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Hysteri4
Posts: 15

Communication

Post#1 » Sat May 21, 2022 10:36 am

The current patch introduced an enormous change to the gameplay and the reception has been mixed, to say the least. My biggest issue with what happened isn't even the change itself, it's how poorly it was communicated. Everything we got from the patchnotes was
- The 1.5 second Global Cooldowns are now more strictly checked and the server will no longer allow casting abilities slightly before the Global Cooldown ends.
That's it.

No mention of what changed from before (what exactly were the effects of the GCD not being checked strictly)
No mention of why the changes even happened. Was it just to get RoR closer to live? Do the devs believe that slowing down the gameplay in general will make the game better? Was it to rebalance the power of certain classes?
No mention of the finality of this change. Is it just a quick test run or is it supposed to stay like this forever?
No mention on whether the devs were aware of the fact that this would be very controversial change.

My interest in playing right now has dropped a lot. But it's not because of the changes themselves, it's because of this feeling of uncertainty. I want to know why things are happenening. I want to have enough information to judge whether I agree with the reasoning of the people in charge. Is there a well thought out intention behind a change or are the changes done because someone important 'feels like it'?
I want to know where this ship is going.

Thank you for reading my blog post.

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Sulorie
Posts: 7219

Re: Communication

Post#2 » Sat May 21, 2022 10:58 am

Instant casts were used more often than intended compared to abilities with cast time, dots or AA atk.
On live we had the same buffs to keep up and a similarly restrictive gcd and it worked without issues, so the world doesn't end because of it.
Live balanced wasn't good, buff heavy classes like IB were not great, so some tweaks to buff duration might be necessary.
I agree that the communication on this patch was bad.
Dying is no option.

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Scottx125
Posts: 965

Re: Communication

Post#3 » Sat May 21, 2022 11:58 am

Hysteri4 wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 10:36 am The current patch introduced an enormous change to the gameplay and the reception has been mixed, to say the least. My biggest issue with what happened isn't even the change itself, it's how poorly it was communicated. Everything we got from the patchnotes was
- The 1.5 second Global Cooldowns are now more strictly checked and the server will no longer allow casting abilities slightly before the Global Cooldown ends.
That's it.

No mention of what changed from before (what exactly were the effects of the GCD not being checked strictly)
No mention of why the changes even happened. Was it just to get RoR closer to live? Do the devs believe that slowing down the gameplay in general will make the game better? Was it to rebalance the power of certain classes?
No mention of the finality of this change. Is it just a quick test run or is it supposed to stay like this forever?
No mention on whether the devs were aware of the fact that this would be very controversial change.

My interest in playing right now has dropped a lot. But it's not because of the changes themselves, it's because of this feeling of uncertainty. I want to know why things are happenening. I want to have enough information to judge whether I agree with the reasoning of the people in charge. Is there a well thought out intention behind a change or are the changes done because someone important 'feels like it'?
I want to know where this ship is going.

Thank you for reading my blog post.
You do see the sign at the top saying 'Alpha Phase' right? Your progress could be wiped at any second. And this was a known issue with the GCD from years ago. Could they have communicated it better? Probably. But it's done and I doubt they'll revert the changes.
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Dinotron
Posts: 38

Re: Communication

Post#4 » Sat May 21, 2022 4:04 pm

You do see the sign at the top saying 'Alpha Phase' right?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Dabbart
Posts: 2248

Re: Communication

Post#5 » Sat May 21, 2022 4:18 pm

"I want to have enough information to judge whether I agree with the reasoning of the people in charge."

Why? Is your agreement or disagreement relevant? Is their reasoning relevant to your agreement of the outcome? Will a solid statement alter your perception of a change?

This isn't a new phenomenon. Take what they give you and say thanks for the work. If you dislike a change, argue for why it should be altered. The onus of argument lies with us. We have to convince them, not the other way around.

The way you want it, the way it should be, and the way it is have no bearing on each other. Sorry. Formulate arguments not complaints.
Azarael wrote: It's only a nerf if you're bad.

(see, I can shitpost too!)
Secrets wrote: Kindly adjust your attitude to actually help the community and do not impose your will on it. You aren't as powerful as you think.

