[Suggestion] Replace AAO and WTA Buff/Bane

[Cyrylius]

Stat boosts are a mediocre idea, for reasons stated above: it will make people who are already doing great stronger (specifically, solo roamers and gank groups which are already doing very well in AAO heavy zones), it makes others weaker (and what I mean is players trying to avoid zerging will be rewarded by losing to enemy small-scale groups due to stat modifications) and players who you are trying to help would still in general fare pretty badly (stat boosts are not enough to just win against vastly superior numbers, especially in low pop zones). And that on top of the boosters affecting DPS much more than tanks, as healing scales very bad with willpower as opposed to damage scaling very well with mainstat. I'm aware of the problem you are trying to address, I just don't think your solution will work. Also I'm seeing it slightly favour playing kite classes, which i personally don't really like - it is however a personal preference of mine and nothing more.

[Omegus]

Bias/disclaimer: these days I almost always play in organised guild warbands.

OP: have you thought about the fact that if the overpopulated side is put at a disadvantage in equal fights, then it just encourages them to blob harder to make up the stat deficit?

Stat buffs and debuffs completely distort how a soloer, a group, a warband, or even a zerg have to fight to win. Roaming as a 6 man but your side happens to be overpopulated? Well now you need another 1-2 players to equal out the damage and healing, and as a bonus you also get all the extra utility that comes with it as the game is more than damage and healing. Most of the zerging ends up occuring due to poorly designed maps and PVP objectives which either force players into each other at a few horrible choke-points, or don't encourage you to split up to achieve multiple things.

Do you happen to be in a strong warband that can play both sides? If you happen to be on the underpopulated side and the population still hasn't worked itself out then your very strong warband has even more success fighting other warbands and farming PUGs. Stat changes just skew the actual PVP interactions we do get. I don't deserve to win or lose an equal fight because somewhere else on the map are a bunch of other players doing something else and the numbers don't add up.

Also, something similar has been tried in Land of the Dead but more localised (based on the number of allies near you) to force people to spread out, and people still zerg there if needed to win fights.

[wachlarz]

U wanna make 24 ppl vs 72 ppl balanced ? 1 dps vs 3 dps ? one healer vs 3 healers ?. 21 lvl choppa vs 3. 40 lvl 80rr slayers ? Awsome balance.

[illutian]

Also, something similar has been tried in Land of the Dead but more localised (based on the number of allies near you) to force people to spread out, and people still zerg there if needed to win fights.

Then the imbalance is going to get worse.

[joroth]

Feel like Lotd and how one-sided it is shows this isn't the answer. this system isn't that much better than our current one. Wartorn apathy encourages people to just log out if they don't want to xrealm. as mostly a destro player if i see order has 80% aao i just go play something else for a while. Don't think as an mmo you ever want your players to feel encouraged to log out.

Not sure you want to buff stats either tbh, regen builds are already rampaging around last thing I want to do is give these builds capped stats. ;]

Think the overall best solution is how do you break apart blobbing? you can play the underdog and have fun its when 2-3 zerg wb's decide to start blobbing it becomes less fun. Personally as someone who finds 24 man warbands boring content. I'd love to see lower Warband caps like 12 man warbands ect. Think it makes for interesting gameplay. The most fun ive had in this game are 12v12 fights. Will the zerg warband leaders still have multiple warbands in discord zerging people down? yes. but it would encourage me to actually engage with random warbands, but i also prefer 12v12 city to 24 v 24.


Just my 2 cents from my filter/pov Love you guys! <3

[illutian]

Feel like Lotd and how one-sided it is shows this isn't the answer. this system isn't that much better than our current one. Wartorn apathy encourages people to just log out if they don't want to xrealm. as mostly a destro player if i see order has 80% aao i just go play something else for a while. Don't think as an mmo you ever want your players to feel encouraged to log out.

Not sure you want to buff stats either tbh, regen builds are already rampaging around last thing I want to do is give these builds capped stats. ;]

Think the overall best solution is how do you break apart blobbing? you can play the underdog and have fun its when 2-3 zerg wb's decide to start blobbing it becomes less fun. Personally as someone who finds 24 man warbands boring content. I'd love to see lower Warband caps like 12 man warbands ect. Think it makes for interesting gameplay. The most fun ive had in this game are 12v12 fights. Will the zerg warband leaders still have multiple warbands in discord zerging people down? yes. but it would encourage me to actually engage with random warbands, but i also prefer 12v12 city to 24 v 24.


