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Cities should definitely have separate queues for PUGs and premades

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Grasthard
Posts: 31

Cities should definitely have separate queues for PUGs and premades

Post#1 » Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:09 pm

I know this subject has been talked a lot recently, and I want to state that IN GENERAL, I am not in favor of having separate queues for pugs and premades when it comes to scenarios etc.

I am well aware that low population means that having separate queues would make wating times much longer, andas such I do not advocate it.

HOWEVER, city queues are a completely different beast because:

- there is a window to queue for city. all who are interested have 30 min (realistically maybe only 10, if you are solo pug). in this case, the problem of longer waiting times doesn't really apply, as the time is fixed and population is concentrated during the event time. note: i am not advocating to impose 2-2-2 queue. Just ot match premades with premades only, and pugs with pugs only (for which there is plenty from either side)

- cities are "endgame", and they last significantly longer than a scenario. having pugs vs premade is the most miserable experience in the game (if you are on the pug side), and it lasts very long. when you are in a pug, you cannot even try when you have 0 healers vs a full premade. you just afk for one hour for the pity medals. and just to clarify, this is not a rage post: so far, in my last 10 cities have actually experienced the premade side more than the pug one (8-2), and still was awful (even though we were getting tons of free rewards). instead, the best experience I had was when I got into a pug vs pug, both with balanced class composition (ie mroe than 4 healers and tanks per side). fights were nice and not one sided (even though detro won instancew in the end). make endgame more challenging and rewarding for players, instead of a 1-sided snoozefest

implementing this mechanic would also avoid the pityful "queue dodger" tactic, in which premades try to queue last minute to face pugs and get a free farm. one downside ofc would be that if one side has more premade than the other, those premade would not get into city. but I feel this is a marginal problem, which affects mostly veterans (who are probably gearing up their 5th alt on sov). It would, on the other hand, make endgame more challenging and rewarding for new players, as already pointed out in other 2 threads.

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Sulorie
Posts: 7219

Re: Cities should definitely have separate queues for PUGs and premades

Post#2 » Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:45 pm

Grasthard wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:09 pm I know this subject has been talked a lot recently, and I want to state that IN GENERAL, I am not in favor of having separate queues for pugs and premades when it comes to scenarios etc.
Spoiler:
I am well aware that low population means that having separate queues would make wating times much longer, andas such I do not advocate it.

HOWEVER, city queues are a completely different beast because:

- there is a window to queue for city. all who are interested have 30 min (realistically maybe only 10, if you are solo pug). in this case, the problem of longer waiting times doesn't really apply, as the time is fixed and population is concentrated during the event time. note: i am not advocating to impose 2-2-2 queue. Just ot match premades with premades only, and pugs with pugs only (for which there is plenty from either side)

- cities are "endgame", and they last significantly longer than a scenario. having pugs vs premade is the most miserable experience in the game (if you are on the pug side), and it lasts very long. when you are in a pug, you cannot even try when you have 0 healers vs a full premade. you just afk for one hour for the pity medals. and just to clarify, this is not a rage post: so far, in my last 10 cities have actually experienced the premade side more than the pug one (8-2), and still was awful (even though we were getting tons of free rewards). instead, the best experience I had was when I got into a pug vs pug, both with balanced class composition (ie mroe than 4 healers and tanks per side). fights were nice and not one sided (even though detro won instancew in the end). make endgame more challenging and rewarding for players, instead of a 1-sided snoozefest

implementing this mechanic would also avoid the pityful "queue dodger" tactic, in which premades try to queue last minute to face pugs and get a free farm. one downside ofc would be that if one side has more premade than the other, those premade would not get into city. but I feel this is a marginal problem, which affects mostly veterans (who are probably gearing up their 5th alt on sov). It would, on the other hand, make endgame more challenging and rewarding for new players, as already pointed out in other 2 threads.

You beat a dead horse.

It already tries to match premades.
When one side has more premades, you want to blame the premades and remove their chance to get into the city? No, in this case the premade is matched with anyone else on enemy side, which are more likely people, who don't want to put in the effort to organize a team.
Imagine almost only dps classes are remaining on one side. Do people, who don't want to log a healer/tank to balance out their realm, have the right to get matched with equally horrible setups? Do you want to reward them for this?
Those crap setups get matched with anyone on enemy side, which could be a well build warband too.
Dying is no option.

