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2022 oRVR overhaul suggestion

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wonshot
Posts: 1033

2022 oRVR overhaul suggestion

Post#1 » Thu Dec 01, 2022 1:19 pm

Hello,
Brief introduction and goal
In 2020 I made one of these. It was a different game, some issues are the same, some have been resolved, and some are no longer an issue as direct responds to patches or playerbehavior.
The 2020 suggestion post and community feedback responses: viewtopic.php?t=42614

Some of the core issues with the game back then, I suggested to be attempted tackled with the introduction of "Weekly pips for oRvR inf" especially to make T2-T3 orvr zones more appealing.
Link to the suggestion and pretty much the system we have today with weekly orvr inf: viewtopic.php?p=510569&hilit=orvr+inf#p510569
And to make oRVR more of a replayability loop, aimed at a simple system allowing for any gear-level to progress along side players with any groupsize & any gameplay focus
- Green gear or full bis
- solo roaming or full realm-zerging
- casual or full sweatlord.

Some of these suggestions will be overlapping ideas from my suggestion back then. I will list it in a long post trying to cover as much of the full suggestion here to leave no gaps, with that said this is meant as just a suggestion to spark ideas and conversation to improve orvr and ror, i by no means expect this to be a perfect plug-n-play idea. But hopefully it will lead to conversations openly or internally to improve on RoR year after year.
Suggestion
1) Guild-ranks and keepclaiming + upgrades
2) Keeptakes and objectives
3) Campaign maps T2
4) Campaign maps T3-T4
5) Fortresses
6) Campaign score & City
7) Rallyingcry, roaming and warreport
8) LOTD phase1
9) LOTD phase2

1) Guild-ranks and keepclaming + upgrading keeps
Guild levels unlocking battlestandard tactics, keepclaim upgrades needs to be brought back to a point of mattering.
Guild claming a keep should work as a partly proudful point of being a representative force of your realm in the efforts of the campaign. While being a bonus to your realm for claiming and holding a keep, you put your guild on the map for friends and foes to see your pressence. Either for them to think twice about if they should attack your keep and if you are known for showing up and defending your land, or if you have a bad reputation of being a push-over. Guildnames and reputation needs to matter in the campaign.

Upgrading a keep will drain guildfunds(gold sink in a game that needs more!) for the higher the keep is being upgraded. A way to these upgrades will be the guildrank+keepstar whenclaiming it. Max level of guilds being raised to level 100. Each 10 levels will improve the keep-upgrades available. While also requireing the keepstars of an actively held keep to be pushed to unlock more of your upgrade potential.

Example:
1star keep allows for doorhealth upgrade only
2star keep allows for NPC guards to be upgraded from normal mobs to Champions
3star keep allows for NPC guards to be upgraded to Hero guards
4star keep allows for Oil to damage the ram
5star keep allows for the a cauldron mechanic to spawn at lords room

Guildrank upgrades allowed:
guildrank10 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 10% more
guildrank20 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 20% more
guildrank30 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 30% more
guildrank40 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 40% more, and NPCs will report ammount of enemy attackers nearby when they are killed in guildchat
(A Hero guard of your guild's keep has been killed with 33 enemies nearby)
guildrank50 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 50% more, and purchaseable upgrade to allow defenders dead inside outerwall to respawn inside inner keep.
guildrank60 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 60% more
guildrank70 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 70% more, and the claimed guild can freely fly into the keep from WC
guildrank80 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 80% more
guildrank90 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 90% more, and the alliance of the claimed keep can see ammount of enemy attackers nearby when the guards are killed
guildrank100 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 100% more, will provide all buffs from the guilds 3 battlestandards to all allies within range of the claimed keep

Captureing an enemy claimed keep and claiming it for yourself, will add their ruined banner trophy to your own guild-window trophy-collection to decorate the innerkeep with torn enemy guildbanners automatically hanging on the walls bottom floor all soiled and put to shame.
Claiming a keep will be done by an officer holding a guildstandard 3rd floor and claiming the keep by giving held standard to the upgrade-npc at the cost of the Banner. Only one guild can claim a keep at a time. A guild can only control one keep at a time to pick wicely which keep to hold and control.

2)Keeptakes and objectives
Right now with our current RvR zonelock systems zones go in a systematic order from T2 -> T3 -> T4 and then back and forth till a fortress has been captured and the pairing locked.
I am proposing a fully open ALL zones RvR campaign. So T2 Empire, Dwarf, Elf are all open in T2, T3, T4 all zones. While the fortresses are all open too in best DAoC style (relic)
So while all zones are open for attack, at any point what determines what zone to go for and why push keep ranks(?)
As mentioned above the keepranks will make the keeps take longer to take, this will stall the assault and give the defenders time to travel and respond to a siege. But numbers and strategy should also matter, so I am proposing the following:
- All ranged attacks can damage oil if they are in range (100ft) No more lack of logic where a throwing axe can hit inner oil, but a gunshot can not damage outer oil. :roll:
- Unmanned oil free to use will be spawned automatically every 2.5 - 3.5 minut on a random timer. No more oil warning eggwatch alerts. Oil will already be spawned when the siege begins and then taken out.
- Ram damage will scale with ammount of BOs controled during siege. 25% 50% 75% 100% normal damage depending on BOs.
- Door can only take damage from the ram with 25/100% dmg if the defending realm holds 4 BOs. And not from players unless atleast one BO is under control.
- Attacking realm can damage the door with abilities in 5ft range of the gate! Makes oil even more dangerous!
The ammount of people you bring to a storming of a castle should matter in the tempo of the siege. You can try to rush the door down by stacking but at the risk of oil masskill, or spend some forces trying to block incoming defenders arriving at the postern. Numbers should matter. While the BOs dont currently matter during a keepsiege, this suggestion will provide some smaller reason for action to still happening away of the keep during a keepsiege. IF the defenders hold all 4 BOs the gate can only be hit by the ram and not abilities, to force the zerg to split out on the map or take the keep really slow.

