those players, you lose because players no matter the rank don't contribute enough.
Balanced in your perspective would mean winning 50:50 with whatever either side brings to the table? If this is your stance, I disagree.
It doesn't matter what rank anyone has, when you fully utilize your char at a given rank. This means spec and gear. Bolster is crazy strong but only, when you use it properly.
You are keep telling people that rank doesn't matter in midtier. That is clearly not true. The rank is a huge factor.

There are classes that are less affected by rank - mostly tanks - but for healers and mostly melee dps the rank factor is huge.

For example WPs/Doks get their group hot/absorb mid 20, RPs/Zealots get their bubble build mid 30. These things are super strong compared to lowbie healers without that. For mdps it is pretty much the same. They start to really outshine others in late 30. I can post a thousend screenshots that prove that. Where you see late 30 mdps or healers carrying the whole group.

Stop telling people that rank doesn't matter. It does matter a lot. No bolster can even out the missing abilities and tactics.

You might win with well geared and skilled lowbies vs bad geared and skilled highs but having well geared/skills highs vs well geared/skills lows is no competition. You gonna get stomped.

malmar
Posts: 63

Re: Premade facerolling is a problem in SC

Post#116 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:22 am

Could we get an ingame poll to see what do players prefer - atleast for weekend sc to be pug only?

Sulorie
Posts: 7219

Re: Premade facerolling is a problem in SC

Post#117 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:25 am

Husti wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:24 am
You are keep telling people that rank doesn't matter in midtier. That is clearly not true. The rank is a huge factor.

There are classes that are less affected by rank - mostly tanks - but for healers and mostly melee dps the rank factor is huge.

For example WPs/Doks get their group hot/absorb mid 20, RPs/Zealots get their bubble build mid 30. These things are super strong compared to lowbie healers without that. For mdps it is pretty much the same. They start to really outshine others in late 30. I can post a thousend screenshots that prove that. Where you see late 30 mdps or healers carrying the whole group.

Stop telling people that rank doesn't matter. It does matter a lot. No bolster can even out the missing abilities and tactics.

You might win with well geared and skilled lowbies vs bad geared and skilled highs but having well geared/skills highs vs well geared/skills lows is no competition. You gonna get stomped.
The "they have more skills and tactic" argument is getting so old. There are a lot other factors, to take into account before those become relevant for the outcome of a fight.
You get stomped, when you make mistakes, which means both sides are not equally skilled.
You have less tools available e.g. to punt away guard tank but this doesn't mean you can fully wipe the enemy team. The progress in the first few levels from 16 to 20+ is quite fast, you get a lot more skills pretty quick. In a game with progress, getting ranks makes a class stronger in certain aspects, while the (fewer) available abilities are significantly stronger on lowlvls.

You can make the same screenshot with lowlvls beating high-level on DPS or heal, which says one thing. There have to be other factors besides character level, which influence your results as well.

Maybe try to fix those first? Because playing the same as always, just with a higher level, will give pretty much the same results, you get outperformed by anyone else playing better.
Dying is no option.

User avatar
Omegus
Posts: 1373

Re: Premade facerolling is a problem in SC

Post#118 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:38 am

Husti wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:24 amYou are keep telling people that rank doesn't matter in midtier. That is clearly not true. The rank is a huge factor.

There are classes that are less affected by rank - mostly tanks - but for healers and mostly melee dps the rank factor is huge.

For example WPs/Doks get their group hot/absorb mid 20, RPs/Zealots get their bubble build mid 30. These things are super strong compared to lowbie healers without that. For mdps it is pretty much the same. They start to really outshine others in late 30. I can post a thousend screenshots that prove that. Where you see late 30 mdps or healers carrying the whole group.

Stop telling people that rank doesn't matter. It does matter a lot. No bolster can even out the missing abilities and tactics.

You might win with well geared and skilled lowbies vs bad geared and skilled highs but having well geared/skills highs vs well geared/skills lows is no competition. You gonna get stomped.
It honestly depends on the class and when they get their tactics or abilities to make up for losing the high bolster. Maras for example really start to drop off in the 30s as bolster drops off (piecing bite doesn't come until 39). There's also the case where scoreboard damage can just be a load of fluff AOE that got healed through and the real heroes were the single target DPS destroying the healers (usually the case).

Heals with long cast times (i.e. not DoK/WP) get a huuuuuuuge benefit from bolster. A lot of the healing from those long cast abilities comes from the inherant high base healing that that goes through the roof with bolster, as bolster also increases the rank of the ability, which in turn increases the base damage/healing.