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Phantasm
Posts: 674

Re: Cities should definitely have separate queues for PUGs and premades

Post#3 » Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:48 pm

It doesnt change anything. There is more dps classes than tanks or heals so even if you let queue system to match 2/2/2 pug city leftover players mostly or only dps will whine same way. The only reasonable solution would be to stop city dodging by premades with late queue. It will pair them with other premades on opposite site and let pugs queue against pugs. Make 30 mins to build warbands and parties and hold queue, then open queue for 1 min. Simple.

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normanis
Posts: 1304
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Re: Cities should definitely have separate queues for PUGs and premades

Post#4 » Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:33 pm

or increase cap to 36.
"Iron Within, Iron Without!"

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nebelwerfer
Posts: 646

Re: Cities should definitely have separate queues for PUGs and premades

Post#5 » Sun Oct 24, 2021 6:37 pm

imo it needs improvement for sure

id like to see the city polling pop-up come back to check how things are seen within the community of active players

ask how people feel about cities, does it even need improvement? and there should be options the devs could be interested in implement.

im afraid there is only a small minority visiting and posting on the forums :mrgreen:

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BluIzLucky
Posts: 691

Re: Cities should definitely have separate queues for PUGs and premades

Post#6 » Sun Oct 24, 2021 6:45 pm

Just join a premade when you have vanquisher.. and premade vs pug is miserable on both ends, but at least you get 3-8 times the royals and +30k renown vs 0.

Premade v pug will always be around, they may make changes to reduce it, but until then get organised.

I would normally give more constructive feedback but this thread has been around and discussed a lot already..
SM - Arhalien +80 | AM - Shaheena +80
ZL - Wildera +70 | BG - Blackcrow +70

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mynban
Posts: 204

Re: Cities should definitely have separate queues for PUGs and premades

Post#7 » Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:51 pm

queue dodging is the real issue. Make instances pair only at the end of timer and do it in a way to match highest RR wbs vs each other and majority of problems will be solved.

Right now all 'organized' wb does their absolute best to avoid other organized wbs, and just want to faceroll pugs. This is the reality of organized play in RoR.

Same for SCs, the moment another premade shows up on other side, the loser premade stops queueing. They only stay as long as they can faceroll pugs.

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CyunUnderis
Posts: 480
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Re: Cities should definitely have separate queues for PUGs and premades

Post#8 » Mon Oct 25, 2021 8:39 am

mynban wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:51 pm Right now all 'organized' wb does their absolute best to avoid other organized wbs, and just want to faceroll pugs. This is the reality of organized play in RoR.
All organized WB do not dodge : if you want to have a good set up with people that know how to play, sometimes you can take 15mn of the 30mn timer, sometimes even more. People are always talking about dodging, but they don't know how much time it can take to make a good 24.

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mynban
Posts: 204

Re: Cities should definitely have separate queues for PUGs and premades

Post#9 » Mon Oct 25, 2021 9:03 am

CyunUnderis wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 8:39 am
mynban wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:51 pm Right now all 'organized' wb does their absolute best to avoid other organized wbs, and just want to faceroll pugs. This is the reality of organized play in RoR.
All organized WB do not dodge : if you want to have a good set up with people that know how to play, sometimes you can take 15mn of the 30mn timer, sometimes even more. People are always talking about dodging, but they don't know how much time it can take to make a good 24.
Sorry that is just a cover excuse. WBs intentionally try to delay queueing before certain number of instances pop. They even blatantly say it in /wb chat more often than not.

That is the exact same situation with ranked queue stacking or checking who is online on otherside and queueing based on that. Same mentality, same behaviour.

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Ekundu01
Posts: 306

Re: Cities should definitely have separate queues for PUGs and premades

Post#10 » Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:58 am

CyunUnderis wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 8:39 am
mynban wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:51 pm Right now all 'organized' wb does their absolute best to avoid other organized wbs, and just want to faceroll pugs. This is the reality of organized play in RoR.
All organized WB do not dodge : if you want to have a good set up with people that know how to play, sometimes you can take 15mn of the 30mn timer, sometimes even more. People are always talking about dodging, but they don't know how much time it can take to make a good 24.
Not all players dodge but most are dodging in hopes for an easy stomp. Last weekend I was on early logged into the game and city was happening. Timer was almost at the 5 min mark and only 2 instances but it was early so usually during those hours you only usually see 3-4 instances max. But this was a 5star city. Once the timer went under 5 mins there were 5 more instances that popped up. There is no way there wasn't dodging going on. Even if the last instance wasn't full that is 96 players on each side waiting to try to pug stomp. This is a big problem with city. The other part of the problem with city is not all classes are wanted so this also hurts organized play.
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