If one realm holds population momentum in EU prime, or NA primetime and the other realm is really outnumbered they can try and stall and force the outnumbering side to spread their numbers out.
"Will this not just lead to avoiding eachother and pvdoor?"
Potentially yes admittedly. But as I personally see it right now, whats the honest difference apart from players stacking on one realm, we have 4 tanks playing a minigame on the ram and everyone else are sitting mounted waiting for a 3min. oil respawn being guarddogs for the rammers. Atleast this will be more active and with player choice and rekindled guild/realm focus in a dynamic open campaign.

Zonelocks as we know them will not exist. Instead succesful keepcaptures or defences will be the bagroll moment.

3)Campaign maps T2
These maps only have one set of doors to breach, making them easier to rush and less reaction time. This will be a natural easier battlefield for lower population timezones (Asia, NA) and in case of all keep being held and upgraded with no flipping, these keeps will serve as a weaker point of attack in a succesful hold for long periodes of time to keep action flowing and bags/rewards still happening.

4) Campaign maps T3-T4
These are the outer + inner double door sieges.
Claiming, holding and upgrading these will prove to be rough strongholds hard to rush and besieging. Will require coordination and communication to keep defenders out or pinned inside a keep, while other attacks might happend on other keeps in other zones. The only way to tell where what keep will be next under attack will be by scouting from players in which zones warbands are spotted. And any big force caught attacking a keep all stacked on the door can be punished with oil or an ambush attack making sieges more engaging than 1dimensional system we have atm.

5) Fortresses
Tired of reservations, suddenly full defence team logging in to defend fort which were never seen in the last previous zone, or too much Nascar running in circles(?)
With the zones all being open to attacks at any moment, so will the fortresses be open. But they will work as big super keeps.
In a fortress zone will there be:
- 6 Battleobjectives
- Each Battleobjective will have a Fortress-guard (same difficulty as a keep-lord) protecting his Battleobjective and associated miniguards to protect him depending on his associated RvR-keep
Example: Destro have control over both keeps in KV, and in TM. But order have control over 1 keep in BC. That means there will be a keeplord on 5/6 of the BOs in Butcher's Pass.
Example: The keeplord in KV is rank4 claimed and have Hero guards, these are the same in the BO in Butcher's pass on the KV-fortress BO.
- For each alive Fortress-guard on a flag in a fortress zone the fortress lord himself will have 16% increased damage and damage reduction.
- The fortress doors will be open when 5/10 keeps minimum from T2-T3-T4 in a pairing have been captured. The Victory point bar will show how many keeps are blue/red total in all zones.
- Succesfully killing a Fortress-guard on a BO inside a fortress will put him on a 30min respawn timer showing on a map when the BO is captured.
- Should a keep fall while a fortress is attacked, the assosiated Fortress-guard from the keepzone will respawn back to defend(and buff fortress lord) in case of a defenders cap. or die if attackers.
- A succesful fortress attack will lock that fortress from being attacked for 3hours
- Succesful Fort attack will be based on killing the assosiated Fortress guards, players, and the Fortress lord.
- Succesful Fort defence will be given to players in the fortress zone based on their pvp kill contribution in their group/warband (forts are not solo content) The bags are given out when Fortress NPCs are back to full health from respawning or having been pulled and then resetting, the contribution for defending scales with the more pvp kills from defending. So cant farm bags from just letting an npc resetting without any killing in the zone. And cant stand afk doing nothing and get bags, need to actively contribute to build contribution.
- Defenders contribution scales with AAO for off-hour population imballance to reward the underdogs to try and attend.

6) Campaign score & City
A point system is then implimented depending on keepcontrol, BO control, Fortress control
- Each BO under Destro/Order control will count for 5points on the campaign status bar
- Each Keep under Destro/Order control will count for 50points on the campaign status bar
- Each Fortress under Destro/Order control will count for 250 points on the campaign status bar
- Winning LOTD will count as 100 points as tecnically the two warcamps are under control
When a scheduled city is fireing off, the realm with the most point as city queue starts will attack the other realm's Capital
This should make it so players who are about to have a city in a couple of hours can maybe shape their own fortune and not rely on other timeszones or previous days results. While previous days results still matter in terms of long held keeps will be more upgraded and tougher to take.

7)Rallyingcry, roaming and warreport
With the fear of this would become too much PvE, PvDoor and avoiding fighting the King of IC will send out a Rallying cry to a random zone every 1hour. Karl Franz will match and do the same for the same zone, both kings providing a buff while inside the zone boosting Renown gain, Crest gain, Expedition resource gain.
Warreport as a whole will be taken out of the game as it doesnt serve its original purpose and instead have been used to avoid pvp most of the time. Rallying cry will have the original teleport option to teleport to the selected zone by the kings.
Hopefully this system should make a "go-to" zone to find action with all zones open. But anyone could go whereever they please to buildup a zone, stop a build-up, or to split out the action to push the campaign.

8) LOTD phase1
LOTD stays as the game mode it is currently.
Upscaled Thunder Valley map with focus on Realm coordination. Expedition resources to get inside earned from kills in orvr.
Winning LOTD will count for 100 points towards the campaign status bar.

9) LOTD phase2
Mini tombs, Tovl, Collosus etc.
During the week when there is no active fight in LOTD the minitombs are open for the 4 encounters.
Collosus can be summoned by any realm whenever 5000 Resources are turned in, outside of the window of a planned LOTD phase1 fight. Players who cant make it for weekend LOTD phase1 can still save and attend for a collosus encounter during the week with their mates and guilds. In turn this should bring more value to orvr killing and collecting Expedition Resources.
Mini tombs should reward Golden scaraps as a catch up for players who cant do weekend lotd for their accesories/mounts. And chance of event-slot items dropping
Tovl will reward Tyrant gear set with warlord ilvl.
Collosus will reward Golden cartushes which are used to get LOTD weapons (same as city weapons ilvl, not broken talismans lotd version from live)