Also, the Zealot gets the bubble tactic at rank 27. 28 for bubble + heal ritual.
Zomega: RR8x Zealot

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Husti
Posts: 111

Re: Premade facerolling is a problem in SC

Post#119 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:25 pm

Sulorie wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:25 am
Husti wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:24 am
You are keep telling people that rank doesn't matter in midtier. That is clearly not true. The rank is a huge factor.

There are classes that are less affected by rank - mostly tanks - but for healers and mostly melee dps the rank factor is huge.

For example WPs/Doks get their group hot/absorb mid 20, RPs/Zealots get their bubble build mid 30. These things are super strong compared to lowbie healers without that. For mdps it is pretty much the same. They start to really outshine others in late 30. I can post a thousend screenshots that prove that. Where you see late 30 mdps or healers carrying the whole group.

Stop telling people that rank doesn't matter. It does matter a lot. No bolster can even out the missing abilities and tactics.

You might win with well geared and skilled lowbies vs bad geared and skilled highs but having well geared/skills highs vs well geared/skills lows is no competition. You gonna get stomped.
The "they have more skills and tactic" argument is getting so old. There are a lot other factors, to take into account before those become relevant for the outcome of a fight.
You get stomped, when you make mistakes, which means both sides are not equally skilled.

You have less tools available e.g. to punt away guard tank but this doesn't mean you can fully wipe the enemy team. The progress in the first few levels from 16 to 20+ is quite fast, you get a lot more skills pretty quick. In a game with progress, getting ranks makes a class stronger in certain aspects, while the (fewer) available abilities are significantly stronger on lowlvls.

You can make the same screenshot with lowlvls beating high-level on DPS or heal, which says one thing. There have to be other factors besides character level, which influence your results as well.

Maybe try to fix those first? Because playing the same as always, just with a higher level, will give pretty much the same results, you get outperformed by anyone else playing better.
yeah, no. You are plain and simple wrong on this point.

Again, there are some classes that work pretty well with bolster. You can make pretty strong stealthers or tanks or some rpds twinks that even perform sub 30 but most classes, mainly mdps (e.g. WLs, Maras, mSHs, Slayers), 2hand tanks, RPs/Zealots or sorcs/bws are starting to gain huge power around 30 and above.

One is the lvl 29 devastator/duelist set, one is the higher crit with 30 renown points and there are several others, like RP/Zealot group bubble or WL/Mara 50% armor pierce and stuff like that.

Sure, you could get mayhem set, but pretty much nobody does because it is not that easy to get, you level up to the lvl 29 set pretty quick and you have to do boring pve for it, so it is not worth the afford. And even if you do, your power is still lower due to less renown points and probably missing key abilities/tactics.

To sum it up... classes around 30 and above are usually a lot stronger than those below, especially certain dps classes and healers. Rank matters! With most SCs being king of the hill SCs more than ever.

Sulorie
Posts: 7219

Re: Premade facerolling is a problem in SC

Post#120 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:48 pm

Husti wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:25 pm
yeah, no. You are plain and simple wrong on this point.

Again, there are some classes that work pretty well with bolster. You can make pretty strong stealthers or tanks or some rpds twinks that even perform sub 30 but most classes, mainly mdps (e.g. WLs, Maras, mSHs, Slayers), 2hand tanks, RPs/Zealots or sorcs/bws are starting to gain huge power around 30 and above.

One is the lvl 29 devastator/duelist set, one is the higher crit with 30 renown points and there are several others, like RP/Zealot group bubble or WL/Mara 50% armor pierce and stuff like that.

Sure, you could get mayhem set, but pretty much nobody does because it is not that easy to get, you level up to the lvl 29 set pretty quick and you have to do boring pve for it, so it is not worth the afford. And even if you do, your power is still lower due to less renown points and probably missing key abilities/tactics.

To sum it up... classes around 30 and above are usually a lot stronger than those below, especially certain dps classes and healers. Rank matters! With most SCs being king of the hill SCs more than ever.
How can you even judge this, while all your contribution on different topics is like "x is too strong or unfair, please fix"?!
Instead of working on yourself how to beat the enemy, you prefer to pick the easy way.
Yes, around 30 you have once again an up-to-date set to get a high bolster, a lot more skills and the ability to spec one path pretty high.
The lvl 17 DPS still has stronger abilities IF they don't run around with t1 gear and use talismans.
The lvl30 has more crit, ok but the crit rates are still very low compared to t4 and high base damage compensates for a lack of crit.
Dying is no option.

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