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Cities should definitely have separate queues for PUGs and premades

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emiliorv
Posts: 1222

Re: Cities should definitely have separate queues for PUGs and premades

Post#21 » Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:53 pm

Grasthard wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:52 pm
Spoiler:
Sulorie wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:45 pm
Grasthard wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:09 pm
I know this subject has been talked a lot recently, and I want to state that IN GENERAL, I am not in favor of having separate queues for pugs and premades when it comes to scenarios etc.
Spoiler:
I am well aware that low population means that having separate queues would make wating times much longer, andas such I do not advocate it.

HOWEVER, city queues are a completely different beast because:

- there is a window to queue for city. all who are interested have 30 min (realistically maybe only 10, if you are solo pug). in this case, the problem of longer waiting times doesn't really apply, as the time is fixed and population is concentrated during the event time. note: i am not advocating to impose 2-2-2 queue. Just ot match premades with premades only, and pugs with pugs only (for which there is plenty from either side)

- cities are "endgame", and they last significantly longer than a scenario. having pugs vs premade is the most miserable experience in the game (if you are on the pug side), and it lasts very long. when you are in a pug, you cannot even try when you have 0 healers vs a full premade. you just afk for one hour for the pity medals. and just to clarify, this is not a rage post: so far, in my last 10 cities have actually experienced the premade side more than the pug one (8-2), and still was awful (even though we were getting tons of free rewards). instead, the best experience I had was when I got into a pug vs pug, both with balanced class composition (ie mroe than 4 healers and tanks per side). fights were nice and not one sided (even though detro won instancew in the end). make endgame more challenging and rewarding for players, instead of a 1-sided snoozefest

implementing this mechanic would also avoid the pityful "queue dodger" tactic, in which premades try to queue last minute to face pugs and get a free farm. one downside ofc would be that if one side has more premade than the other, those premade would not get into city. but I feel this is a marginal problem, which affects mostly veterans (who are probably gearing up their 5th alt on sov). It would, on the other hand, make endgame more challenging and rewarding for new players, as already pointed out in other 2 threads.

You beat a dead horse.

It already tries to match premades.
When one side has more premades, you want to blame the premades and remove their chance to get into the city? No, in this case the premade is matched with anyone else on enemy side, which are more likely people, who don't want to put in the effort to organize a team.
Imagine almost only dps classes are remaining on one side. Do people, who don't want to log a healer/tank to balance out their realm, have the right to get matched with equally horrible setups? Do you want to reward them for this?
Those crap setups get matched with anyone on enemy side, which could be a well build warband too.
yes, that's the idea: pretty much if you want to premade you incur the risk of not getting into any instance.
Sure...lets punish (even more) the ppl who make grps to play in a MMO...

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meatcpu
Posts: 66

Re: Cities should definitely have separate queues for PUGs and premades

Post#22 » Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:08 pm

The Devs will never build things to compensate for lack of organization.

Finding an organized group is intimidating at first. Organizing one is even more so. Our best bet is to be modestly more well-organized when a sweaty try-hard group isn't an option for X reason(s). Asking for a group is often less successful than asking for people to join your group, but most don't go that route because there's a sort of implicit understanding that you're calling the shots then. I think if vets were to organize more 6mans we could find a decent middle ground. If you want to win tho organizing is your best bet. Otherwise it's pity medals and hundreds of pugged keeps to BiS.

Sulorie
Posts: 5879

Re: Cities should definitely have separate queues for PUGs and premades

Post#23 » Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:15 pm

Grasthard wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:52 pm

yes, that's the idea: pretty much if you want to premade you incur the risk of not getting into any instance. risk vs reward.
So this is ok for you but you don't want to accept, that joining city without organization, means you more likely lose?
Dying is no option.

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Tillirage
Posts: 33

Re: Cities should definitely have separate queues for PUGs and premades

Post#24 » Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:39 pm

Omegus wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:02 pm
The question is: why are you pugging in end-game content? Do you do dungeons with 6 random DPS and no tanks healers or do you form a correct group? Cities are no different. Come prepared or expect to lose.
Since when people stoped being picky about the people they bring it to the city? Like not taking anymore choppas because aoe dps slot full... If you play dps, good luck on getting in city groups if you aint got a guild or friend groups to get you in. In most cases they got their dps slot is full too because 2-2-2, so if they want to take you in even tho they got a 6 man, they gotta find 1 more dps (which is easy) and 2 more tank and healer.

