Recent Topics

Ads

The alienation of solo/pug/casual players and it's unintended side-effects

We want to hear your thoughts and ideas.
Forum rules
Before posting on this forum, be sure to read the Terms of Use

Structured class balance suggestions belong in the Balance Proposal subforum. Class-related discussion in this section are considered as ongoing debates and ARE NOT reviewed for balance changes.
Strakar
Posts: 144

Re: The alienation of solo/pug/casual players and it's unintended side-effects

Post#11 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:31 pm

ExcretusMaximus wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:24 pm
tazdingo wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:30 pm bring back bo ticks

Did they once give ticks other than when captured? Because you get RP for captures again.
Yes they are back on capture but seem kind of static 250 rp, it used to happen on defense too and up to 2k depending on the amount of fighting.

Another thing hitting us in the shorts right now is vanquisher grind. They mostly fixed rp gain on locks now but they never fixed medals rewards. I'm still getting like 2 medals in a zone where we've been actively fighting for hours with a gold contribution.

Ads
meatcpu
Posts: 69

Re: The alienation of solo/pug/casual players and it's unintended side-effects

Post#12 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:56 pm

In general any viable increase in the number of strategic options would be nice. I was part of a siege this morning that was halted at 2% because there was no AAO and the pugs were smart enough to know their odds.

The door repair and keep flightmaster are pretty majorly underutilized features and would be great things for small scale players to do. Some of that is a knowledge/coordination gap, but perhaps a small boost to the door repaired amount would shake things up. As it stands I'm not sure that even a WB running supplies could heal a door quickly enough to make a difference, maybe if they split up and met no resistance. If the sieging side has to hold BOs while taking down the door then not everyone is standing around waiting for it to fall, the defending team can buy time for reinforcements, siege weapon shots increase, etc. Maybe an outnumbered faction with enough siege weapon shots could use knockback in a 3star keep to hold the line. Increased time to kill for keeps if you will.

User avatar
Toggle
Posts: 286

Re: The alienation of solo/pug/casual players and it's unintended side-effects

Post#13 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:17 pm

Don’t you know casuals ruin MMOs?!
Shaman - 40/8X
Zealot - 40/8X [Retired]
AM - 40/8X
RP - 40/7X [Retired]

User avatar
tazdingo
Posts: 1200

Re: The alienation of solo/pug/casual players and it's unintended side-effects

Post#14 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:43 pm

ExcretusMaximus wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:24 pm
tazdingo wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:30 pm bring back bo ticks

Did they once give ticks other than when captured? Because you get RP for captures again.

yep you used to get a small trickle of ren/exp/inf for siting on a bo. it was a nice reliable way to feel like you were getting something at least, and also painted targets for roamers & gankers in less populated zones. a nice anti zerg mechanic that was a win for everybody

abezverkhiy
Posts: 551

Re: The alienation of solo/pug/casual players and it's unintended side-effects

Post#15 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:22 pm

Just do not forget that changes to morales came as a counter measure for morale bombs in forts where morale bombing was abused big time. If you unwind the change then this old issue will re-emerge.

Possibly a way to penalize blobs maybe hidden in rvr siege weapons. They could do what morale bombs did before. I remember something similar in GW2 - mobile artillery that caused aoe cripple and aoe damage. It worked fine as anti blob thing.

Another thing that encourages herd behaviour is State of Realm addon. It kills the element of randomness - everyone has it and all flow in the same zone leaving others empty. And decisions like starting a siege or joining the defence are dictated by the addon. It should have been banned long before Nerfed Buttons.
KingSchultz WH, Valknutt WP, Glendhu ENG, Lochdhu IB, Tamdhu SL

My WH guide: viewtopic.php?t=46354

User avatar
ExcretusMaximus
Posts: 134

Re: The alienation of solo/pug/casual players and it's unintended side-effects

Post#16 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:45 pm

tazdingo wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:43 pm yep you used to get a small trickle of ren/exp/inf for siting on a bo. it was a nice reliable way to feel like you were getting something at least, and also painted targets for roamers & gankers in less populated zones. a nice anti zerg mechanic that was a win for everybody

Oh, that sounds nice. I play in a small group, it'd be nice to have options other than getting run over all night until we stumble onto even numbers.
<Countered By Skill> & <RUN AWAY>
...........(active)...................(inactive)

Everdin
Posts: 555

Re: The alienation of solo/pug/casual players and it's unintended side-effects

Post#17 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:00 am

navis wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:19 pm ...

And another suggestion for RvR I would like to see is to delete all the Keep kill quests (too many RvR quests as it is), and replace them with PQ-like events at the keeps or objectives themselves. That would be way more fun and would be more inclusive to general/casual population.
This seems like a very good idea, make it a event for the complete defender side,

number of killed players in 3 or more tiers (e.g. 50/100/200) -> fix renown bonus (maybe affected by AAO) at the end of keep fight no matter who wins.

This would directly give benefit to people who are willing to defend even under bad conditions.
#AllClassesMatter

“A man can fail many times, but he isn't a failure until he begins to blame somebody else.”

― John Burroughs

User avatar
Amdus
Posts: 115

Re: The alienation of solo/pug/casual players and it's unintended side-effects

Post#18 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:41 pm

Toggle wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:17 pm Don’t you know casuals ruin MMOs?!
Tell me one MMO that got ruined by casuals in the history of MMO's.