Hysteri4
Posts: 15

Re: Communication

Post#6 » Sun May 22, 2022 12:25 pm

Dabbart wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 4:18 pm Why? Is your agreement or disagreement relevant?
Yes. Because every time we get the juicy combination of a controversial change and lackluster communication, people leave. And no one benefits from this. Good communication of your intentions (assuming they make sense) can improve the acceptance of controversial changes a lot. I believe that the recent **** storm could've been avoided almost completely with better patch notes and more communication on why exactly these changes were necessary and why they make the game better.
Dabbart wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 4:18 pm Is their reasoning relevant to your agreement of the outcome? Will a solid statement alter your perception of a change?
Yes and Yes. I believe that trust in the developer is a huge factor for retaining and increasing you player base in MMOs.
When a developer implements a very controversial change, there are 3 ways in doing so:
  1. The Devs explain their reasoning and it makes a lot of sense: In that case, even if the changes are disliked, most players will understand that it's for the better of the game and that the Devs know what they are doing. Or at the very least the Devs had only the best intentions with the change. Sometimes even a perfect theory will fail in practice. The players will understand this.
  • The Devs explain their reasoning and the argumentation is bad: The players will start to question whether the game is in good hands. Hopefully the players can get the Devs to revert the changes. Otherwise people will start leaving.
  • (We are here.)The Devs put out a one sentence patch note for a enormous change with zero indication of what exactly changed and why it was changed: The players now have to do detective work in the forum and ingame chat to find out what the patch even did. Also we get a shitstorm with plenty of personal accusations because no one knows WHY the hell the change was even necessary. Some people provide good faith interpretations of the Devs actions and a lot of people do the opposite. Accusations of bias, incompetence and bad management get thrown around. Parts of the player base stop logging in because they don't want the drama or because they feel like their (possibly) most time consuming hobby is not in good hands.
I believe that the Devs giving bad arguments for a change is better than giving none at all. Simply because bad arguments allow for a unified opposition to the changes. A lack of argumentation leads to fights within the community between the players who think that the Devs are doing gods work and the players who think the Devs are evil and incompentent...and also the players stuck in the middle who just want the fighting to stop.

I want this game to flourish. And good communication between players and Devs is probably the best and cheapest ways to ensure that it does.

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GamesBond
Former Staff
Posts: 1072
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Re: Communication

Post#7 » Sun May 22, 2022 12:32 pm

Hysteri4 wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 12:25 pm
Dabbart wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 4:18 pm Why? Is your agreement or disagreement relevant?
Yes. Because every time we get the juicy combination of a controversial change and lackluster communication, people leave. And no one benefits from this. Good communication of your intentions (assuming they make sense) can improve the acceptance of controversial changes a lot. I believe that the recent **** storm could've been avoided almost completely with better patch notes and more communication on why exactly these changes were necessary and why they make the game better.
Dabbart wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 4:18 pm Is their reasoning relevant to your agreement of the outcome? Will a solid statement alter your perception of a change?
Yes and Yes. I believe that trust in the developer is a huge factor for retaining and increasing you player base in MMOs.
When a developer implements a very controversial change, there are 3 ways in doing so:
  1. The Devs explain their reasoning and it makes a lot of sense: In that case, even if the changes are disliked, most players will understand that it's for the better of the game and that the Devs know what they are doing. Or at the very least the Devs had only the best intentions with the change. Sometimes even a perfect theory will fail in practice. The players will understand this.
  • The Devs explain their reasoning and the argumentation is bad: The players will start to question whether the game is in good hands. Hopefully the players can get the Devs to revert the changes. Otherwise people will start leaving.
  • (We are here.)The Devs put out a one sentence patch note for a enormous change with zero indication of what exactly changed and why it was changed: The players now have to do detective work in the forum and ingame chat to find out what the patch even did. Also we get a shitstorm with plenty of personal accusations because no one knows WHY the hell the change was even necessary. Some people provide good faith interpretations of the Devs actions and a lot of people do the opposite. Accusations of bias, incompetence and bad management get thrown around. Parts of the player base stop logging in because they don't want the drama or because they feel like their (possibly) most time consuming hobby is not in good hands.
I believe that the Devs giving bad arguments for a change is better than giving none at all. Simply because bad arguments allow for a unified opposition to the changes. A lack of argumentation leads to fights within the community between the players who think that the Devs are doing gods work and the players who think the Devs are evil and incompentent...and also the players stuck in the middle who just want the fighting to stop.

I want this game to flourish. And good communication between players and Devs is probably the best and cheapest ways to ensure that it does.

You're absolutely correct and on point with everything you've said from A to Z. There was definitely lack of seriousness in how the recent patch was communicated and we're dealing with it internally. Rest assured that we've transparently voiced all the concerns and linked them to the one and only cause: Miscommunication. The lack of communication wasn't purposely done, but was heavily criticized internally as we've pledged before to remain transparent with the community and this patch discredited this pledge. We shall share an update soon regarding the whole change, it's late but the mistake already occurred and we could only improve from here onwards.