End conclusion,
This is alot. It is very different from what we have atm. And some of the inspiration is taken from other MMOs where their RvR works in a more engaging way than RoR's RvR.
This will shift RvR into more of a Realm Warware, tie the gamemodes abit more together, and insert some of the purpose that has been lost over the last few years, while tackling some of the long standing issues of Battleobjective not mattering nor feeling engaging. With a global server the different timezones sees different playstyle and some different issues, tried to account for some of them with these suggestions. I am not expecting this to be a flawless suggestion pack, but atleast I tried to tie lose ends together and have a red line to follow. Something that honestly has felt like its been missing in the RoR direction for a while now. No direction and no focus on oRvR. Here was my suggestion atleast hoping to see changes in one way or an other to improve RoR RvR in 2023.
Bombling RR 91 - Bombthebuilder 82 Engi - Bombing 78 SL - Bling 72 Knight - Orderling 72 WP - Jackinabox 65WH
Gombling 85 mSH - Chopling 83 Choppa - Notbombling 82 Sorc - Powerhouse 81 Zealot - Goldbag 80 Mara - Smurfling 75 Sham -Blobling 66BO

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User avatar
Scottx125
Posts: 593

Re: 2022 oRVR overhaul suggestion

Post#2 » Thu Dec 01, 2022 1:57 pm

I mean aside from this taking a butt load of effort. Why would people want to push higher level forts that take far more effort by rather than farming lower level keeps? The rewards would have to be massive. I like the idea of making keeps more personalised for guilds.

To that, guilds should be able to fly to the defense of a claimed keep along with guilds in their alliance. Alliance guilds + others should also be able to contribute to the upkeep and upgrade process. Maybe have a war chest to drop resources in and next to the main guild banner you have the top 2 supporting guilds who also get some perks?

I do like the idea of making ORVR more involved and focused on capping points and weakening a keeps defense before attempting to take it. Slowing people down might mitigate zerging. Especially if bosses scale in strength after 24 players. Making it more efficient for WBs to split up.
Spoiler:
Seiigfrid RR 8X WP | Arthasus RR 7X KOTBS | Zalthazar RR 5X BW
Image
For the Gif in it's full glory:
Now a member of Oath.

Whyumadbro
Posts: 458

Re: 2022 oRVR overhaul suggestion

Post#3 » Thu Dec 01, 2022 3:15 pm

thanks for the amazing sugesstion - while reading i noticed the brainpower that was floating into it!

Cyrylius
Posts: 290

Re: 2022 oRVR overhaul suggestion

Post#4 » Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:00 am

Let the devs finish the goddamned ability rework first
RoR doesnt deserve being taken seriously.

SuperStar
Posts: 388

Re: 2022 oRVR overhaul suggestion

Post#5 » Fri Dec 02, 2022 11:42 am

Spoiler:
wonshot wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 1:19 pm Hello,
Brief introduction and goal
In 2020 I made one of these. It was a different game, some issues are the same, some have been resolved, and some are no longer an issue as direct responds to patches or playerbehavior.
The 2020 suggestion post and community feedback responses: viewtopic.php?t=42614

Some of the core issues with the game back then, I suggested to be attempted tackled with the introduction of "Weekly pips for oRvR inf" especially to make T2-T3 orvr zones more appealing.
Link to the suggestion and pretty much the system we have today with weekly orvr inf: viewtopic.php?p=510569&hilit=orvr+inf#p510569
And to make oRVR more of a replayability loop, aimed at a simple system allowing for any gear-level to progress along side players with any groupsize & any gameplay focus
- Green gear or full bis
- solo roaming or full realm-zerging
- casual or full sweatlord.

Some of these suggestions will be overlapping ideas from my suggestion back then. I will list it in a long post trying to cover as much of the full suggestion here to leave no gaps, with that said this is meant as just a suggestion to spark ideas and conversation to improve orvr and ror, i by no means expect this to be a perfect plug-n-play idea. But hopefully it will lead to conversations openly or internally to improve on RoR year after year.
Suggestion
1) Guild-ranks and keepclaiming + upgrades
2) Keeptakes and objectives
3) Campaign maps T2
4) Campaign maps T3-T4
5) Fortresses
6) Campaign score & City
7) Rallyingcry, roaming and warreport
8) LOTD phase1
9) LOTD phase2

1) Guild-ranks and keepclaming + upgrading keeps
Guild levels unlocking battlestandard tactics, keepclaim upgrades needs to be brought back to a point of mattering.
Guild claming a keep should work as a partly proudful point of being a representative force of your realm in the efforts of the campaign. While being a bonus to your realm for claiming and holding a keep, you put your guild on the map for friends and foes to see your pressence. Either for them to think twice about if they should attack your keep and if you are known for showing up and defending your land, or if you have a bad reputation of being a push-over. Guildnames and reputation needs to matter in the campaign.

Upgrading a keep will drain guildfunds(gold sink in a game that needs more!) for the higher the keep is being upgraded. A way to these upgrades will be the guildrank+keepstar whenclaiming it. Max level of guilds being raised to level 100. Each 10 levels will improve the keep-upgrades available. While also requireing the keepstars of an actively held keep to be pushed to unlock more of your upgrade potential.

Example:
1star keep allows for doorhealth upgrade only
2star keep allows for NPC guards to be upgraded from normal mobs to Champions
3star keep allows for NPC guards to be upgraded to Hero guards
4star keep allows for Oil to damage the ram
5star keep allows for the a cauldron mechanic to spawn at lords room

Guildrank upgrades allowed:
guildrank10 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 10% more
guildrank20 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 20% more
guildrank30 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 30% more
guildrank40 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 40% more, and NPCs will report ammount of enemy attackers nearby when they are killed in guildchat
(A Hero guard of your guild's keep has been killed with 33 enemies nearby)
guildrank50 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 50% more, and purchaseable upgrade to allow defenders dead inside outerwall to respawn inside inner keep.
guildrank60 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 60% more
guildrank70 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 70% more, and the claimed guild can freely fly into the keep from WC
guildrank80 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 80% more
guildrank90 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 90% more, and the alliance of the claimed keep can see ammount of enemy attackers nearby when the guards are killed
guildrank100 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 100% more, will provide all buffs from the guilds 3 battlestandards to all allies within range of the claimed keep

Captureing an enemy claimed keep and claiming it for yourself, will add their ruined banner trophy to your own guild-window trophy-collection to decorate the innerkeep with torn enemy guildbanners automatically hanging on the walls bottom floor all soiled and put to shame.
Claiming a keep will be done by an officer holding a guildstandard 3rd floor and claiming the keep by giving held standard to the upgrade-npc at the cost of the Banner. Only one guild can claim a keep at a time. A guild can only control one keep at a time to pick wicely which keep to hold and control.