Just my 2 cents from my filter/pov Love you guys! <3

I don't get this obsession with AAO/WTA being the Great Equalizer. It's not.

Black Crag; 25-99 Order vs 100-199 Destro (according to RoR's SoR). They easily took the keep.

AAO/WTA does not work.

Character XP? Pointless at 40.
Influence? I'm betting 9 out of 10 players in the RVR are Elite status on the Influence for there.
Item Drop Chance? So you can vendor the greens, for gold you don't need?
Renown? Scenarios are way faster. Made more Renown in the weekly than in the entire weekend of wading into the RVR Lake.

AAO/WTA only realistically work with the sub-40s. If the community is dead-set on using a PVE solution to solve a PVP problem. Then level 40s need a different version of AAO/WTA.

[Omegus]

Also, something similar has been tried in Land of the Dead but more localised (based on the number of allies near you) to force people to spread out, and people still zerg there if needed to win fights.

Then the imbalance is going to get worse.

The back and forth has been the same for years, and was at its worst when zerging for cities was a thing. It's actually better now (at least in EU evenings) than it used to be.

[mynban]

illutian your mistake is in the assumption that RoR playerbase wants fair equal fights. Given the option to; either have a fair equal fight, or stomp a hopeless opponent, overwhelming majority of players will always choose the option to stomp a helpless opponent.

You will see many people saying otherwise, but once you look at actions it becomes very clear.

- people join the side that is PvDooring in lakes instead of trying to defend
- full sov rr80+ 24man WBs do not immediately queue for city, and wait for sign up so that they can avoid facing the other highly geared organized WB; and instead fight pugs. It is called queue dodging and that is the default behavior of city WBs.
- premades going vs pugs in scenarios. Premades stop queueing when they face a stronger premade
- premades going vs pugs in pug-sc of the week
- 24man WBs avoiding other 24man WBs in lakes (the same thing that happens in Alterac in WoW). And waiting for more WBs to come to their aid to outnumber before attacking another WB.
- 6man roaming parties only attacking solo/duo strays
- ranked players checking who is online, and queueing based on who is on the other side for rank-sniping vs weak groups

And here you are trying to promote a system that will diminish power of advantageous playstyle. Noone will like your idea since it goes against the core of what people want. Seal clubbers dont want the seals to have machine guns.

[Cyrylius]

As much as it's not gonna happen id love it if every revolutionary idea like this one got, say, one weekend of being actually implemented, so that next time it appears in almost identical form old players can say "we tried it, it didn't work". I'm aware that devs have more interesting things to do. I'm aware that people would still say it's a good idea, like with those ever returning threads about scenario matchmaking matching prioritising 2/2/2 comps.
But let me have my dreams.

[Detangler]

illutian your mistake is in the assumption that RoR playerbase wants fair equal fights. Given the option to; either have a fair equal fight, or stomp a hopeless opponent, overwhelming majority of players will always choose the option to stomp a helpless opponent.

You will see many people saying otherwise, but once you look at actions it becomes very clear.

- people join the side that is PvDooring in lakes instead of trying to defend
- full sov rr80+ 24man WBs do not immediately queue for city, and wait for sign up so that they can avoid facing the other highly geared organized WB; and instead fight pugs. It is called queue dodging and that is the default behavior of city WBs.
- premades going vs pugs in scenarios. Premades stop queueing when they face a stronger premade
- premades going vs pugs in pug-sc of the week
- 24man WBs avoiding other 24man WBs in lakes (the same thing that happens in Alterac in WoW). And waiting for more WBs to come to their aid to outnumber before attacking another WB.
- 6man roaming parties only attacking solo/duo strays
- ranked players checking who is online, and queueing based on who is on the other side for rank-sniping vs weak groups

And here you are trying to promote a system that will diminish power of advantageous playstyle. Noone will like your idea since it goes against the core of what people want. Seal clubbers dont want the seals to have machine guns.

I really wish these forums had thumbs up/down of posts, because good God you nailed it here.

Also LotD has a defeatist problem on order side. Ppl expect to lose so they barely try. Pug leaders don't lead, and the vast swaths of rdps that order brings all run as soon as the enemy gets close, leading to easy routes of the zerg. If order players played more tanks and slayers/WL and there was a push for a lot of leadership to swap sides, you would see the ending be quite different in that zone. Good luck with that, tho. BW can pew pew!!