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Cities should definitely have separate queues for PUGs and premades

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CyunUnderis
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Re: Cities should definitely have separate queues for PUGs and premades

Post#11 » Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:39 am

Drop the name of WB leaders dodging then.

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Tillirage
Posts: 52

Re: Cities should definitely have separate queues for PUGs and premades

Post#12 » Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:41 pm

Other than todays city... My pug cities usually goes against premade teams that dodge ques and when that happens usually we have no tanks and healers... Pretty much free farm for premade. In my opinion there is 30 min que time. Let premades who wanna do city que in first 20 min and create instance for it. Leave last 10 min to the solo que. Pretty much people who wanna premade are forced to que first 20 min, if no que popping then they arent in, so they can solo que last 10 min.

Whyumadbro
Posts: 485

Re: Cities should definitely have separate queues for PUGs and premades

Post#13 » Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:51 pm

the idea is for you to que up with a team, why people insist that city , ranked and all the competative endgame turns into a WoW like thing where you get handed stuff for participating? leave the endgame content hard, this attitude killed ranked and it will kill citys to

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Ekundu01
Posts: 306

Re: Cities should definitely have separate queues for PUGs and premades

Post#14 » Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:41 pm

Whyumadbro wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:51 pm the idea is for you to que up with a team, why people insist that city , ranked and all the competative endgame turns into a WoW like thing where you get handed stuff for participating? leave the endgame content hard, this attitude killed ranked and it will kill citys to
You would have a point if all classes in this game were equally wanted for end game content. Not all classes are created equal and some are flat out not wanted for city. This sucks because end game gear is tied to the city. I feel like there could be a better system instead of having gear progression locked behind this game mode of cities. But I fear that it has been out so long that to change it would upset the masses and it would be reverted anyways after the flood of tears on the forums.

At least in games like WoW most classes have at least one useful spec they can play some even have more. Even in end game content in WoW no matter what class you play a spot would be open if you were playing the correct spec.
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Evilspinnre
Posts: 366

Re: Cities should definitely have separate queues for PUGs and premades

Post#15 » Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:18 pm

Ekundu01 wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:41 pm
Whyumadbro wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:51 pm the idea is for you to que up with a team, why people insist that city , ranked and all the competative endgame turns into a WoW like thing where you get handed stuff for participating? leave the endgame content hard, this attitude killed ranked and it will kill citys to
You would have a point if all classes in this game were equally wanted for end game content. Not all classes are created equal and some are flat out not wanted for city. This sucks because end game gear is tied to the city. I feel like there could be a better system instead of having gear progression locked behind this game mode of cities. But I fear that it has been out so long that to change it would upset the masses and it would be reverted anyways after the flood of tears on the forums.

At least in games like WoW most classes have at least one useful spec they can play some even have more. Even in end game content in WoW no matter what class you play a spot would be open if you were playing the correct spec.
Every class is wanted for city in the hands of a good player. Some have higher skill ceilings than others.
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b00n
Posts: 192

Re: Cities should definitely have separate queues for PUGs and premades

Post#16 » Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:30 pm

Ekundu01 wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:41 pm At least in games like WoW most classes have at least one useful spec they can play some even have more. Even in end game content in WoW no matter what class you play a spot would be open if you were playing the correct spec.
and how long did WoW not have this system? At the time it became possible, Warhammer was already offline, so your comparison is not valid. I can still remember clearly that you were forced to play frost mage, because otherwise you were not accepted into any raid. And yet now people come and say "in my guild we were allowed blah blah and did all the content".

So far every class has a valid spot in city raids, some only have 1 spot, some have more, but it's still possible. To all the people crying about not getting a spot.... Man, I see a lot of 24-man organizers looking for 15+ minutes for specific spots.... and they don't advertise "1 am/sham for city", they just ask for aoe dps or st dps.

to the queueing system:
The only thing i currently can think of is that, all city queueing should be possible until a certain time and then queueing gets locked and the instances will be handed out right after that timer. Every other attempt (and there have been plenty), will be exploited to allow dodging.
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Grasthard
Posts: 31

Re: Cities should definitely have separate queues for PUGs and premades

Post#17 » Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:52 pm

Sulorie wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:45 pm
Grasthard wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:09 pm I know this subject has been talked a lot recently, and I want to state that IN GENERAL, I am not in favor of having separate queues for pugs and premades when it comes to scenarios etc.
Spoiler:
I am well aware that low population means that having separate queues would make wating times much longer, andas such I do not advocate it.