2)Keeptakes and objectives
Right now with our current RvR zonelock systems zones go in a systematic order from T2 -> T3 -> T4 and then back and forth till a fortress has been captured and the pairing locked.
I am proposing a fully open ALL zones RvR campaign. So T2 Empire, Dwarf, Elf are all open in T2, T3, T4 all zones. While the fortresses are all open too in best DAoC style (relic)
So while all zones are open for attack, at any point what determines what zone to go for and why push keep ranks(?)
As mentioned above the keepranks will make the keeps take longer to take, this will stall the assault and give the defenders time to travel and respond to a siege. But numbers and strategy should also matter, so I am proposing the following:
- All ranged attacks can damage oil if they are in range (100ft) No more lack of logic where a throwing axe can hit inner oil, but a gunshot can not damage outer oil. :roll:
- Unmanned oil free to use will be spawned automatically every 2.5 - 3.5 minut on a random timer. No more oil warning eggwatch alerts. Oil will already be spawned when the siege begins and then taken out.
- Ram damage will scale with ammount of BOs controled during siege. 25% 50% 75% 100% normal damage depending on BOs.
- Door can only take damage from the ram with 25/100% dmg if the defending realm holds 4 BOs. And not from players unless atleast one BO is under control.
- Attacking realm can damage the door with abilities in 5ft range of the gate! Makes oil even more dangerous!
The ammount of people you bring to a storming of a castle should matter in the tempo of the siege. You can try to rush the door down by stacking but at the risk of oil masskill, or spend some forces trying to block incoming defenders arriving at the postern. Numbers should matter. While the BOs dont currently matter during a keepsiege, this suggestion will provide some smaller reason for action to still happening away of the keep during a keepsiege. IF the defenders hold all 4 BOs the gate can only be hit by the ram and not abilities, to force the zerg to split out on the map or take the keep really slow.

If one realm holds population momentum in EU prime, or NA primetime and the other realm is really outnumbered they can try and stall and force the outnumbering side to spread their numbers out.
"Will this not just lead to avoiding eachother and pvdoor?"
Potentially yes admittedly. But as I personally see it right now, whats the honest difference apart from players stacking on one realm, we have 4 tanks playing a minigame on the ram and everyone else are sitting mounted waiting for a 3min. oil respawn being guarddogs for the rammers. Atleast this will be more active and with player choice and rekindled guild/realm focus in a dynamic open campaign.

Zonelocks as we know them will not exist. Instead succesful keepcaptures or defences will be the bagroll moment.

3)Campaign maps T2
These maps only have one set of doors to breach, making them easier to rush and less reaction time. This will be a natural easier battlefield for lower population timezones (Asia, NA) and in case of all keep being held and upgraded with no flipping, these keeps will serve as a weaker point of attack in a succesful hold for long periodes of time to keep action flowing and bags/rewards still happening.

4) Campaign maps T3-T4
These are the outer + inner double door sieges.
Claiming, holding and upgrading these will prove to be rough strongholds hard to rush and besieging. Will require coordination and communication to keep defenders out or pinned inside a keep, while other attacks might happend on other keeps in other zones. The only way to tell where what keep will be next under attack will be by scouting from players in which zones warbands are spotted. And any big force caught attacking a keep all stacked on the door can be punished with oil or an ambush attack making sieges more engaging than 1dimensional system we have atm.

5) Fortresses
Tired of reservations, suddenly full defence team logging in to defend fort which were never seen in the last previous zone, or too much Nascar running in circles(?)
With the zones all being open to attacks at any moment, so will the fortresses be open. But they will work as big super keeps.
In a fortress zone will there be:
- 6 Battleobjectives
- Each Battleobjective will have a Fortress-guard (same difficulty as a keep-lord) protecting his Battleobjective and associated miniguards to protect him depending on his associated RvR-keep
Example: Destro have control over both keeps in KV, and in TM. But order have control over 1 keep in BC. That means there will be a keeplord on 5/6 of the BOs in Butcher's Pass.
Example: The keeplord in KV is rank4 claimed and have Hero guards, these are the same in the BO in Butcher's pass on the KV-fortress BO.
- For each alive Fortress-guard on a flag in a fortress zone the fortress lord himself will have 16% increased damage and damage reduction.
- The fortress doors will be open when 5/10 keeps minimum from T2-T3-T4 in a pairing have been captured. The Victory point bar will show how many keeps are blue/red total in all zones.
- Succesfully killing a Fortress-guard on a BO inside a fortress will put him on a 30min respawn timer showing on a map when the BO is captured.
- Should a keep fall while a fortress is attacked, the assosiated Fortress-guard from the keepzone will respawn back to defend(and buff fortress lord) in case of a defenders cap. or die if attackers.
- A succesful fortress attack will lock that fortress from being attacked for 3hours
- Succesful Fort attack will be based on killing the assosiated Fortress guards, players, and the Fortress lord.
- Succesful Fort defence will be given to players in the fortress zone based on their pvp kill contribution in their group/warband (forts are not solo content) The bags are given out when Fortress NPCs are back to full health from respawning or having been pulled and then resetting, the contribution for defending scales with the more pvp kills from defending. So cant farm bags from just letting an npc resetting without any killing in the zone. And cant stand afk doing nothing and get bags, need to actively contribute to build contribution.
- Defenders contribution scales with AAO for off-hour population imballance to reward the underdogs to try and attend.

6) Campaign score & City
A point system is then implimented depending on keepcontrol, BO control, Fortress control
- Each BO under Destro/Order control will count for 5points on the campaign status bar
- Each Keep under Destro/Order control will count for 50points on the campaign status bar
- Each Fortress under Destro/Order control will count for 250 points on the campaign status bar
- Winning LOTD will count as 100 points as tecnically the two warcamps are under control
When a scheduled city is fireing off, the realm with the most point as city queue starts will attack the other realm's Capital
This should make it so players who are about to have a city in a couple of hours can maybe shape their own fortune and not rely on other timeszones or previous days results. While previous days results still matter in terms of long held keeps will be more upgraded and tougher to take.

