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Realm Champions not needed, we need Time Zone Champions

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Meliannia
Posts: 276

Realm Champions not needed, we need Time Zone Champions

Post#1 » Sat Jan 22, 2022 12:53 pm

Hail all,
In the Grand Scheme of things the classes and the class balances are not too bad, they almost work a lot of the time.
yes ppl moan about destro have 2 frontal mobile melee pulls while Order strangely have none
yes ppl moan about slayer Rampage
yes ppl moan that rSH is loved and shad is hated
yes ppl moan about WE is regularly buffed and WH strangely is ignored
yes ppl moan about WE having perma snare
yes ppl moan about WL being utterly dismantled over 1 yr ago now so sorcs and rshs and shammies can proliferate
yes ppl moan about shammies
yes shammies moan about dps ams
yes ppl moan about maru faceroll aoe kd
yes ppl moan about destro melee blob
yes ppl maon about order ranged in forts
yes ppl moan about wp vs dok, or bg punt vs IB punt

but this, friends and neighbours, is the NOT the key issue effecting game balance and i fear the creation of Realm Champions would overlook the key issue spoiling the game
the main issue is nothing to do with classes

the issue which ruins the game is simply Population faction numbers, for most of the day one faction completely outnumbers the other faction, no amount of class balance can change this or make one iota of difference to the outcome of 1 faction facerolling zones all day long
when the 558 cccp log on (many of whom are 80 to 99) and play destro 16 to 20 hrs a day every day it makes the players who are unlucky to be playing CET and GMT Order broken
when 80 to 100 x realmers are allowed to run to destro to join the 558 cccp rank 80 to 99s it makes Order unplayable for those unlucky to have their prime time at the same time as this
Population is now regularly 65 to 72% destro in CET GMT time.

its numbers that need balancing not classes. The outcome of the game is currently determined not by which class you play but by which time zone you play.

when the cccp go to bed and NA west coast order log in, it's the same issue for destro (but not as bad)
but the 100 xrealmers then run back to Order and abandon destro making the issue worse for destro

it doesn't matter if Ream Champions balance DoKs vs wps
because for 16hrs day you'll have 88 doks fighting vs only 24 wps , so the class balance doesn't matter, because 24 doesn't beat 88, it's the sheer NUMBERS for 1 faction vs the other that matter
it doesn't matter if Realm Champions balance Sorcs vs Bright wizards
because for 16hrs a day you'll have 110 sorcs vs 32 bright wizards. so class balance doesn't matter because 32 can't beat 110, its NUMBERS that matter

so if realm champions work damn hard to achieve almost perfect balance between classes all their work DOESNT MATTTER because it will still be 580 vs 220 or 80 vs 230
and 220 cant beat 580, and 80 cant beat 230, it's the faction NUMBERS that need balancing
small scale, 1 vs 1, 6 vs 6, some scenarios it may help, but holistically it doesn't matter a dime because of the faction imbalance in numbers.

Solutions
1.log in numbers for one faction need to be frozen when the larger faction reaches 55% and no more can log in or x realm to that faction til the other faction gets to 50%, then you are allowed up to 55% again, rinse repeat. You could limit this to a zone, so ppl could log into the game, but not the overload zone.
(If possible you could make this effect level 40s only, or maybe even 16 to 40 as this effects ORVR), that would require more work but the results would be worth it for the game balance you seek.
2. x realming needs a 24hr lockout

Unfortunately, neither of these solutions the devs/gms have shown any interest in and have many times publicly stated they will never cap faction numbers ( we still hope that x realm lock out might be looked at, fingers crossed)
so with an unwillingness to accept 580 vs 220 for 16 to 20 hrs a day all day every day ad infinitum, is the issue then NOTHING you do as Realm Champions will matter. Sorry.

