Go to the kill board. Check your weekly and monthly kills. I hardly think that stealthers are the problem. Unless you are solo or in a small man group. Wh/We need to pick their targets very well.
You need to set your class up for what you want to do. Its not that their get away tools are too good. Its that your have not figured out how to stop them.
The problem with stealth classes
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Structured class balance suggestions belong in the Balance Proposal subforum. Class-related discussion in this section are considered as ongoing debates and ARE NOT reviewed for balance changes.
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Re: The problem with stealth classes
Jump away stagger > Stealth, can't be stopped unless you you're a dwarf with SoSShogun4138 wrote: ↑Sat May 07, 2022 3:03 amIts not that their get away tools are too good. Its that your have not figured out how to stop them.
M1, Repel, Magnus/Cauldron > Stealth, can't be stopped if your class doesn't have quick undefendable attacks spammable for the duration of the defensive
Absorb pot > Stealth is another thing that is pretty hard to stop, coz you need to do up to 2k damage in 2 seconds to break through it
Quickstealth > Stealth is another combo that can potentially lave no option to stop it - if stealther's positioning is good enough to juke you and get out of potential AoE spam
Am i wrong somewhere?
Orkni 85+ (in-game Grock is not me...)
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- Posts: 119
Re: The problem with stealth classes
You are. I m not going to tell you, as I play a WE. I can't give up the weak point. Otherwise you may get good.Grock wrote: ↑Sat May 07, 2022 2:51 pmJump away stagger > Stealth, can't be stopped unless you you're a dwarf with SoSShogun4138 wrote: ↑Sat May 07, 2022 3:03 amIts not that their get away tools are too good. Its that your have not figured out how to stop them.
M1, Repel, Magnus/Cauldron > Stealth, can't be stopped if your class doesn't have quick undefendable attacks spammable for the duration of the defensive
Absorb pot > Stealth is another thing that is pretty hard to stop, coz you need to do up to 2k damage in 2 seconds to break through it
Quickstealth > Stealth is another combo that can potentially lave no option to stop it - if stealther's positioning is good enough to juke you and get out of potential AoE spam
Am i wrong somewhere?
Gogo 80we
Mudflinga 81rSH
Zenzo chosen**
Mudflinga 81rSH
Zenzo chosen**
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- Posts: 3
Re: The problem with stealth classes
lol that's very funny this is coming from a guy who plays OP SM and not OP WL but pretty strong still plays AM and plays KOtbs , BO and others... I think your issue is literly learn to play but that's fine we are not all good at this game. However you would think person who has multiple toons and multiple toons over 80RR knows how to play...I bet you one of the guy who was using NB too and was defending it ... but it's ok more power to you !Panzer80 wrote: ↑Sun May 01, 2022 10:38 pm Been playing game for 2 years now, have a WH (not endgame yet), fought WE/WH many times. The problem with these classes is they are over done atm. Stealth classes should exist on a knife edge. Like the ninja, get in, time it right, get out. Problem is that much of the risk is taken away from these classes by abilities/tactics that make up for the inherent fragility of the class with absorbs, one button 100% parry, double stealth, hop back, hop ins, etc, which just turn these classes into tanks in small game situations. Again the point should be, time it right, un-stealth, kill, get out. Screw up and you loose. Not hang around unfearful of the 8-10 enemies about, because you can just absorb/parry/jump/stealth away again, which is what we see.
One suggestion I can think of is changing stealth to become much less effective when closer to more enemies, or change the effectiveness of the lesser stealth. Another being to change tank creep abilities and tactics like absorbs, and 100% parry to passive damage instead of passive defenses.
You can't make the argument that stealth classes exist on a knife edge atm, it's just not true, as ALL classes exist on a knife edge to a solid degree if they're roaming around solo in the lakes. That's just how it is. We already see stealth classes huddling around 6-12 mans in the lakes as is, changes of the type I'm suggesting would just make the solo roaming riskier. Stealth classes already get the high rr rewards.
Re: The problem with stealth classes
How about they fix all the Wh and We bugs first and then balance them?
Re: The problem with stealth classes
Solo shaman is op, solo am is op, solo regen gear chosen is op, solo sw is op, solo we is op, solo wh is op, solo rsh is op, if put in the right situations and played how they should be played.
Thankfully it's not the people in this thread that decide anything, literally the most clueless people with multiple rr80+ characters, baffling really.
The amount of bullshit written is crazy, you guys dont even know how these builds work and yet you are commenting, you dont know how the class works and yet you are suggesting things... even OP says he hasn't reached endgame yet giving his enlightened opinion, rotfl. Stick to your classes which you can barely play.
1s cast time on vanish must be the stupidest **** I have read in months.
Thankfully it's not the people in this thread that decide anything, literally the most clueless people with multiple rr80+ characters, baffling really.
The amount of bullshit written is crazy, you guys dont even know how these builds work and yet you are commenting, you dont know how the class works and yet you are suggesting things... even OP says he hasn't reached endgame yet giving his enlightened opinion, rotfl. Stick to your classes which you can barely play.