7)Rallyingcry, roaming and warreport
With the fear of this would become too much PvE, PvDoor and avoiding fighting the King of IC will send out a Rallying cry to a random zone every 1hour. Karl Franz will match and do the same for the same zone, both kings providing a buff while inside the zone boosting Renown gain, Crest gain, Expedition resource gain.
Warreport as a whole will be taken out of the game as it doesnt serve its original purpose and instead have been used to avoid pvp most of the time. Rallying cry will have the original teleport option to teleport to the selected zone by the kings.
Hopefully this system should make a "go-to" zone to find action with all zones open. But anyone could go whereever they please to buildup a zone, stop a build-up, or to split out the action to push the campaign.

8) LOTD phase1
LOTD stays as the game mode it is currently.
Upscaled Thunder Valley map with focus on Realm coordination. Expedition resources to get inside earned from kills in orvr.
Winning LOTD will count for 100 points towards the campaign status bar.

9) LOTD phase2
Mini tombs, Tovl, Collosus etc.
During the week when there is no active fight in LOTD the minitombs are open for the 4 encounters.
Collosus can be summoned by any realm whenever 5000 Resources are turned in, outside of the window of a planned LOTD phase1 fight. Players who cant make it for weekend LOTD phase1 can still save and attend for a collosus encounter during the week with their mates and guilds. In turn this should bring more value to orvr killing and collecting Expedition Resources.
Mini tombs should reward Golden scaraps as a catch up for players who cant do weekend lotd for their accesories/mounts. And chance of event-slot items dropping
Tovl will reward Tyrant gear set with warlord ilvl.
Collosus will reward Golden cartushes which are used to get LOTD weapons (same as city weapons ilvl, not broken talismans lotd version from live)

End conclusion,
This is alot. It is very different from what we have atm. And some of the inspiration is taken from other MMOs where their RvR works in a more engaging way than RoR's RvR.
This will shift RvR into more of a Realm Warware, tie the gamemodes abit more together, and insert some of the purpose that has been lost over the last few years, while tackling some of the long standing issues of Battleobjective not mattering nor feeling engaging. With a global server the different timezones sees different playstyle and some different issues, tried to account for some of them with these suggestions. I am not expecting this to be a flawless suggestion pack, but atleast I tried to tie lose ends together and have a red line to follow. Something that honestly has felt like its been missing in the RoR direction for a while now. No direction and no focus on oRvR. Here was my suggestion atleast hoping to see changes in one way or an other to improve RoR RvR in 2023.
Hi Bombling,
I respect the time what you put into this, but i think most of us dont need this.
Many of us cant even understand a sc like twisting tower or this weekend sc. They have no clue.

Most of us wanna almost constant action with minimal thinking. (WB leaders should think) also most of us have problem to follow a leader.

Other problem the communication between wb leaders not always the best.
Another problem the population is very few now.
Hopefully the big balance meta changing will save it.

Your ideas are too complicated and made for a players types and base what is only existing in your head.

For example zerg, just see land or any other zone. Pug wbs will blob up after 2-3 wipe. And we should accept it. And tolarete it. You cant do anything against it. They have right alone they will lose and wipe 3 times in a row and after they log out or blob up. I would like if they choose the blob. More fun a blobed enemy than a non existent enemy.



But your writing inspired me and i wrote what i think about what the mayority of the players and of course me want.

Here is my post:

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=49773

I think its easy to understand for all of us. It would make us almost constant action and fun.

Ersobhir
Posts: 5

Re: 2022 oRVR overhaul suggestion

Post#6 » Sun Dec 04, 2022 8:39 am

I have impression that many of those ideas were already implemented in WAR (not ROR as it was taken from END OF LIFE status) at the early beginning and somehow Mythic decided to change it to more or less what we can see right now.

User avatar
Bozzax
Posts: 2318

Re: 2022 oRVR overhaul suggestion

Post#7 » Sun Dec 04, 2022 9:57 am

Archetype rebalance is more urgent mdps rdps etc

A handful abilities needs to be reworked
A reasonable RvR system that could make the majority happy http://imgur.com/HL6cgl7

Gegga
Posts: 52

Re: 2022 oRVR overhaul suggestion

Post#8 » Sun Dec 04, 2022 3:08 pm

SuperStar wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 11:42 am
Spoiler:
wonshot wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 1:19 pm Hello,
Brief introduction and goal
In 2020 I made one of these. It was a different game, some issues are the same, some have been resolved, and some are no longer an issue as direct responds to patches or playerbehavior.
The 2020 suggestion post and community feedback responses: viewtopic.php?t=42614

Some of the core issues with the game back then, I suggested to be attempted tackled with the introduction of "Weekly pips for oRvR inf" especially to make T2-T3 orvr zones more appealing.
Link to the suggestion and pretty much the system we have today with weekly orvr inf: viewtopic.php?p=510569&hilit=orvr+inf#p510569
And to make oRVR more of a replayability loop, aimed at a simple system allowing for any gear-level to progress along side players with any groupsize & any gameplay focus
- Green gear or full bis
- solo roaming or full realm-zerging
- casual or full sweatlord.

Some of these suggestions will be overlapping ideas from my suggestion back then. I will list it in a long post trying to cover as much of the full suggestion here to leave no gaps, with that said this is meant as just a suggestion to spark ideas and conversation to improve orvr and ror, i by no means expect this to be a perfect plug-n-play idea. But hopefully it will lead to conversations openly or internally to improve on RoR year after year.
Suggestion
1) Guild-ranks and keepclaiming + upgrades
2) Keeptakes and objectives
3) Campaign maps T2
4) Campaign maps T3-T4
5) Fortresses
6) Campaign score & City
7) Rallyingcry, roaming and warreport
8) LOTD phase1
9) LOTD phase2

1) Guild-ranks and keepclaming + upgrading keeps
Guild levels unlocking battlestandard tactics, keepclaim upgrades needs to be brought back to a point of mattering.
Guild claming a keep should work as a partly proudful point of being a representative force of your realm in the efforts of the campaign. While being a bonus to your realm for claiming and holding a keep, you put your guild on the map for friends and foes to see your pressence. Either for them to think twice about if they should attack your keep and if you are known for showing up and defending your land, or if you have a bad reputation of being a push-over. Guildnames and reputation needs to matter in the campaign.

