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The alienation of solo/pug/casual players and it's unintended side-effects

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BeautfulToad
Posts: 606

Re: The alienation of solo/pug/casual players and it's unintended side-effects

Post#31 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:54 pm

ExcretusMaximus wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:08 pm
So why not just make people maintain activity instead of turning it off completely?

Have the BOs give their rewards for five minutes once taken, say one tick every minute, and then turn off the tick until the BO is challenged. This would still give rewards to smaller parties while promoting competition at the objectives themselves.
The old system worked better in T1 than the current one, tbqh. You'd have to experience it in T4, you'd get zones not locking because you'd have no idea how realistic it was to siege as so many afkers would be standing around not doing anything.

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aryvandaar
Posts: 4

Re: The alienation of solo/pug/casual players and it's unintended side-effects

Post#32 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:08 pm

I'm a pretty new player, and I've been noticed the some of the same things, and I agree with the rest. When I first started out in RoR, it had a lot more players. I can understand why new players quit, and I've been on the brink of quiting the game a few times myself. Which is a shame, cause this is a really unique mmo.

One of the biggest barriers for me is the gear, which for me felt very convoluted, and still does.

If you don't play at prime times either, grouping up isn't always an option, and people seem hostile to grouping up, which I understand is because of scenario queuing. Can that be fixed somehow?

jshort
Posts: 9

Re: The alienation of solo/pug/casual players and it's unintended side-effects

Post#33 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:21 pm

Very good post and valid points. I totally agree.
Especially the LONG TTK in small scale. I dont know what the exact diffrence compared to live server is, but weapon dps is a lot lower in ROR (87dps on LV 2hand, 101 dps on rr75 2hand), and on live people used to play with Trivial Blows, which "just" lowerd crit dmg, but i still remember critting quite often with like 30% crit chance. In ror i feel like i barely crit at all due to FS.
To the NEW Player stuff:
The gear advantage from bis gear compared to vanq is very noticalbe. And it takes forever to get to bis gear if you are not in a premade wb and win cities on daily base. If you dont play like 6 hours + per day chances are you see 1 city in 2 weeks. If you dont have bis gear and are well connected (which most new players arent) you wont get into the good groups/wbs. Which results in 45 minutes of beeing farmed in City and getting nearly no reward at all for this. This is such a frustrating mechanic. Eather bis gear should be easier to get or the gear advantage should be smaller. (When cities were first intruduced you could get sov armor from gold bags. After the first week some people were at 5 pieces sov already)
(This is not a "oh pls give me my easy bis gear" post, my main is full geared and i am doing fine with that)
I feel this results in a "Elite" player base whos well connected and playing on their own. While new or casual players have the option tor zerg forever or/and get farmed till they are equipped enough or so frustrated they quit.
And there is no alternative to rvr gear, since ranked scenario queue does not exist at all.

BeautfulToad
Posts: 606

Re: The alienation of solo/pug/casual players and it's unintended side-effects

Post#34 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:42 pm

I love RoR, and I dont think I will touch another mmo.

But they need to fix rvr medal rewards. One of my chars with full vanq gets 8 medals after and rvr, one without it get 1. Can we just have decent medal rewards if you have a certain level of contrib again?

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Mordecaieth
Posts: 125
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Re: The alienation of solo/pug/casual players and it's unintended side-effects

Post#35 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:09 pm

Strakar wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:31 pm

Another thing hitting us in the shorts right now is vanquisher grind. They mostly fixed rp gain on locks now but they never fixed medals rewards. I'm still getting like 2 medals in a zone where we've been actively fighting for hours with a gold contribution.
I just wanted to piggy-back off of this. The ever expanding arsenal of vanq to sov gear has somewhat devalued the Beastlord set, in my personal opinion.

While being devalued you still have to put in the same time and effort to get all the Beastlord kills, wait for spawns, fight others groups that hate the process as much as you do, etc. (Yes, I know the book costs less coins now- but the process is the same.)

Ideally it will take you 3-4 days to kill all the bosses. You could get lucky and do it in a day or two with a group of players that have done it on toons and know what they're doing. Imagine how long a new player would take with no social network in game.

I would urgently recommend decreasing the spawn timer or instancing the kills for Beastlord.

Rapzel
Posts: 286

Re: The alienation of solo/pug/casual players and it's unintended side-effects

Post#36 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:49 pm

aryvandaar wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:08 pm
One of the biggest barriers for me is the gear, which for me felt very convoluted, and still does.
Misconception, you may think you lose because of gear, bit it's the smallest factor in general, RR and skill outperform any gear in this game (from a group setting perspective, not the people that believe that there's any skill in going full regen and afk people to death), that's why the game has managed to be fun for such a long for many even though it's been pretty much the same maps that have been played for the last 12 years.
aryvandaar wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:08 pm
If you don't play at prime times either, grouping up isn't always an option, and people seem hostile to grouping up, which I understand is because of scenario queuing. Can that be fixed somehow?
Whenever the "sweaty tryhards who plays for 14 hrs a day" propose that there should be incentives to actually do things as a group the solo players see red, because they believe they are entitled to stuff, even though they sit AFK 90% of the time and are so incompetent they can't even be used as cannon fodder.
6 man groups got weekend event and ranked, so I am not complaining, but when I look at the rewards people for actually setting up proper WBs for ORvR and that they get the same terrible rewards as the plebs who run around without any spatial awareness or understanding of what is going on, except for whining and proposing bad sieges in RegionRvR chat, it really makes me wonder why these people continue playing the game, I guess it's the social aspect.