The issue is faction numbers allowed to log on at the same time all day every day making the game no fun at all and virtually unplayable for the smaller faction as more and more quit or flood to the larger faction. I remember when I first started Destro was 52% to 55% and i was told dont worry these things change it won't last, and they were right, it then became destro 55 to 58% and they said dont worry these things change it wont last,, and they were right, and then it was destro 58 to 62% and they said don't worry its only temporary these things change, and they were right, now its 65 to 72% destro and on we go.....
you can balance the classes all u want but if u got 110 sorcs quad critting u for 11k and 100 marus and choppas pulling u to insta kill blob death and all Order have back are 24 bws and 22 slayers it doesnt matter if those slayers and bws are perfectly balanced because they are VASTLY OUTNUMBERED. It's not even close or heroically playable, there is zero or 1 order wb vs 5 to 7 destro wbs so people give up, go pve, quit, or run to destro. They log out their perfectly balanced Runepriest who is losing and being killed non stop zone after zone and log in their perfectly balanced Zealot who is winning and racking in the kills non stop, and taking zone after zone, keep after keep, fort after fort

class balance is irrelevant when u have spiraling out of control faction numbers imbalance on a daily basis
get the faction imbalance in hand as the primary goal, then look at the individual classes as the secondary step, sure thing, it's a noble well intentioned pursuit. but you have to prioritize and have the will and courage tackle the elephant in the room.

let us think of class balance as you are way too hot irl so u need to take off a jumper or your shirt yes of course if you're way too hot u need get a glass of water maybe or get that pullover off,
but the reason you're way too hot is because your house is burning down, so maybe its best to forget the glass of water for now and save your house from burning down or just get the hell out of the house.
or you could stubbornly refuse to acknowledge your house is in flames and simply take that jumper off and look for better ways to get to the kitchen to get that glass of water or look which pullovers can be removed quicker nodding your head sagely as the flames lick higher and more and more people bail from the building building and quit while you are rummaging in your wardrobe for the correctly fitting balanced pullover.

The X-realmers have no loyalty and put self gain above community above game balance, many don't give a fig for game balance and they must have self gain and self gratification at all costs. This is what drives them self gain.
and those who look for game balance are NOT driven by self gain but by fairness and a community magnanimous spirit, Communality spirit and fairness are not compatible with those who seek self gain and power at all costs.

If the Powers That Be wont even look at faction lock out to balance nunbers, then at least get that 24hr lock out on xrealmers, the Community voted for this and STILL wants this and it would be a large step in the right direction and large Dutch finger inserted fairly with steadfast courage into the hole in the dyke. The Powers That Be showed this moral courage with banning cheatings Nerf Buttons, now show this same courage a second time.

'They are X-Realmers, Captain, do NOT trust them. They are without honour" - Lt. Worf.


'Swords In The Wind!"

The Mel.
Last edited by Meliannia on Sat Jan 22, 2022 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Sulorie
Posts: 7219

Re: Realm Champions not needed, we need Time Zone Champions

Post#2 » Sat Jan 22, 2022 1:11 pm

What's this talk all time about over9000 cccp rr90+ players? You can get 5p sov, what most players are using, long before rr90 and min-maxing past 80 by doing ranked SC gives slight improvements, which are at best one reason besides many, when you lose a fight. Both sides can be in sov and 80+ and still one sides gets humiliated.
Last edited by Sulorie on Sat Jan 22, 2022 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Boernsen
Posts: 16

Re: Realm Champions not needed, we need Time Zone Champions

Post#3 » Sat Jan 22, 2022 1:53 pm

Sounds like l2p issue

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provide
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Re: Realm Champions not needed, we need Time Zone Champions

Post#4 » Sat Jan 22, 2022 2:00 pm

Good post, sadly I gave up a long time ago that these big issues will ever get addressed. I won't go into it here, but you touched on the root problem, the willingness or competence to see the underlying issues. That's why I come back to the game once a year for a couple weeks, have fun with the combat mechanics, and move along when I get bored of that.

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Glorian
Posts: 4976

Re: Realm Champions not needed, we need Time Zone Champions

Post#5 » Sat Jan 22, 2022 2:20 pm

If you are number locking one side you are locking guild warbands from forming on their side. And you are locking players that play on only side from playing.

If this is happening to you, you will look two times for 30 minutes on the queue and then start playing another game with no queues.
How do you want to prevent this?