Upgrading a keep will drain guildfunds(gold sink in a game that needs more!) for the higher the keep is being upgraded. A way to these upgrades will be the guildrank+keepstar whenclaiming it. Max level of guilds being raised to level 100. Each 10 levels will improve the keep-upgrades available. While also requireing the keepstars of an actively held keep to be pushed to unlock more of your upgrade potential.

Example:
1star keep allows for doorhealth upgrade only
2star keep allows for NPC guards to be upgraded from normal mobs to Champions
3star keep allows for NPC guards to be upgraded to Hero guards
4star keep allows for Oil to damage the ram
5star keep allows for the a cauldron mechanic to spawn at lords room

Guildrank upgrades allowed:
guildrank10 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 10% more
guildrank20 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 20% more
guildrank30 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 30% more
guildrank40 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 40% more, and NPCs will report ammount of enemy attackers nearby when they are killed in guildchat
(A Hero guard of your guild's keep has been killed with 33 enemies nearby)
guildrank50 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 50% more, and purchaseable upgrade to allow defenders dead inside outerwall to respawn inside inner keep.
guildrank60 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 60% more
guildrank70 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 70% more, and the claimed guild can freely fly into the keep from WC
guildrank80 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 80% more
guildrank90 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 90% more, and the alliance of the claimed keep can see ammount of enemy attackers nearby when the guards are killed
guildrank100 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 100% more, will provide all buffs from the guilds 3 battlestandards to all allies within range of the claimed keep

Captureing an enemy claimed keep and claiming it for yourself, will add their ruined banner trophy to your own guild-window trophy-collection to decorate the innerkeep with torn enemy guildbanners automatically hanging on the walls bottom floor all soiled and put to shame.
Claiming a keep will be done by an officer holding a guildstandard 3rd floor and claiming the keep by giving held standard to the upgrade-npc at the cost of the Banner. Only one guild can claim a keep at a time. A guild can only control one keep at a time to pick wicely which keep to hold and control.

2)Keeptakes and objectives
Right now with our current RvR zonelock systems zones go in a systematic order from T2 -> T3 -> T4 and then back and forth till a fortress has been captured and the pairing locked.
I am proposing a fully open ALL zones RvR campaign. So T2 Empire, Dwarf, Elf are all open in T2, T3, T4 all zones. While the fortresses are all open too in best DAoC style (relic)
So while all zones are open for attack, at any point what determines what zone to go for and why push keep ranks(?)
As mentioned above the keepranks will make the keeps take longer to take, this will stall the assault and give the defenders time to travel and respond to a siege. But numbers and strategy should also matter, so I am proposing the following:
- All ranged attacks can damage oil if they are in range (100ft) No more lack of logic where a throwing axe can hit inner oil, but a gunshot can not damage outer oil. :roll:
- Unmanned oil free to use will be spawned automatically every 2.5 - 3.5 minut on a random timer. No more oil warning eggwatch alerts. Oil will already be spawned when the siege begins and then taken out.
- Ram damage will scale with ammount of BOs controled during siege. 25% 50% 75% 100% normal damage depending on BOs.
- Door can only take damage from the ram with 25/100% dmg if the defending realm holds 4 BOs. And not from players unless atleast one BO is under control.
- Attacking realm can damage the door with abilities in 5ft range of the gate! Makes oil even more dangerous!
The ammount of people you bring to a storming of a castle should matter in the tempo of the siege. You can try to rush the door down by stacking but at the risk of oil masskill, or spend some forces trying to block incoming defenders arriving at the postern. Numbers should matter. While the BOs dont currently matter during a keepsiege, this suggestion will provide some smaller reason for action to still happening away of the keep during a keepsiege. IF the defenders hold all 4 BOs the gate can only be hit by the ram and not abilities, to force the zerg to split out on the map or take the keep really slow.

If one realm holds population momentum in EU prime, or NA primetime and the other realm is really outnumbered they can try and stall and force the outnumbering side to spread their numbers out.
"Will this not just lead to avoiding eachother and pvdoor?"
Potentially yes admittedly. But as I personally see it right now, whats the honest difference apart from players stacking on one realm, we have 4 tanks playing a minigame on the ram and everyone else are sitting mounted waiting for a 3min. oil respawn being guarddogs for the rammers. Atleast this will be more active and with player choice and rekindled guild/realm focus in a dynamic open campaign.

Zonelocks as we know them will not exist. Instead succesful keepcaptures or defences will be the bagroll moment.

3)Campaign maps T2
These maps only have one set of doors to breach, making them easier to rush and less reaction time. This will be a natural easier battlefield for lower population timezones (Asia, NA) and in case of all keep being held and upgraded with no flipping, these keeps will serve as a weaker point of attack in a succesful hold for long periodes of time to keep action flowing and bags/rewards still happening.

4) Campaign maps T3-T4
These are the outer + inner double door sieges.
Claiming, holding and upgrading these will prove to be rough strongholds hard to rush and besieging. Will require coordination and communication to keep defenders out or pinned inside a keep, while other attacks might happend on other keeps in other zones. The only way to tell where what keep will be next under attack will be by scouting from players in which zones warbands are spotted. And any big force caught attacking a keep all stacked on the door can be punished with oil or an ambush attack making sieges more engaging than 1dimensional system we have atm.