Satirico
Posts: 55

Re: The alienation of solo/pug/casual players and it's unintended side-effects

Post#37 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:19 pm

It's important that more and more players are seeing how bad RoR is actually. And all "they" care about are for useless or non wanted features, like ghost cities. They just forgot to give attention to the most important element of this game: RvR.
I'm not against new stuff, I love it, but you can't drive a truck and go check its oil and forget the direction. And RoR is this truck while dev team just forgot the direction of it. Even they say "oh we are doing changes and et cetera", we have weeks without patches, without changes, and the last patch was full focused on the new stuff.
I agree 100% with this post, but I fear "they" won't care for that once they seem to have lost the direction of the server. They took too much time for ranked development and secondary cities and forgot to care of rvr and classes balancing and many other things.
They could work on seasonal stuff for rvr, for example, balancing rotation for classes, while they work with the new stuff.
Max always says they have a team working on it, other team working that, but we don't see the basic happening, and this, imo, is the most unmotivational thing to happen to a game that needs attention always.

Rapzel
Posts: 286

Re: The alienation of solo/pug/casual players and it's unintended side-effects

Post#38 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:32 pm

Satirico wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:19 pm
It's important that more and more players are seeing how bad RoR is actually. And all "they" care about are for useless or non wanted features, like ghost cities. They just forgot to give attention to the most important element of this game: RvR.
I'm not against new stuff, I love it, but you can't drive a truck and go check its oil and forget the direction. And RoR is this truck while dev team just forgot the direction of it. Even they say "oh we are doing changes and et cetera", we have weeks without patches, without changes, and the last patch was full focused on the new stuff.
I agree 100% with this post, but I fear "they" won't care for that once they seem to have lost the direction of the server. They took too much time for ranked development and secondary cities and forgot to care of rvr and classes balancing and many other things.
They could work on seasonal stuff for rvr, for example, balancing rotation for classes, while they work with the new stuff.
Max always says they have a team working on it, other team working that, but we don't see the basic happening, and this, imo, is the most unmotivational thing to happen to a game that needs attention always.
Balance and so forth is made by so called "realm champions", because of the amount of harassment Devs had to endure for experimenting with balance.
These changes will be implemented before the start of each new ranked season which I think is going to yield about 2-3 balance patches each year or something.
That said, I agree I would rather see balance patches than the implementation of "Return to Ekrund" event.

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tazdingo
Posts: 830

Re: The alienation of solo/pug/casual players and it's unintended side-effects

Post#39 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:36 pm

Mordecaieth wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:09 pm
Strakar wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:31 pm

Another thing hitting us in the shorts right now is vanquisher grind. They mostly fixed rp gain on locks now but they never fixed medals rewards. I'm still getting like 2 medals in a zone where we've been actively fighting for hours with a gold contribution.
I just wanted to piggy-back off of this. The ever expanding arsenal of vanq to sov gear has somewhat devalued the Beastlord set, in my personal opinion.

While being devalued you still have to put in the same time and effort to get all the Beastlord kills, wait for spawns, fight others groups that hate the process as much as you do, etc. (Yes, I know the book costs less coins now- but the process is the same.)

Ideally it will take you 3-4 days to kill all the bosses. You could get lucky and do it in a day or two with a group of players that have done it on toons and know what they're doing. Imagine how long a new player would take with no social network in game.

I would urgently recommend decreasing the spawn timer or instancing the kills for Beastlord.

part of this is knowledge. i've had people leave bb/be & hv groups when i mentioned a first timer is joining us because "fast runs only." there are great guilds on both sides who will run new players through them but outside of that its daunting bordering impossible. there are far more completely new players rotating through the game than people think, not just new to ror but new to war

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Toggle
Posts: 177

Re: The alienation of solo/pug/casual players and it's unintended side-effects

Post#40 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:41 pm

Rapzel wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:49 pm
aryvandaar wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:08 pm
One of the biggest barriers for me is the gear, which for me felt very convoluted, and still does.
Misconception, you may think you lose because of gear, bit it's the smallest factor in general, RR and skill outperform any gear in this game (from a group setting perspective, not the people that believe that there's any skill in going full regen and afk people to death), that's why the game has managed to be fun for such a long for many even though it's been pretty much the same maps that have been played for the last 12 years.
aryvandaar wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:08 pm
If you don't play at prime times either, grouping up isn't always an option, and people seem hostile to grouping up, which I understand is because of scenario queuing. Can that be fixed somehow?
Whenever the "sweaty tryhards who plays for 14 hrs a day" propose that there should be incentives to actually do things as a group the solo players see red, because they believe they are entitled to stuff, even though they sit AFK 90% of the time and are so incompetent they can't even be used as cannon fodder.
6 man groups got weekend event and ranked, so I am not complaining, but when I look at the rewards people for actually setting up proper WBs for ORvR and that they get the same terrible rewards as the plebs who run around without any spatial awareness or understanding of what is going on, except for whining and proposing bad sieges in RegionRvR chat, it really makes me wonder why these people continue playing the game, I guess it's the social aspect.
If your organized WBs are getting “the same terrible rewards as the plebs”, then you need to find some better organized WBs. There’s a significant difference in medals gained in a zone, zone contribution, fort bags, city wins/bags, etc. in an organized WB when comparing it to a PUG WB. But you already know that…
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