HOWEVER, city queues are a completely different beast because:

- there is a window to queue for city. all who are interested have 30 min (realistically maybe only 10, if you are solo pug). in this case, the problem of longer waiting times doesn't really apply, as the time is fixed and population is concentrated during the event time. note: i am not advocating to impose 2-2-2 queue. Just ot match premades with premades only, and pugs with pugs only (for which there is plenty from either side)

- cities are "endgame", and they last significantly longer than a scenario. having pugs vs premade is the most miserable experience in the game (if you are on the pug side), and it lasts very long. when you are in a pug, you cannot even try when you have 0 healers vs a full premade. you just afk for one hour for the pity medals. and just to clarify, this is not a rage post: so far, in my last 10 cities have actually experienced the premade side more than the pug one (8-2), and still was awful (even though we were getting tons of free rewards). instead, the best experience I had was when I got into a pug vs pug, both with balanced class composition (ie mroe than 4 healers and tanks per side). fights were nice and not one sided (even though detro won instancew in the end). make endgame more challenging and rewarding for players, instead of a 1-sided snoozefest

implementing this mechanic would also avoid the pityful "queue dodger" tactic, in which premades try to queue last minute to face pugs and get a free farm. one downside ofc would be that if one side has more premade than the other, those premade would not get into city. but I feel this is a marginal problem, which affects mostly veterans (who are probably gearing up their 5th alt on sov). It would, on the other hand, make endgame more challenging and rewarding for new players, as already pointed out in other 2 threads.

You beat a dead horse.

It already tries to match premades.
When one side has more premades, you want to blame the premades and remove their chance to get into the city? No, in this case the premade is matched with anyone else on enemy side, which are more likely people, who don't want to put in the effort to organize a team.
Imagine almost only dps classes are remaining on one side. Do people, who don't want to log a healer/tank to balance out their realm, have the right to get matched with equally horrible setups? Do you want to reward them for this?
Those crap setups get matched with anyone on enemy side, which could be a well build warband too.
yes, that's the idea: pretty much if you want to premade you incur the risk of not getting into any instance. risk vs reward.

Grasthard
Posts: 31

Re: Cities should definitely have separate queues for PUGs and premades

Post#18 » Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:54 pm

Tillirage wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:41 pm Other than todays city... My pug cities usually goes against premade teams that dodge ques and when that happens usually we have no tanks and healers... Pretty much free farm for premade. In my opinion there is 30 min que time. Let premades who wanna do city que in first 20 min and create instance for it. Leave last 10 min to the solo que. Pretty much people who wanna premade are forced to que first 20 min, if no que popping then they arent in, so they can solo que last 10 min.
thisis actually a great idea, which would give people who tried premade and didn't get into an instance to just re-queue as solo

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Grasthard
Posts: 31

Re: Cities should definitely have separate queues for PUGs and premades

Post#19 » Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:59 pm

Ekundu01 wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:41 pm
Whyumadbro wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:51 pm the idea is for you to que up with a team, why people insist that city , ranked and all the competative endgame turns into a WoW like thing where you get handed stuff for participating? leave the endgame content hard, this attitude killed ranked and it will kill citys to
You would have a point if all classes in this game were equally wanted for end game content. Not all classes are created equal and some are flat out not wanted for city. This sucks because end game gear is tied to the city. I feel like there could be a better system instead of having gear progression locked behind this game mode of cities. But I fear that it has been out so long that to change it would upset the masses and it would be reverted anyways after the flood of tears on the forums.

At least in games like WoW most classes have at least one useful spec they can play some even have more. Even in end game content in WoW no matter what class you play a spot would be open if you were playing the correct spec.
indeed. once i got matched vs a pug which had only dps, of which: TEN WE, several marauders and st SH. pretty much the rejects of premade WBs i assume.

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Omegus
Posts: 1373

Re: Cities should definitely have separate queues for PUGs and premades

Post#20 » Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:02 pm

Remember, nobody dodges and everyone dodges.

The question is: why are you pugging in end-game content? Do you do dungeons with 6 random DPS and no tanks healers or do you form a correct group? Cities are no different. Come prepared or expect to lose.

I'm all in favour of adding a gear requirement to cities like ranked (but higher) and properly enforcing the 6/12/24 rule for who can queue up and get into cities. Solo used for backfill only, not for filling out instances. Make it very clear what the expectations are on the playerbase for that level of content.
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