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The alienation of solo/pug/casual players and it's unintended side-effects

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ExcretusMaximus
Posts: 88

Re: The alienation of solo/pug/casual players and it's unintended side-effects

Post#21 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:08 pm

BeautfulToad wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:13 pm
Biggest problem was people afking at BOs and this would mess up the AAO meter and sieges would take place with a ton of people standing idle at BOs. You would get full warbands of people afk on BOs at times. All those people in IC standing about doing nothing would be at some BO in an active RvR zone. So 30% of the players in a zone might be active, not get AAO bonuses, and be hugely outnumbered when they tried to do anything but get no rr/xp/inf rewards for being successful.

So why not just make people maintain activity instead of turning it off completely?

Have the BOs give their rewards for five minutes once taken, say one tick every minute, and then turn off the tick until the BO is challenged. This would still give rewards to smaller parties while promoting competition at the objectives themselves.
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mogt
Posts: 434

Re: The alienation of solo/pug/casual players and it's unintended side-effects

Post#22 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:20 pm

dor what the players cry damn it. the players are the problem, if they dont have interest for attack or defend a zone so many players want zerging for what. zerging bring the compaign not forwa3rd.

tactical gameplay ist, if a guerilla group, prepare a second or the third zone and no multiple attack for bring the campagin forward, that is the goal and not just zerging in one zone. players dont have the basics anymore and this is the keyproblem, and not the system, the goal is enemys capital city, as example, if 1 wb attack a second zone and noone come for deff (because the enemys want zerging), who does the mistake, right, the enemys do the mistake, because they dont ant defend and this must learn the players, the system how it is, have so many tactical options the playerbase are the problem,not the system. very easy, the players must use their brain cells for tactical and strategy gameplay and not just smash buttons in a zerg without coordination. rvr ismore as just kill enemys player in a zerg, the key is bring the campagin forward andnot zerg x hours with equal numbers i one zone. please players learn the basics

Roos
Posts: 5

Re: The alienation of solo/pug/casual players and it's unintended side-effects

Post#23 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:24 pm

I've won 4 SCs in 3,5 days(this day isnt over yet). Most of them we barely get a single kill. My brain is telling me to just give up and quit but the game is so cool its hard.

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Magusar
Posts: 43

Re: The alienation of solo/pug/casual players and it's unintended side-effects

Post#24 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:30 pm

Double
Last edited by Magusar on Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Drukar Netherlord
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WH 85
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Magusar
Posts: 43

Re: The alienation of solo/pug/casual players and it's unintended side-effects

Post#25 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:31 pm

Caduceus wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:39 pm
The devs of Return of Reckoning have never made it a secret that they wish to disincentivise solo.
Will much more corretc. RoR's devs do not punish the casual style of play very much. And this is good. An example would be that people, ahem, sorry for the "image" without some of the abilities on their hotbars, have a positive killrate in zones/scenarios, have sov gear(best set in game)+bl+sent( Except is Triumphant set from ranked).
Solo players at RoR are suffering,yes.
Caduceus wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:39 pm
2. TTK
One of the best things on RoR was a cap for morale dmg. Before,when it was not implemented, fights 24vs24 and 6vs6 looked like "guys with a lot of def on the dps chars just running around, sluggishly rushed their abilitys and then,when they have morales->blobing->drop->win.
Have tools for counter that? Des side mb, order not. Times when we have 45 instances at city and 40 of them was winning by Destro "say hello" from the past. In 24vs24 its accompanied by undf GTDC and mrd stunlocks(U will never run away from it). If u tryed do the same thing on order-Sh's "Outta of My Way" and Zealots "Winds of Insanity", mrdrs "Crushing BLows" and etc didnt let u kill ppl. For Sh's (and Zealots in future) was counter only interrupts, but their number in warbands did not allow effectively preventing their abilities.
In 6vs6 was a great setups 3 healers and 2 tanks, 3 healers 3 tanks, defensive dps with a morale drop, when nothing happens between morales drops just a swarming-stunning sight(no). If you didb't play through the morale setups-u were the outsider. No creativity.
The only plus is the game against the zerg.
Caduceus wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:39 pm
3. NEW PLAYERS
This game never was newbiefriendly, yes. Its always was big problem of this. The game offers only pvp, where certain knowledge and practice are important, which, obviously, new players do not have. This leads to excessive deaths without any rewards->Leaving from game.Nobody likes to be killed all the time. Its one of the reasons of zerging.
Drukar Netherlord
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WH 85
Marauder 84
Sorc 83

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BluIzLucky
Posts: 189

Re: The alienation of solo/pug/casual players and it's unintended side-effects

Post#26 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:12 pm

Strakar wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:31 pm
Yes they are back on capture but seem kind of static 250 rp, it used to happen on defense too and up to 2k depending on the amount of fighting.