1s cast time on vanish must be the stupidest **** I have read in months.
- Sinisterror
- Posts: 838
Re: The problem with stealth classes
Complaining about other's suggestion while offering nothing back is The better way! Normal stealth has 1s cast and vanish ignores GCD so it would still Be better than normal stealth. Ive also suggested adding double Kiss procs Back that WE could get live. Also wanted Vanish to Be core skill. removing all ICDS on all procs or 05s max and lots More.redsunbp wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 1:31 pm Solo shaman is op, solo am is op, solo regen gear chosen is op, solo sw is op, solo we is op, solo wh is op, solo rsh is op, if put in the right situations and played how they should be played.
Thankfully it's not the people in this thread that decide anything, literally the most clueless people with multiple rr80+ characters, baffling really.
The amount of bullshit written is crazy, you guys dont even know how these builds work and yet you are commenting, you dont know how the class works and yet you are suggesting things... even OP says he hasn't reached endgame yet giving his enlightened opinion, rotfl. Stick to your classes which you can barely play.
1s cast time on vanish must be the stupidest **** I have read in months.
"To clarify, me asking to developers to go test their own changes is not sign of toxicity or anger, but a sign of hope that the people punching in the numbers remain aware of potential consequences and test their own changes"-Teefz
- sharpblader
- Posts: 298
Re: The problem with stealth classes
WE and WH escape tools can be countered to a certain extent but they are very powerful when used correctly.Shogun4138 wrote: ↑Sat May 07, 2022 3:41 pmYou are. I m not going to tell you, as I play a WE. I can't give up the weak point. Otherwise you may get good.Grock wrote: ↑Sat May 07, 2022 2:51 pmJump away stagger > Stealth, can't be stopped unless you you're a dwarf with SoSShogun4138 wrote: ↑Sat May 07, 2022 3:03 amIts not that their get away tools are too good. Its that your have not figured out how to stop them.
M1, Repel, Magnus/Cauldron > Stealth, can't be stopped if your class doesn't have quick undefendable attacks spammable for the duration of the defensive
Absorb pot > Stealth is another thing that is pretty hard to stop, coz you need to do up to 2k damage in 2 seconds to break through it
Quickstealth > Stealth is another combo that can potentially lave no option to stop it - if stealther's positioning is good enough to juke you and get out of potential AoE spam
Am i wrong somewhere?
Maybe sharing their own weak points and still being able to defeat opponents can make one a better player.
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Re: The problem with stealth classes
Someone should please enlighten how to counter a 6 second undefendable stagger + self punt and stealth away. Lol i'd love to hear it.sharpblader wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 6:50 pmWE and WH escape tools can be countered to a certain extent but they are very powerful when used correctly.Shogun4138 wrote: ↑Sat May 07, 2022 3:41 pmYou are. I m not going to tell you, as I play a WE. I can't give up the weak point. Otherwise you may get good.Grock wrote: ↑Sat May 07, 2022 2:51 pm
Jump away stagger > Stealth, can't be stopped unless you you're a dwarf with SoS
M1, Repel, Magnus/Cauldron > Stealth, can't be stopped if your class doesn't have quick undefendable attacks spammable for the duration of the defensive
Absorb pot > Stealth is another thing that is pretty hard to stop, coz you need to do up to 2k damage in 2 seconds to break through it
Quickstealth > Stealth is another combo that can potentially lave no option to stop it - if stealther's positioning is good enough to juke you and get out of potential AoE spam
Am i wrong somewhere?
Maybe sharing their own weak points and still being able to defeat opponents can make one a better player.
Detangler and alts - 84 Chosen, other 40s - DoK, Zealot, SH, WE, BG, BO
Destro - Mostly Harmless
Tangler and alts - 8X IB, other 40s - RP, SM
Order - Most dishonorable
Destro - Mostly Harmless
Tangler and alts - 8X IB, other 40s - RP, SM
Order - Most dishonorable
- sharpblader
- Posts: 298
Re: The problem with stealth classes
Like I said, to a certain extent.Detangler wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 9:56 pmSomeone should please enlighten how to counter a 6 second undefendable stagger + self punt and stealth away. Lol i'd love to hear it.sharpblader wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 6:50 pmWE and WH escape tools can be countered to a certain extent but they are very powerful when used correctly.Shogun4138 wrote: ↑Sat May 07, 2022 3:41 pm
You are. I m not going to tell you, as I play a WE. I can't give up the weak point. Otherwise you may get good.
Maybe sharing their own weak points and still being able to defeat opponents can make one a better player.
When it comes to the stagger, there is little one can do to prevent it if you get the jump on a WH/WE.
With Slayers ID + Reckless Gamble up, WEs stagger will break at every ID tick however.
The actual counter is if WE/WH open and use KD on you since they can't stagger then. This gives you a 27 second window to kill them as they can't stealth till then either.
This mechanic is one of the reasons why the WE and WH have the luxury of choosing their fights.
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