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GCD and AP proposal

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Structured class balance suggestions belong in the Balance Proposal subforum. Class-related discussion in this section are considered as ongoing debates and ARE NOT reviewed for balance changes.
Sulorie
Posts: 7219

Re: GCD and AP proposal

Post#31 » Sun May 22, 2022 3:16 pm

Truelyyy wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 12:21 pm I'm assuming from a dev POV this is to fix issues but this fix gameplay-wise will be worse that what it was originally so for the majority of players so in some sense it's not really a fix it just makes the game a lot worse.
Did you thought back then as well, that the game feels slow?
To balance skills we would have to make all long casts faster to make them equal in performance to instant casts, while keeping their power.
Dying is no option.

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marcskk
Posts: 7

Re: GCD and AP proposal

Post#32 » Sun May 22, 2022 9:06 pm

The changes are great. People just need to adapt to it. Veteran shouldn't have any issues with it hence only the newbies will complains.

Truelyyy
Posts: 22

Re: GCD and AP proposal

Post#33 » Sun May 22, 2022 10:27 pm

@sulorie I don't understand your question, did I think what back when? with the 1.15s GCD or what it was felt good

@marc what do you like about the changes?

Sulorie
Posts: 7219

Re: GCD and AP proposal

Post#34 » Sun May 22, 2022 10:35 pm

Truelyyy wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 10:27 pm @sulorie I don't understand your question, did I think what back when? with the 1.15s GCD or what it was felt good
On live servers you played with ~1,5s gcd.
Dying is no option.

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Haojin
Posts: 1062

Re: GCD and AP proposal

Post#35 » Mon May 23, 2022 7:31 am

Sulorie wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 10:35 pm
Truelyyy wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 10:27 pm @sulorie I don't understand your question, did I think what back when? with the 1.15s GCD or what it was felt good
On live servers you played with ~1,5s gcd.
on live servers you also played with 36 morale per second.
on live servers you also played with doomflayer and warpforged sets.
on live you also played with different combat formula.
on live you also played with un-nerfed chosen/bo morale pumps.
on live you also played with crit tactics with roids.
on live you also played with the weapons with high crit chance.

shall i continue or is it enough you to understand that live was live, ror is ror and justifying a bad change via "because live was like that" is a fail argument. there is a thin line between debating with passion and fanboying like a bot in my humble opinion.
Guildmaster of Phalanx

K8P - Karak Norn

Sulorie
Posts: 7219

Re: GCD and AP proposal

Post#36 » Mon May 23, 2022 7:40 am

Haojin wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 7:31 am
on live servers you also played with 36 morale per second.
on live servers you also played with doomflayer and warpforged sets.
on live you also played with different combat formula.
on live you also played with un-nerfed chosen/bo morale pumps.
on live you also played with crit tactics with roids.
on live you also played with the weapons with high crit chance.

shall i continue or is it enough you to understand that live was live, ror is ror and justifying a bad change via "because live was like that" is a fail argument. there is a thin line between debating with passion and fanboying like a bot in my humble opinion.
May you explain how higher crit rates, moral gain and overall higher gear stats influence how "slow" the game feels? Being really curious as this is the main complaint here and all those points you mentioned don't affect how fast or responsive you can execute skills.
Dying is no option.

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Earthcake
Posts: 251

Re: GCD and AP proposal

Post#37 » Mon May 23, 2022 7:43 am

Some classes didn't even exist at the beginning, so if we want to experience the real OG AoR i think it's time to remove them from the game...

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Haojin
Posts: 1062

Re: GCD and AP proposal

Post#38 » Mon May 23, 2022 8:35 am

Sulorie wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 7:40 am May you explain how higher crit rates, moral gain and overall higher gear stats influence how "slow" the game feels? Being really curious as this is the main complaint here and all those points you mentioned don't affect how fast or responsive you can execute skills.
Main argument was justifying a bad change via "because live was like that" is a fail one. Those examples given due to point out ror is ror, aor is aor. How live features affect TTK is another topic.

Let's start with a simplified basic math then (with 10 seconds window and same ability does 100 damage):

You managed to cast around 9 abilities in 10 seconds before which is: 9*100 = 900 total damage
With new changes you can cast 6-7 abilites at best which is: 6*100 = 600 total damage in 10 seconds.

as you can see
600 damage in 10 seconds < 900 damage in 10 seconds !!11

hope this helps.
Guildmaster of Phalanx

K8P - Karak Norn

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Acidic
Posts: 2045
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Re: GCD and AP proposal

Post#39 » Mon May 23, 2022 11:23 am

This change effects the instant casts ( 1sec or less) and effectively nerfed them while the channeled longer cast get no impact from the GCD change.
The result is that sleepy mode , typically stationary game play ( group heal effectively unchanged and long cast ) remain unchanged so effectively improving their value. This has been done without any adjustment to the longer cast time spells or buffing those nerfed by the change.

As the balance of skills has been done on effective output (which includes old gcd) I can not understand a patch which alters output potential without adjusting the skills appropriately or mentioning that the change was implemented directly to affect short vs long cast skills. Ie let’s go dumb mode
Last edited by Acidic on Mon May 23, 2022 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Jeliel80
Posts: 121

Re: GCD and AP proposal

Post#40 » Mon May 23, 2022 11:28 am

Yeah I never get the reasoning "we're changing it cause live worked like that".
As a matter of fact I've expressed many times the opinion that they shouldn't have messed with combat mechanics and gameplay too much, to begin with.
QoL changes instead have been mostly pretty good and I would have kept working on that (which they kept doing).

Nerfing mostly order crit rates was the first step of ruining overall realm balance, as it created a massive advantage in the morale game.
After a long while they realized that they had to tune down morale game, and so on.
It created a cascade of balance problems, forcing bandaids after bandaids.

Based on the above, about the current GCD and AP changes, they make absolutely zero sense to me.
Gameplay feels clunky and slower (as it is slower obviously :D ) and starving for AP only adds to the feel.

All that imo, of course.
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