Another thing hitting us in the shorts right now is vanquisher grind. They mostly fixed rp gain on locks now but they never fixed medals rewards. I'm still getting like 2 medals in a zone where we've been actively fighting for hours with a gold contribution.
Oh.. I thought it might just be me getting unlucky/bugged.. literally got full invader before full Vanq on my zealot and that's with 8 vanq gold bags and buying boots+gloves with gold... vs 0 invader gold bags.. was R69 before full vanq... :lol:
Remember getting +30 vanqs from a zone on my SM, zealot max 2..

Didn't see this change in patch notes, is it intentional? :?
SM - Arhalien +80 | AM - Shaheena +80 | ZL - Wildera +70

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Toggle
Posts: 175

Re: The alienation of solo/pug/casual players and it's unintended side-effects

Post#27 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:15 pm

Caduceus wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:05 pm
Amdus wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:41 pm

Tell me one MMO that got ruined by casuals in the history of MMO's.

And after you tell me this, tell me what MMO survived without casuals.

You know those scenarios you play on the alts you level up? They are sponsored by casuals. Those 6 people on each faction that queue after coming home from work for a couple of hours because they don't have time to invest in RvR, because they don't like RvR, or simply because they have been told that leveling through SC's is the most effective way of leveling. Whatever the reason is, those "casuals that ruin MMO's" are the only reason the "elitists" of this server can level up alts through scenarios.

Sometimes i'm under the impression that the majority of people that types on the forums hasn't played any other MMO but this one. And most importantly: They haven't played other private servers from other MMO's to get an actual idea of what is succesful and what is a guaranteed failure. I've seen 3 wow servers die out in the past 5 years, servers that went from 3k players to 1k then to 500 then to 200 and then to 40. That highlighted that those 40 were the "elitists" while the other 2960 where the casuals. Now, do you think any MMO is playable with 40 elitists? or are MMO's playable when you have a huge amount of "casuals" that bring the randomness and the surprise factor while the "elitists" farm them and climb the gear ladder thanks to them?

I'm honestly starting to think that a lot of people are actively incentivising ideas to truly ruin this server, maybe some aren't aware of it, and maybe some are. But overall, I suggest you guys think through the stuff you suggest sometimes and its long term effect. It's not rocket science you know. It's 2021 we have a full history of MMO's that are succesful and also unsuccesful. It's quite easy to figure out what are the formulas that work and the ones that don't.

I'm pretty sure @Toggle was being sarcastic, and was mocking a certain member of the lead team that has gone on record saying such things (which is very worrying indeed).


Still, I agree with the gist of your post.

We've seen this same process in Ranked scenarios, where a large group of participants was simply stamped as "Not good enough". They were the "losers" and deserved nothing, or such was the sentiment that was spread by vocal, elitist members of the community. Ranked died because of it.


What these people overlook is that in any competitive environment there are winners and losers, and if you make the losers quit, there will be a new set of winners and losers, and so forth. It's all relative. Their design philosophy fails because ultimately, just like in your example, you're left with no one.
This.
Shaman - 40/8X [Might as well be retired.]
Zealot - 40/8X [Retired]
AM - 40/7X
RP - 40/7X [Retired]

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Vegetaplays
Posts: 52

Re: The alienation of solo/pug/casual players and it's unintended side-effects

Post#28 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:00 am

Very good post, and goes in-depth to things I wouldn't even think of.
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tristess
Posts: 12

Re: The alienation of solo/pug/casual players and it's unintended side-effects

Post#29 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:34 pm

Thank you for summarizing those issues. For me, the "stomp or get stomped" game design has become much more apparent this year, especially in cities.
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yoluigi
Posts: 226

Re: The alienation of solo/pug/casual players and it's unintended side-effects

Post#30 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:51 pm

Good post. Yeah we really need to tweak it people spread in multiple zones instead of been just one. Like maximus said
quote " Have the BOs give their rewards for five minutes once taken, say one tick every minute, and then turn off the tick until the BO is challenged. This would still give rewards to smaller parties while promoting competition at the objectives themselves."

We need to find more ideas to help the overall experience.
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