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LOTD balance anyone?

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Structured class balance suggestions belong in the Balance Proposal subforum. Class-related discussion in this section are considered as ongoing debates and ARE NOT reviewed for balance changes.
JohnnyWayne
Posts: 176

Re: LOTD balance anyone?

Post#21 » Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:52 pm

To set thie straight: From my point of view you are arguing against a system that would improve LotD for both sides (as the pop advantage could swing back in favor of order at any time). You are focused on the current state and on destro perspective, instead of what is good for the game and in the long run.

I don't want a pop cap, I want pop balance. If someone leaves lotd, they should get a 2 hour quitter debuff and a halt to all renown and crest gain. It has to hurt.

Order is not showing up, because the non-casual order players seem to have a different mentality than destro. They avoid blobbing and rather run into their demise outnumbered. (From my experience destro starts to blob up and order is forced to follow that.) They can't do **** in LotD, so they boycott it. I wonder why they tend to not play cities though, should be right down their alley.

In regards of rewards, I'm not sure about the gear (could mess up balance in general, gear gap is already HUGE) but I agree that the end of "match" rewards should be greatly increased to incentivice people joining.

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Wam
Posts: 803

Re: LOTD balance anyone?

Post#22 » Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:01 pm

JohnnyWayne wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:52 pm To set thie straight: From my point of view you are arguing against a system that would improve LotD for both sides (as the pop advantage could swing back in favor of order at any time). You are focused on the current state and on destro perspective, instead of what is good for the game and in the long run.

I don't want a pop cap, I want pop balance. If someone leaves lotd, they should get a 2 hour quitter debuff and a halt to all renown and crest gain. It has to hurt.

Order is not showing up, because the non-casual order players seem to have a different mentality than destro. They avoid blobbing and rather run into their demise outnumbered. (From my experience destro starts to blob up and order is forced to follow that.) They can't do **** in LotD, so they boycott it. I wonder why they tend to not play cities though, should be right down their alley.

In regards of rewards, I'm not sure about the gear (could mess up balance in general, gear gap is already HUGE) but I agree that the end of "match" rewards should be greatly increased to incentivice people joining.
from my experience in lotd i dont really remember destro leaders stacking huge numbers in same discord and losing

I am not argueing in favour of pop imbalance far from it, I just find it a bit rich that the guy complaining about being outnumbered and "balance" is the same guy wasting time and resources with 72 people chasing 12 off point then complain about losing? you don't need to be a brain surgeon to know where you are going wrong hahaha... so 60 destro players can cap uncontested and push enemy spawn :lol: and this was the first engage LMAO

What have order done different each and every lotd to improve their chances besides whine?
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normanis
Posts: 1304
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Re: LOTD balance anyone?

Post#23 » Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:22 pm

Wam wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:01 pm
JohnnyWayne wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:52 pm To set thie straight: From my point of view you are arguing against a system that would improve LotD for both sides (as the pop advantage could swing back in favor of order at any time). You are focused on the current state and on destro perspective, instead of what is good for the game and in the long run.

I don't want a pop cap, I want pop balance. If someone leaves lotd, they should get a 2 hour quitter debuff and a halt to all renown and crest gain. It has to hurt.

Order is not showing up, because the non-casual order players seem to have a different mentality than destro. They avoid blobbing and rather run into their demise outnumbered. (From my experience destro starts to blob up and order is forced to follow that.) They can't do **** in LotD, so they boycott it. I wonder why they tend to not play cities though, should be right down their alley.

In regards of rewards, I'm not sure about the gear (could mess up balance in general, gear gap is already HUGE) but I agree that the end of "match" rewards should be greatly increased to incentivice people joining.
from my experience in lotd i dont really remember destro leaders stacking huge numbers in same discord and losing

I am not argueing in favour of pop imbalance far from it, I just find it a bit rich that the guy complaining about being outnumbered and "balance" is the same guy wasting time and resources with 72 people chasing 12 off point then complain about losing? you don't need to be a brain surgeon to know where you are going wrong hahaha... so 60 destro players can cap uncontested and push enemy spawn :lol: and this was the first engage LMAO

What have order done different each and every lotd to improve their chances besides whine?
still cant survive 1 death. would be top killer byt 1 death
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Strakar
Posts: 144

Re: LOTD balance anyone?

Post#24 » Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:29 pm

Also, they need to increase point gains so the zone completes quicker, then you can apply a quitter debuff. Particularly once a side gets ahead by a certain amount, like fort def.
The outcome is pretty clear in the first 30 minutes which side has numbers or is better organized, but not everyone has 2 hours to be locked into a futile exercise, win or lose.

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Detangler
Posts: 986

Re: LOTD balance anyone?

Post#25 » Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:37 pm

Good WB leaders make or break oRvR. You see the effects in late night NA more than anything. The second the WB leader goes to bed and no one else steps up, that side's orvr evaporates.
Pugs follow leaders much more effectively if leaders communicate regularly. There's even a handy add-on that makes many WB messages available at the click of a button. I don't know if its previous losses + lack of effective WB leaders stepping up, poor tacticians (like 3 WB chasing a 12 man while ignoring objectives), or a combination of all 3.

I've only done LotD a handful of times, of that I've lead small pug WBs on occasion as well. It can be quite fun to run around away from the zerg either back capping or preventing back cappers. There is no need to form large groups to be effective on the map, you just have to expand what you think is possible and try using more strategy. There are a lot of sub-WB small scale fights to be had.