And after you tell me this, tell me what MMO survived without casuals.

You know those scenarios you play on the alts you level up? They are sponsored by casuals. Those 6 people on each faction that queue after coming home from work for a couple of hours because they don't have time to invest in RvR, because they don't like RvR, or simply because they have been told that leveling through SC's is the most effective way of leveling. Whatever the reason is, those "casuals that ruin MMO's" are the only reason the "elitists" of this server can level up alts through scenarios.

Sometimes i'm under the impression that the majority of people that types on the forums hasn't played any other MMO but this one. And most importantly: They haven't played other private servers from other MMO's to get an actual idea of what is succesful and what is a guaranteed failure. I've seen 3 wow servers die out in the past 5 years, servers that went from 3k players to 1k then to 500 then to 200 and then to 40. That highlighted that those 40 were the "elitists" while the other 2960 where the casuals. Now, do you think any MMO is playable with 40 elitists? or are MMO's playable when you have a huge amount of "casuals" that bring the randomness and the surprise factor while the "elitists" farm them and climb the gear ladder thanks to them?

I'm honestly starting to think that a lot of people are actively incentivising ideas to truly ruin this server, maybe some aren't aware of it, and maybe some are. But overall, I suggest you guys think through the stuff you suggest sometimes and its long term effect. It's not rocket science you know. It's 2021 we have a full history of MMO's that are succesful and also unsuccesful. It's quite easy to figure out what are the formulas that work and the ones that don't.

Ads
Caduceus
Posts: 653

Re: The alienation of solo/pug/casual players and it's unintended side-effects

Post#19 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:05 pm

Amdus wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:41 pm
Tell me one MMO that got ruined by casuals in the history of MMO's.

And after you tell me this, tell me what MMO survived without casuals.

You know those scenarios you play on the alts you level up? They are sponsored by casuals. Those 6 people on each faction that queue after coming home from work for a couple of hours because they don't have time to invest in RvR, because they don't like RvR, or simply because they have been told that leveling through SC's is the most effective way of leveling. Whatever the reason is, those "casuals that ruin MMO's" are the only reason the "elitists" of this server can level up alts through scenarios.

Sometimes i'm under the impression that the majority of people that types on the forums hasn't played any other MMO but this one. And most importantly: They haven't played other private servers from other MMO's to get an actual idea of what is succesful and what is a guaranteed failure. I've seen 3 wow servers die out in the past 5 years, servers that went from 3k players to 1k then to 500 then to 200 and then to 40. That highlighted that those 40 were the "elitists" while the other 2960 where the casuals. Now, do you think any MMO is playable with 40 elitists? or are MMO's playable when you have a huge amount of "casuals" that bring the randomness and the surprise factor while the "elitists" farm them and climb the gear ladder thanks to them?

I'm honestly starting to think that a lot of people are actively incentivising ideas to truly ruin this server, maybe some aren't aware of it, and maybe some are. But overall, I suggest you guys think through the stuff you suggest sometimes and its long term effect. It's not rocket science you know. It's 2021 we have a full history of MMO's that are succesful and also unsuccesful. It's quite easy to figure out what are the formulas that work and the ones that don't.

I'm pretty sure @Toggle was being sarcastic, and was mocking a certain member of the lead team that has gone on record saying such things (which is very worrying indeed).


Still, I agree with the gist of your post.

We've seen this same process in Ranked scenarios, where a large group of participants was simply stamped as "Not good enough". They were the "losers" and deserved nothing, or such was the sentiment that was spread by vocal, elitist members of the community. Ranked died because of it.


What these people overlook is that in any competitive environment there are winners and losers, and if you make the losers quit, there will be a new set of winners and losers, and so forth. It's all relative. Their design philosophy fails because ultimately, just like in your example, you're left with no one.
"I watched a snail crawl along the edge of a straight razor. That's my dream; that's my nightmare. Crawling, slithering, along the edge of a straight razor... and surviving." - Colonel Walter E. Kurtz

BeautfulToad
Posts: 631

Re: The alienation of solo/pug/casual players and it's unintended side-effects

Post#20 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:13 pm

ExcretusMaximus wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:24 pm
tazdingo wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:30 pm bring back bo ticks

Did they once give ticks other than when captured? Because you get RP for captures again.
They gave a trickle for rr/exp/inf for each minute or so you were in a certain radius of the BO.

Biggest problem was people afking at BOs and this would mess up the AAO meter and sieges would take place with a ton of people standing idle at BOs. You would get full warbands of people afk on BOs at times. All those people in IC standing about doing nothing would be at some BO in an active RvR zone. So 30% of the players in a zone might be active, not get AAO bonuses, and be hugely outnumbered when they tried to do anything but get no rr/xp/inf rewards for being successful.

Not saying the system had no benefits though, more people would be encouraged to log in and go to rvr (pop was same as it is now, but more people would be in the rvr zone), and I think afkers generally benefited people who weren't afk.

I'd certainly like the current supply system to be revisited. Whether that's trying the old system again or something new, idk.

I do think people should be encouraged to come to rvr zones with the lure of rr/inf bonus, instead of standing about IC, it should be said. For no other reason than making the game and battles feel more alive.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests