Full regen build ruining the game

[tazdingo]

self healing already got nerfed to not scale with will

[normanis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40eFM6780r0

[ExcretusMaximus]

Spoiler:

100% agree. Not only on tanks. On pretty much every class that can go tanky.

It's easy to get several hundred hp every few seconds. On main problem here is that ring https://ibb.co/D1dCk9X that exists in various versions on both sides and is NOT UNIQUE!

The new quest item from city with 80 per 4 seconds made it even worse.

Imagine a WE with 600 absorb after crit, heals on their kisses with tactic, several hundred reggen, heal/absorb potions and great escape abilities. On top of that they still do a lot damage, even if they go full def, because their procs are barely affected by strength. And they just buffed that procs with the latest patch. It's stupid...

Same with Maras who have a self hot and tons of toughness and tanks that take almost no damage. It's broken...

Same with BGs who have bubble, heals and a m1 that can bring them to 100% life again when they have some dots/debuffs on them, which they usually have. It's stupid...

I love how you only name Destruction classes, as if Order is incapable of doing the exact same thing.

[Caduceus]

Agree with the OP.

In general, time-to-kill has gone up and up. It's negatively impacting many modes of play and promotes zerging.

It's a wider issue, I feel.

Regen builds are that side of the coin for small-scale (< 6v6).


On a sidenote, it'd be best to refrain from making this a Order vs. Destro thing. These issues are felt by both sides and emphasizing the factions will only cause animosity.

[yoluigi]

Destro vs order has nothing to do with this you could make an SM and use full regen and use buble ability and be op. I was 2h with 1k str + i got an ability to 50% armor penetration and ib 2h had bis with high str/ws. Full regen is only usefull in small scale and yes WE, WH multiple class can use it as an advantage. Am talking about the full regen gear in general.

[tazdingo]

let's actually look at a tanks options for regen and what it's costing him...

renown - 140
3 x fleshrender - 120
sent ring - 72
tyrant weps - 52
immutable defiance - 20
body - 80
shoulders - 64
boots - 40
pocket shroom - 80

i do not know of any helmet / gloves / belt or clock with hp regen

+ all tanks get an ability / tactic that gets you around 100/sec (if you max that tree...) with 50% uptime / efficiency ( corruptive power, bolstering hatred, ect. )

so:

( ( 140 + 120 + 72 + 52 + 20 + 80 + 64 + 40 + 80 ) / 4 ) + 50 = 217hp/s

what you're paying for that:

45 renown
all jewel slots + your epic tali
having to use dumpy conq tier weps
your main pot, i don't think many tanks run tb
+ your higher set bonuses as the body/boots/shoulders are split between sov off, sov main and warlord

all for a number than a real dps negates with auto attacks

what does this achieve:

can pub better, can perform your role when heals are unreliable without dying to stray dots (na destro anyone?)
can actually play in scs when sides are imba and again, heals aren't around, instead of sitting in wc
can have fun testing out off meta strats and builds without weighing down an org wb and again, not dying to stray dots and aoe
are basically immune to off spec gankers like dps healers who think they should be able to drop a tank



i do not see the problem.

[Husti]

Spoiler:

100% agree. Not only on tanks. On pretty much every class that can go tanky.

It's easy to get several hundred hp every few seconds. On main problem here is that ring https://ibb.co/D1dCk9X that exists in various versions on both sides and is NOT UNIQUE!

The new quest item from city with 80 per 4 seconds made it even worse.

Imagine a WE with 600 absorb after crit, heals on their kisses with tactic, several hundred reggen, heal/absorb potions and great escape abilities. On top of that they still do a lot damage, even if they go full def, because their procs are barely affected by strength. And they just buffed that procs with the latest patch. It's stupid...

Same with Maras who have a self hot and tons of toughness and tanks that take almost no damage. It's broken...

Same with BGs who have bubble, heals and a m1 that can bring them to 100% life again when they have some dots/debuffs on them, which they usually have. It's stupid...