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Scottx125
Posts: 276

Re: Cities should definitely have separate queues for PUGs and premades

Post#25 » Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:15 am

CyunUnderis wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 8:39 am
mynban wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:51 pm
Right now all 'organized' wb does their absolute best to avoid other organized wbs, and just want to faceroll pugs. This is the reality of organized play in RoR.
All organized WB do not dodge : if you want to have a good set up with people that know how to play, sometimes you can take 15mn of the 30mn timer, sometimes even more. People are always talking about dodging, but they don't know how much time it can take to make a good 24.
Not true. I've been in full guild WB's going into a city and we wait for 1-2 pops before queueing because we know X guild is running a top of the line all BiS WB. And we don't want to get roflstomped because it's not fun. We want a decent fight where we actually stand a chance of winning. It's not because we want to smash pugs, because that's not fun either. We just want to avoid being crushed ourselves. And ultimately someone takes the brunt of the BiS WB and the lucky WB's get the pugs (unfortunate for the pugs). Only way to solve this would be to create a level playing field within cities. That's either some bolstering based on gear/RR or raising the bar of entry requiring RR70/ Invader ToK unlock. Both of those prob aren't great ideas. But the point is for such an important event, people want to win, especially because it's the main source of endgame currency.

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sharpblader
Posts: 151

Re: Cities should definitely have separate queues for PUGs and premades

Post#26 » Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:05 am

I haven't played for sometime but since the time I have been, que dodging has always been prevalent more than not. I've seen streamers and even devs do it shamelessly (who shall not be named), and nothing being done about it.

People are right in saying that forming groups should not be penalized, but an automatic win because of it should be discouraged.

The problem is that there is no long term incentive for proper team fights. I've seen only a few leaders do it regularly but they also tend to wane off. Why? Because the effort needed in fighting against a proper WB is too high with the rewards virtually equal to what they would have been if you pugged solo or rofltstomped a pug within half the time, (allowing you enough time to get those juicy troll country contributions).

Hence, to most, overtime the gameplay starts to feel like work rather than fun and since it is no longer enjoyable, people tend to 'farm' it rather than 'play' it. And when people farm something, they follow the most efficient way for it.

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saupreusse
Former Staff
Posts: 2324

Re: Cities should definitely have separate queues for PUGs and premades

Post#27 » Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:19 am

Grasthard wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:52 pm
yes, that's the idea: pretty much if you want to premade you incur the risk of not getting into any instance. risk vs reward.
This is absolutely not how any of this works.
If you want to pug city solo, you incur the risk of not standing a chance against your opponents. The effort of running organized groups is rewarded.
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Everdin
Posts: 121

Re: Cities should definitely have separate queues for PUGs and premades

Post#28 » Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:34 am

As long as you have classes that won't get warband spot, and as long as warbands are too picky regarding gear, you will have people that are forced to go pug.

As long as you have people forced to play pug and keep the system like it is - you will have dodging premades.

Just let there be 20min que, no instance will open, as soon as 20min expires all pairings will get together based on the numbers they qued with (as long as possible). If there are no more matches try the best to match even numbers of premades and fill with random, then pug together the rest.
#AllClassesMatter

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havartii
Posts: 374

Re: Cities should definitely have separate queues for PUGs and premades

Post#29 » Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:19 am

Having set times for city would give everyone equal opportunity to set up their warbands and fight. Having random cities at 4 am serves a very small population. Other games are proving this to be very successful and WAR needs to get out of the stone age :lol:

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CyunUnderis
Posts: 142

Re: Cities should definitely have separate queues for PUGs and premades

Post#30 » Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:30 pm

Scottx125 wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:15 am
CyunUnderis wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 8:39 am
All organized WB do not dodge : if you want to have a good set up with people that know how to play, sometimes you can take 15mn of the 30mn timer, sometimes even more. People are always talking about dodging, but they don't know how much time it can take to make a good 24.
Not true. I've been in full guild WB's going into a city and we wait for 1-2 pops before queueing because we know X guild is running a top of the line all BiS WB. And we don't want to get roflstomped because it's not fun. We want a decent fight where we actually stand a chance of winning. It's not because we want to smash pugs, because that's not fun either. We just want to avoid being crushed ourselves. And ultimately someone takes the brunt of the BiS WB and the lucky WB's get the pugs (unfortunate for the pugs). Only way to solve this would be to create a level playing field within cities. That's either some bolstering based on gear/RR or raising the bar of entry requiring RR70/ Invader ToK unlock. Both of those prob aren't great ideas. But the point is for such an important event, people want to win, especially because it's the main source of endgame currency.
So your guild dodges and you justify it with the famous "gear gap". That does not mean every organized WBs do. What's your guild name ?

Also, I don't know how many of you have less then Vanquisher set, but if you know how to play a little bit, you can play against other WB. During yesterday's city, we saw a WP with green gears outheal some BiS healers.

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