Cities should definitely have separate queues for PUGs and premades

[Kaeldrick]

Thats bullsh.. and you know it.

Try to get a spot with AM as long as there are RP or WP with same gear/rank available, same for some dps classes or even tanks.

Are you serious ? If you have a party with a SM, you will replace the WP with the AM to get the insta rez + EoV.

Same for Shaman with a Choppa.

They don't know about how to use WW properly! Don't tell them!

[Everdin]

Thats bullsh.. and you know it.

Try to get a spot with AM as long as there are RP or WP with same gear/rank available, same for some dps classes or even tanks.

Are you serious ? If you have a party with a SM, you will replace the WP with the AM to get the insta rez + EoV.

Same for Shaman with a Choppa.

So, the only possible answer why I never see this "need AM for 24man" leader I have them all on ignore...

[Sulorie]

Thats bullsh.. and you know it.

Try to get a spot with AM as long as there are RP or WP with same gear/rank available, same for some dps classes or even tanks.

Are you serious ? If you have a party with a SM, you will replace the WP with the AM to get the insta rez + EoV.

Same for Shaman with a Choppa.

So, the only possible answer why I never see this "need AM for 24man" leader I have them all on ignore...

Or they fill the AM slots quickly, you don't need more AM's than SM's in your warband anyway.
Proper supported AM/sham outshines any other healer in tight area fights e.g. City Siege.

[Everdin]

Are you serious ? If you have a party with a SM, you will replace the WP with the AM to get the insta rez + EoV.

Same for Shaman with a Choppa.

So, the only possible answer why I never see this "need AM for 24man" leader I have them all on ignore...

Or they fill the AM slots quickly, you don't need more AM's than SM's in your warband anyway.
Proper supported AM/sham outshines any other healer in tight area fights e.g. City Siege.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about AM, I know what a AM can do, but in fact it is a lot harder to get a place. If you have decent gear and rank with RP/WP you will find a place as long as not all warbands are full.

Same with other classes like SW or WH, of course both can contribute to a city. But you wont find many prebuild warbands with a lot of them in it. Playing one of those classes in endgame needs a lot of patience. If you are a slayer, your only fear is a slayer with better gear or rank.

[nebelwerfer]

To take a jab at the issue in the OP, an easy fix for this is to re-implement loot from gold bags strictly in premade scenarios, maybe a greater number of tokens so you can get any piece you want.

Winners should obviously get more, but premade losers should also get to roll for some gold bags for their effort.

This combined with shortening the duration of the city should let the premades que multiple times, ensuring that as many as possible get a pop, solving the problem for those unfortunate guys waiting for a long time and never getting a pop, be it wether they are locked out of the outnumbered side or whatever..

To shorten the duration simply implement a killcount on stage 1 PQ so that a side can get wiped maximum 3 times before the stage progresses, then you can make the teleport to BO instant and lastly implement a .ready and .surrender command for the intervals / stages that are just hopeless.

Also compress stage 3 by making champs gradually lose their stats right off the bat and shorten the duration of the champion stage.

I think that should do plenty for the quality and quantity of capitol fights.

[tomato]

Every single class is viable in competitive 24vs24 cities.

Most players are not viable.

It's not that your class doesn't fit, it's just that people are bad.

[mogt]

yeah tomato you are right. the problem are the player himself, many dont want read heir skills etc and use their brain for waht is important and what not, many players want easy wins, easy mechanics,without use brain cells, that is the problem, the learn curve are very low.

[Skullgrin]

You don't need to have separate pug and premade queues.

What needs to be done is phase one needs to be revamped. Forcing everyone into a funnel at the center Battlefield Objective is the root of the problem. Doing this amplifies any imbalances between the two sides, leading to an instant demoralization of the losing side which then leads to people leaving the instance, causing even more of an imbalance.

Instead of forcing the attacking side to the center Battlefield Objective by having it be the only one to be unlocked for capture, all of the Battlefield Objectives should be unlocked from the beginning, forcing both sides to make actual tactical decisions on where to defend. This would have the benefit of both sides having to split up their forces, thus lessening large scale imbalances between both sides.

Make it about who has the better tactics, not who has the best group setup.

[Sulorie]

You don't need to have separate pug and premade queues.

What needs to be done is phase one needs to be revamped. Forcing everyone into a funnel at the center Battlefield Objective is the root of the problem. Doing this amplifies any imbalances between the two sides, leading to an instant demoralization of the losing side which then leads to people leaving the instance, causing even more of an imbalance.

Instead of forcing the attacking side to the center Battlefield Objective by having it be the only one to be unlocked for capture, all of the Battlefield Objectives should be unlocked from the beginning, forcing both sides to make actual tactical decisions on where to defend. This would have the benefit of both sides having to split up their forces, thus lessening large scale imbalances between both sides.

Make it about who has the better tactics, not who has the best group setup.

When both sides have to split among several objectives, which side has it easier to coordinate?

The premade on voice or a bunch of solo players?

People will just be busy running from flag to flag and try to dodge fights instead of fighting the opposition.
Similar to old TV SC.

[Skullgrin]

When both sides have to split among several objectives, which side has it easier to coordinate?

The premade on voice or a bunch of solo players?

This would be a prime example of using better tactics.

People will just be busy running from flag to flag and try to dodge fights instead of fighting the opposition.
Similar to old TV SC.

Maybe, but they won't be leaving the instance. And frankly something needs to be done, because most city instances are pretty much over in the first 10 minutes if the sides are imbalanced at all...