I love how you only name Destruction classes, as if Order is incapable of doing the exact same thing.

Well, WHs can't go full def and let the procs do the work, like WEs can. Nor do they have that 600 absorb after crit. Does WL have a self hot like Mara or such high toughness or a parry bonus because of dual whield? No. Does any other tank beside BGs get that M1 heal, together with absorbs and other heals? No

To answer your question: No, order can't do the exact same thing WEs, BGs and Maras can do it. And destro tanks do more damage. Everybody knows that. For example, you wont kill anything with a reggen knight but you will with a reggen chosen.

[ExcretusMaximus]

Well, WHs can't go full def and let the procs do the work, like WEs can. Nor do they have that 600 absorb after crit. Does WL have a self hot like Mara or such high toughness or a parry bonus because of dual whield? No. Does any other tank beside BGs get that M1 heal, together with absorbs and other heals? No

To answer your question: No, order can't do the exact same thing WEs, BGs and Maras can do it. And destro tanks do more damage. Everybody knows that. For example, you wont kill anything with a reggen knight but you will with a reggen chosen.

Are you really that blind and fanatical that you think Destruction has all the advantages?

I'm honestly asking, because I've never seen you post anything that doesn't mention destruction being broken beyond repair or Order being complete garbage. If someone were to believe what you say, Destruction would be an unstoppable juggernaut that rolled over three times their numbers without a problem. If that were the case, the population wouldn't be as close as it is, and Order would never be able to compete; yet it is, and they do.

People are trying to voice an actual concern about game mechanics, and you're trying to derail it and turn it into another "Woe is me, my faction is horrible" cry fest and then pretending you're not doing that. You're either feigning ignorance, or truly ignorant, and I'm not sure which is worse.

[tazdingo]

i like this guy above me

[Caduceus]

let's actually look at a tanks options for regen and what it's costing him...

renown - 140
3 x fleshrender - 120
sent ring - 72
tyrant weps - 52
immutable defiance - 20
body - 80
shoulders - 64
boots - 40
pocket shroom - 80

i do not know of any helmet / gloves / belt or clock with hp regen

+ all tanks get an ability / tactic that gets you around 100/sec (if you max that tree...) with 50% uptime / efficiency ( corruptive power, bolstering hatred, ect. )

so:

( ( 140 + 120 + 72 + 52 + 20 + 80 + 64 + 40 + 80 ) / 4 ) + 50 = 167hp/s

what you're paying for that:

45 renown
all jewel slots + your epic tali
having to use dumpy conq tier weps
your main pot, i don't think many tanks run tb
+ your higher set bonuses as the body/boots/shoulders are split between sov off, sov main and warlord

all for a number than a real dps negates with auto attacks

what does this achieve:

can pub better, can perform your role when heals are unreliable without dying to stray dots (na destro anyone?)
can actually play in scs when sides are imba and again, heals aren't around, instead of sitting in wc
can have fun testing out off meta strats and builds without weighing down an org wb and again, not dying to stray dots and aoe
are basically immune to off spec gankers like dps healers who think they should be able to drop a tank



i do not see the problem.

This is an inaccurate way of framing the issue.

The trick to regen tanks is not just regen. It's regen + high mitigation.

When high regen is combined with high avoidance, absorb shields, potions etc, all of that regen becomes a lot more powerful.


Essentially what mitigation does, is it makes every point of health worth more. An example to illustrate that point is that 9k health on a Sorc is a lot easier to burn through than 9k health on a tank.

So on paper that regen may look weak, but every solo/small-scale player worth their salt knows how crucial regen is, and how close you can get to completely nullifying the opponent's damage.


150 health/second may not sound like much, but over the course of an average fight that can easily gain you over 10k healing, essentially doubling your health pool. (And that 167 hp/s you mentioned did not yet account for class abilities like Bolstering Anger)

Another important factor is that regen gets more powerful as fights last longer. The value keeps ramping up and that efficiency will eventually leave all non-regen builds in the dust.