5) Fortresses
Tired of reservations, suddenly full defence team logging in to defend fort which were never seen in the last previous zone, or too much Nascar running in circles(?)
With the zones all being open to attacks at any moment, so will the fortresses be open. But they will work as big super keeps.
In a fortress zone will there be:
- 6 Battleobjectives
- Each Battleobjective will have a Fortress-guard (same difficulty as a keep-lord) protecting his Battleobjective and associated miniguards to protect him depending on his associated RvR-keep
Example: Destro have control over both keeps in KV, and in TM. But order have control over 1 keep in BC. That means there will be a keeplord on 5/6 of the BOs in Butcher's Pass.
Example: The keeplord in KV is rank4 claimed and have Hero guards, these are the same in the BO in Butcher's pass on the KV-fortress BO.
- For each alive Fortress-guard on a flag in a fortress zone the fortress lord himself will have 16% increased damage and damage reduction.
- The fortress doors will be open when 5/10 keeps minimum from T2-T3-T4 in a pairing have been captured. The Victory point bar will show how many keeps are blue/red total in all zones.
- Succesfully killing a Fortress-guard on a BO inside a fortress will put him on a 30min respawn timer showing on a map when the BO is captured.
- Should a keep fall while a fortress is attacked, the assosiated Fortress-guard from the keepzone will respawn back to defend(and buff fortress lord) in case of a defenders cap. or die if attackers.
- A succesful fortress attack will lock that fortress from being attacked for 3hours
- Succesful Fort attack will be based on killing the assosiated Fortress guards, players, and the Fortress lord.
- Succesful Fort defence will be given to players in the fortress zone based on their pvp kill contribution in their group/warband (forts are not solo content) The bags are given out when Fortress NPCs are back to full health from respawning or having been pulled and then resetting, the contribution for defending scales with the more pvp kills from defending. So cant farm bags from just letting an npc resetting without any killing in the zone. And cant stand afk doing nothing and get bags, need to actively contribute to build contribution.
- Defenders contribution scales with AAO for off-hour population imballance to reward the underdogs to try and attend.

6) Campaign score & City
A point system is then implimented depending on keepcontrol, BO control, Fortress control
- Each BO under Destro/Order control will count for 5points on the campaign status bar
- Each Keep under Destro/Order control will count for 50points on the campaign status bar
- Each Fortress under Destro/Order control will count for 250 points on the campaign status bar
- Winning LOTD will count as 100 points as tecnically the two warcamps are under control
When a scheduled city is fireing off, the realm with the most point as city queue starts will attack the other realm's Capital
This should make it so players who are about to have a city in a couple of hours can maybe shape their own fortune and not rely on other timeszones or previous days results. While previous days results still matter in terms of long held keeps will be more upgraded and tougher to take.

7)Rallyingcry, roaming and warreport
With the fear of this would become too much PvE, PvDoor and avoiding fighting the King of IC will send out a Rallying cry to a random zone every 1hour. Karl Franz will match and do the same for the same zone, both kings providing a buff while inside the zone boosting Renown gain, Crest gain, Expedition resource gain.
Warreport as a whole will be taken out of the game as it doesnt serve its original purpose and instead have been used to avoid pvp most of the time. Rallying cry will have the original teleport option to teleport to the selected zone by the kings.
Hopefully this system should make a "go-to" zone to find action with all zones open. But anyone could go whereever they please to buildup a zone, stop a build-up, or to split out the action to push the campaign.

8) LOTD phase1
LOTD stays as the game mode it is currently.
Upscaled Thunder Valley map with focus on Realm coordination. Expedition resources to get inside earned from kills in orvr.
Winning LOTD will count for 100 points towards the campaign status bar.

9) LOTD phase2
Mini tombs, Tovl, Collosus etc.
During the week when there is no active fight in LOTD the minitombs are open for the 4 encounters.
Collosus can be summoned by any realm whenever 5000 Resources are turned in, outside of the window of a planned LOTD phase1 fight. Players who cant make it for weekend LOTD phase1 can still save and attend for a collosus encounter during the week with their mates and guilds. In turn this should bring more value to orvr killing and collecting Expedition Resources.
Mini tombs should reward Golden scaraps as a catch up for players who cant do weekend lotd for their accesories/mounts. And chance of event-slot items dropping
Tovl will reward Tyrant gear set with warlord ilvl.
Collosus will reward Golden cartushes which are used to get LOTD weapons (same as city weapons ilvl, not broken talismans lotd version from live)

End conclusion,
This is alot. It is very different from what we have atm. And some of the inspiration is taken from other MMOs where their RvR works in a more engaging way than RoR's RvR.
This will shift RvR into more of a Realm Warware, tie the gamemodes abit more together, and insert some of the purpose that has been lost over the last few years, while tackling some of the long standing issues of Battleobjective not mattering nor feeling engaging. With a global server the different timezones sees different playstyle and some different issues, tried to account for some of them with these suggestions. I am not expecting this to be a flawless suggestion pack, but atleast I tried to tie lose ends together and have a red line to follow. Something that honestly has felt like its been missing in the RoR direction for a while now. No direction and no focus on oRvR. Here was my suggestion atleast hoping to see changes in one way or an other to improve RoR RvR in 2023.
Hi Bombling,
I respect the time what you put into this, but i think most of us dont need this.
Many of us cant even understand a sc like twisting tower or this weekend sc. They have no clue.

Most of us wanna almost constant action with minimal thinking. (WB leaders should think) also most of us have problem to follow a leader.

Other problem the communication between wb leaders not always the best.
Another problem the population is very few now.
Hopefully the big balance meta changing will save it.

Your ideas are too complicated and made for a players types and base what is only existing in your head.

For example zerg, just see land or any other zone. Pug wbs will blob up after 2-3 wipe. And we should accept it. And tolarete it. You cant do anything against it. They have right alone they will lose and wipe 3 times in a row and after they log out or blob up. I would like if they choose the blob. More fun a blobed enemy than a non existent enemy.



But your writing inspired me and i wrote what i think about what the mayority of the players and of course me want.

Here is my post:

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=49773

I think its easy to understand for all of us. It would make us almost constant action and fun.
shame that every single one of your ideas is stupid, not thought through and solely based on what you want, not what would be good for the game.
Samson Biceps, famous egg

Ads
SuperStar
Posts: 388

Re: 2022 oRVR overhaul suggestion

Post#9 » Mon Dec 05, 2022 7:59 am

Gegga wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 3:08 pm
SuperStar wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 11:42 am
Spoiler:
wonshot wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 1:19 pm Hello,
Brief introduction and goal
In 2020 I made one of these. It was a different game, some issues are the same, some have been resolved, and some are no longer an issue as direct responds to patches or playerbehavior.
The 2020 suggestion post and community feedback responses: viewtopic.php?t=42614

Some of the core issues with the game back then, I suggested to be attempted tackled with the introduction of "Weekly pips for oRvR inf" especially to make T2-T3 orvr zones more appealing.
Link to the suggestion and pretty much the system we have today with weekly orvr inf: viewtopic.php?p=510569&hilit=orvr+inf#p510569
And to make oRVR more of a replayability loop, aimed at a simple system allowing for any gear-level to progress along side players with any groupsize & any gameplay focus
- Green gear or full bis
- solo roaming or full realm-zerging
- casual or full sweatlord.