Dabbart
Posts: 2248

Re: Communication

Post#8 » Sun May 22, 2022 4:25 pm

Hysteri4 wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 12:25 pm
Dabbart wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 4:18 pm Why? Is your agreement or disagreement relevant?
Yes. Because every time we get the juicy combination of a controversial change and lackluster communication, people leave. And no one benefits from this. Good communication of your intentions (assuming they make sense) can improve the acceptance of controversial changes a lot. I believe that the recent **** storm could've been avoided almost completely with better patch notes and more communication on why exactly these changes were necessary and why they make the game better.

How does that make your agreement/disagreement relevant? More information wont make you agree with the change. People will still leave or not. The same **** storms will occur. You either like the change, don't like the change, don't care, or are willing to test/try it out. That's pretty much it.

Hysteri4 wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 12:25 pm
Dabbart wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 4:18 pm Is their reasoning relevant to your agreement of the outcome? Will a solid statement alter your perception of a change?
Yes and Yes. I believe that trust in the developer is a huge factor for retaining and increasing you player base in MMOs.
When a developer implements a very controversial change, there are 3 ways in doing so:
  1. The Devs explain their reasoning and it makes a lot of sense: In that case, even if the changes are disliked, most players will understand that it's for the better of the game and that the Devs know what they are doing. Or at the very least the Devs had only the best intentions with the change. Sometimes even a perfect theory will fail in practice. The players will understand this.

Wut? You honestly saying that people will respect the Dev's opinion and that they have the best interest in the game at heart? Are you new to the internet? No. That isn't what happens. Not anywhere in any walk of life will even the majority, of the people who post, simply respectfully disagree.

Hysteri4 wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 12:25 pm
  • The Devs explain their reasoning and the argumentation is bad: The players will start to question whether the game is in good hands. Hopefully the players can get the Devs to revert the changes. Otherwise people will start leaving.
Again, who decides if the arguement is good or bad? The same people that decide to agree or disagree with the change in the first place. Back to my question, would you honestly be swayed by a good arguement? The answer is almost assuredly NO.

Hysteri4 wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 12:25 pm
  • (We are here.)The Devs put out a one sentence patch note for a enormous change with zero indication of what exactly changed and why it was changed: The players now have to do detective work in the forum and ingame chat to find out what the patch even did. Also we get a shitstorm with plenty of personal accusations because no one knows WHY the hell the change was even necessary. Some people provide good faith interpretations of the Devs actions and a lot of people do the opposite. Accusations of bias, incompetence and bad management get thrown around. Parts of the player base stop logging in because they don't want the drama or because they feel like their (possibly) most time consuming hobby is not in good hands.

Again, you act like this is something NEW. The Devs HAVE previously gone into massive explanations of their changes. Didn't help. There is a reason patch notes don't contain which person performed which changes anymore. Why? Cause then that person would get BOMBARDED. There is a reason that the patchnotes are released under a RoR account. Because the person that released the patch notes used to get BOMBARDED.

They are in a no win position. Oh, and there's only a handful of them. Oh, and they don't know any of us. Oh, and they don't owe any of us a damned thing. Imo, this team is far more professional then they ever needed to be.

Hysteri4 wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 12:25 pm I believe that the Devs giving bad arguments for a change is better than giving none at all. Simply because bad arguments allow for a unified opposition to the changes. A lack of argumentation leads to fights within the community between the players who think that the Devs are doing gods work and the players who think the Devs are evil and incompentent...and also the players stuck in the middle who just want the fighting to stop.

I want this game to flourish. And good communication between players and Devs is probably the best and cheapest ways to ensure that it does.

Good for you. I disagree. And you even saying Cheapest on a free server with volunteer staff is silly. They do what they want.

I stand by my original post. If you dislike a change, argue for why it should be altered. The onus of argument lies with us. We have to convince them, not the other way around. You managed to put forth a halfway decent argument for why they should put forward more opinions. Awesome. Now go do one for the changes you don't like.

Gamesbond and others can play the "We totally care" customer support. But sadly, the opinion of the players has always been secondary(EDIT: I don't think that's bad either, most of the players are assholes with no concept of balance or game design, myself included). Am I the only person who remembers the original DoK/WP changes? Remember the reason we have a RoR Career Builder and not the original one and the shitstorm that was? All the discussion in the world didn't stop that.

Meh. I just don't get the "give me MORE of your time to explain **** I already disagree with!". Make your arguments or points. If they choose to respond awesome, if not, not. The onus of argument is on you, the player/tester.
Azarael wrote: It's only a nerf if you're bad.

(see, I can shitpost too!)
Secrets wrote: Kindly adjust your attitude to actually help the community and do not impose your will on it. You aren't as powerful as you think.

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