Are the forum warriors here trying to coax fellow order players into joining LotD fights? Are you splitting off from your guild-only groups to try to lead more puggies into battle and maybe allowing better communication between larger number of players?
Detangler and alts - 84 Chosen, other 40s - DoK, Zealot, SH, WE, BG, BO
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Tangler and alts - 8X IB, other 40s - RP, SM
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JohnnyWayne
Posts: 176

Re: LOTD balance anyone?

Post#26 » Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:12 pm

Wam wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:01 pm from my experience in lotd i dont really remember destro leaders stacking huge numbers in same discord and losing

I am not argueing in favour of pop imbalance far from it, I just find it a bit rich that the guy complaining about being outnumbered and "balance" is the same guy wasting time and resources with 72 people chasing 12 off point then complain about losing? you don't need to be a brain surgeon to know where you are going wrong hahaha... so 60 destro players can cap uncontested and push enemy spawn :lol: and this was the first engage LMAO

What have order done different each and every lotd to improve their chances besides whine?
I can agree with that. I wonder if things would be much different with balanced player counts. But at least people on both sides would have less excuses that way.
You also have to keep in mind, he was chasing these 12 people that were hiding behind 200 others that were blobbing. So maybe that was the only fight where they saw a chance to win at all. I'm really interested in how lotd would play out if there were a forced balance between sides.

Btw, all the other LotD where order won, the "less casual guilds" were in there. They just stopped caring it seems like.

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Hugatsaga
Posts: 176

Re: LOTD balance anyone?

Post#27 » Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:51 pm

Bene theilax member whining about numbers is best joke I've seen in these forums.
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Ninjagon
Posts: 474

Re: LOTD balance anyone?

Post#28 » Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:52 pm

This is just hilarious.

I see your arguments, i mean destruction arguments, because every single person here already heard that before many times.

Lets look at it: "we played order with 12 and we had most of the kills", "learn to play", off course, off course, it is never an population issue, we are just very good and you are lame...

Still the same song.

But have you forgot previous LOTDs? When order wins by far with kills vs destruction? When we burned destruction WBs over and over, and the conclusion was, that order LOST LOTD, because many defeated destro players just wen to PvE cap battle objectives? And it was successful because of what? (A little hint, significant population disproportion maybe??)

Where are your arguments now? Where is your "learn to play"? Destruction WBs were smashed to the ground over and over again! I was there and you too. So what you can say?
Teach us mister Wam and Haojin, because you are so better, huh?

Why you do not want equal conditions? Are you afraid?
Ninjab - The White Lion. No Destruction character. RETRIBUTION guild.
Also: Velmires - WP, Carnow - KotbS, Ninjagon - BW, Nynja - SW, Stin - WH, and others.
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Evilspinnre
Posts: 366

Re: LOTD balance anyone?

Post#29 » Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:03 pm

Ninjagon wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:52 pm This is just hilarious.

I see your arguments, i mean destruction arguments, because every single person here already heard that before many times.

Lets look at it: "we played order with 12 and we had most of the kills", "learn to play", off course, off course, it is never an population issue, we are just very good and you are lame...

Still the same song.

But have you forgot previous LOTDs? When order wins by far with kills vs destruction? When we burned destruction WBs over and over, and the conclusion was, that order LOST LOTD, because many defeated destro players just wen to PvE cap battle objectives? And it was successful because of what? (A little hint, significant population disproportion maybe??)

Where are your arguments now? Where is your "learn to play"? Destruction WBs were smashed to the ground over and over again! I was there and you too. So what you can say?
Teach us mister Wam and Haojin, because you are so better, huh?

Why you do not want equal conditions? Are you afraid?

Please link 1 LOTD where Bene was top kills. Order won two of the tests when I had a stacked warband on order that carried kills across the zone.

What does Xrealming have to do with anything? Expedition resources aren't multi realm, you have to play on that side to get in. Maybe order guilds are getting sick of trying to organise because they get no real support from your guild, which folds in an even numbered fight?

Fair fight? Like 12v12? I'm sure Hao, Wam, or myself would be happy to fight you even numbers, message us to organise ;)
Evilspinnre - Nightmare/Daydream - Xrealmers Anonymous
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Ninjagon
Posts: 474

Re: LOTD balance anyone?

Post#30 » Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:07 pm

Wam wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:01 pm from my experience in lotd i dont really remember destro leaders stacking huge numbers in same discord and losing

I am not argueing in favour of pop imbalance far from it, I just find it a bit rich that the guy complaining about being outnumbered and "balance" is the same guy wasting time and resources with 72 people chasing 12 off point then complain about losing? you don't need to be a brain surgeon to know where you are going wrong hahaha... so 60 destro players can cap uncontested and push enemy spawn :lol: and this was the first engage LMAO

What have order done different each and every lotd to improve their chances besides whine?
Wam,
- fist, it was not 72 people, that is a Haojin`s lie.
- second, it was not my call, I was not a leader an I know, that this is a strategic mistake, especially at the beginning stage of LOTD. I can admit that.
- do not use this as an argument to the topic, because it is not valid.
Oder didn't lost because of this. The issue is elsewhere, you know it, and I know it too, so don't play those funny games here.
Ninjab - The White Lion. No Destruction character. RETRIBUTION guild.
Also: Velmires - WP, Carnow - KotbS, Ninjagon - BW, Nynja - SW, Stin - WH, and others.
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