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provide
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Re: Realm Champions not needed, we need Time Zone Champions

Post#6 » Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:02 pm

Glorian wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 2:20 pm If you are number locking one side you are locking guild warbands from forming on their side. And you are locking players that play on only side from playing.

If this is happening to you, you will look two times for 30 minutes on the queue and then start playing another game with no queues.
How do you want to prevent this?
Then make it a dynamic system. These are all problems that are solved in other MMOs already. You always face the same challenges when you have game worlds where you have to limit the amount of people in a specific zone/server (And all MMOs have to do this). One way to avoid locking out people completely would be to allow warbands, already in the limited area, to still invite people that are not already in it. It's, as always, not prefect but it would be a much better system than not having a system in place at all. If a "population system" would be in place that could at least be tweaked till you get a good (better) overall result, even dynamically. But as I pointed at before, finding a solution is not the problem, the willingness and competence to implement it is.

sergteo
Posts: 43

Re: Realm Champions not needed, we need Time Zone Champions

Post#7 » Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:16 pm

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Lindisfarne
Posts: 357
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Re: Realm Champions not needed, we need Time Zone Champions

Post#8 » Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:38 pm

Tldr, make mercenary system u can que for too play on overpop side for a bonus for a certain amount of time
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wonshot
Posts: 1101

Re: Realm Champions not needed, we need Time Zone Champions

Post#9 » Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:58 pm

I do agree with the overall sentiment about "career changes will not affect population issues" and that after a certain level of being outnumbered you just dont stand much of a chance, let alone have too much fun.

But i think that is more of a topic about how AAO is not attractive enough and it doesnt actually give you any tools to fight as underdog. :roll:

Right now renown is imho barely a focus point for players, you gain it at a decent rate and the bottleneck is the tokens. Going to the underdog side to farm AAO is very rarely the case but instead joining the zerging side to get bagrolls is way more progressive for your advancement into sets.

AAO "only" giving renown is therefor not attractive for smallerman groups, who lately have been zergsurfing instead of trying to zergbust or cut of latecommers to a siege or distrupt supplylines.
AAO not scaling with objecive rp ticks is one minior issue to not promote splitting out the action, but also the safety in numbers with how easy zone zerging is. 3/5 BOs required to lock a zone makes it close to impossible to do any zerg-splitting after a keep is lost, and BOs holding no value during a keep siege makes all the action concentrated at one location instead of using the full map.

Population imballance wouldnt be as much of an issue if there was more attraction and options to being outnumbered, the way i see it. And most of it stims from Battleobjectives having too little impact during most of the zone-duration.

As for people crossrealm or winnerjoining, that will always be a topic when the game is free to play and you can have several accounts. The ingame systems need to adress the zerging promotion to sovlve the limmited options of being outnumberd, no matter what timezone and activity on the server.
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Meliannia
Posts: 276

Re: Realm Champions not needed, we need Time Zone Champions

Post#10 » Sat Jan 22, 2022 4:33 pm

we discussed this in chat today in game
a Gm intervened and said it was 'anti-russian' and threatened me to be silent

no one is anti-russian
i tried to point out it is the NUMBERS that are the issue not the player nationality

if 250 russians played order and 250 russians played destro it'd be no issue
but 90 to 95% of them play destro, every day all day, for the same time zone, so its an issue for Order who play at that time.

if 550 spanish all played destro at the same time itd be an issue again, due to the numbers all playign 1 faction at the same time not the nationality

if 558 italians all played at the same time its no issue if they play destro and order half and half, but if they all or almost all play Order then its a problem for those who play destro at that time zone

it is the elephant in the room
and it seems the road is harder than we thought if a GM wishes to not only ignore the discussion but try to suppress it,

im hoping this gm was a one off and misguided and misunderstood , as other players did speak out and said no1 is anti anythign, it is about the numbers one side has. Logistics and maths. No emotion.

if 550 of any nationality all play 1 faction at the same time its blatantly obvious this is a problem for BALANCE, trying to have this view suppressed is wrong and worrying.


There is no point looking at class balance until the faction numbers balance is resolved or improved. No-one is anti anything, except being anti 72% vs 28% for 16hrs a day every day

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