Some of these suggestions will be overlapping ideas from my suggestion back then. I will list it in a long post trying to cover as much of the full suggestion here to leave no gaps, with that said this is meant as just a suggestion to spark ideas and conversation to improve orvr and ror, i by no means expect this to be a perfect plug-n-play idea. But hopefully it will lead to conversations openly or internally to improve on RoR year after year.
Suggestion
1) Guild-ranks and keepclaiming + upgrades
2) Keeptakes and objectives
3) Campaign maps T2
4) Campaign maps T3-T4
5) Fortresses
6) Campaign score & City
7) Rallyingcry, roaming and warreport
8) LOTD phase1
9) LOTD phase2

1) Guild-ranks and keepclaming + upgrading keeps
Guild levels unlocking battlestandard tactics, keepclaim upgrades needs to be brought back to a point of mattering.
Guild claming a keep should work as a partly proudful point of being a representative force of your realm in the efforts of the campaign. While being a bonus to your realm for claiming and holding a keep, you put your guild on the map for friends and foes to see your pressence. Either for them to think twice about if they should attack your keep and if you are known for showing up and defending your land, or if you have a bad reputation of being a push-over. Guildnames and reputation needs to matter in the campaign.

Upgrading a keep will drain guildfunds(gold sink in a game that needs more!) for the higher the keep is being upgraded. A way to these upgrades will be the guildrank+keepstar whenclaiming it. Max level of guilds being raised to level 100. Each 10 levels will improve the keep-upgrades available. While also requireing the keepstars of an actively held keep to be pushed to unlock more of your upgrade potential.

Example:
1star keep allows for doorhealth upgrade only
2star keep allows for NPC guards to be upgraded from normal mobs to Champions
3star keep allows for NPC guards to be upgraded to Hero guards
4star keep allows for Oil to damage the ram
5star keep allows for the a cauldron mechanic to spawn at lords room

Guildrank upgrades allowed:
guildrank10 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 10% more
guildrank20 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 20% more
guildrank30 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 30% more
guildrank40 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 40% more, and NPCs will report ammount of enemy attackers nearby when they are killed in guildchat
(A Hero guard of your guild's keep has been killed with 33 enemies nearby)
guildrank50 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 50% more, and purchaseable upgrade to allow defenders dead inside outerwall to respawn inside inner keep.
guildrank60 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 60% more
guildrank70 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 70% more, and the claimed guild can freely fly into the keep from WC
guildrank80 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 80% more
guildrank90 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 90% more, and the alliance of the claimed keep can see ammount of enemy attackers nearby when the guards are killed
guildrank100 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 100% more, will provide all buffs from the guilds 3 battlestandards to all allies within range of the claimed keep

Captureing an enemy claimed keep and claiming it for yourself, will add their ruined banner trophy to your own guild-window trophy-collection to decorate the innerkeep with torn enemy guildbanners automatically hanging on the walls bottom floor all soiled and put to shame.
Claiming a keep will be done by an officer holding a guildstandard 3rd floor and claiming the keep by giving held standard to the upgrade-npc at the cost of the Banner. Only one guild can claim a keep at a time. A guild can only control one keep at a time to pick wicely which keep to hold and control.

2)Keeptakes and objectives
Right now with our current RvR zonelock systems zones go in a systematic order from T2 -> T3 -> T4 and then back and forth till a fortress has been captured and the pairing locked.
I am proposing a fully open ALL zones RvR campaign. So T2 Empire, Dwarf, Elf are all open in T2, T3, T4 all zones. While the fortresses are all open too in best DAoC style (relic)
So while all zones are open for attack, at any point what determines what zone to go for and why push keep ranks(?)
As mentioned above the keepranks will make the keeps take longer to take, this will stall the assault and give the defenders time to travel and respond to a siege. But numbers and strategy should also matter, so I am proposing the following:
- All ranged attacks can damage oil if they are in range (100ft) No more lack of logic where a throwing axe can hit inner oil, but a gunshot can not damage outer oil. :roll:
- Unmanned oil free to use will be spawned automatically every 2.5 - 3.5 minut on a random timer. No more oil warning eggwatch alerts. Oil will already be spawned when the siege begins and then taken out.
- Ram damage will scale with ammount of BOs controled during siege. 25% 50% 75% 100% normal damage depending on BOs.
- Door can only take damage from the ram with 25/100% dmg if the defending realm holds 4 BOs. And not from players unless atleast one BO is under control.
- Attacking realm can damage the door with abilities in 5ft range of the gate! Makes oil even more dangerous!
The ammount of people you bring to a storming of a castle should matter in the tempo of the siege. You can try to rush the door down by stacking but at the risk of oil masskill, or spend some forces trying to block incoming defenders arriving at the postern. Numbers should matter. While the BOs dont currently matter during a keepsiege, this suggestion will provide some smaller reason for action to still happening away of the keep during a keepsiege. IF the defenders hold all 4 BOs the gate can only be hit by the ram and not abilities, to force the zerg to split out on the map or take the keep really slow.

If one realm holds population momentum in EU prime, or NA primetime and the other realm is really outnumbered they can try and stall and force the outnumbering side to spread their numbers out.
Potentially yes admittedly. But as I personally see it right now, whats the honest difference apart from players stacking on one realm, we have 4 tanks playing a minigame on the ram and everyone else are sitting mounted waiting for a 3min. oil respawn being guarddogs for the rammers. Atleast this will be more active and with player choice and rekindled guild/realm focus in a dynamic open campaign.

Zonelocks as we know them will not exist. Instead succesful keepcaptures or defences will be the bagroll moment.

3)Campaign maps T2
These maps only have one set of doors to breach, making them easier to rush and less reaction time. This will be a natural easier battlefield for lower population timezones (Asia, NA) and in case of all keep being held and upgraded with no flipping, these keeps will serve as a weaker point of attack in a succesful hold for long periodes of time to keep action flowing and bags/rewards still happening.

4) Campaign maps T3-T4
These are the outer + inner double door sieges.
Claiming, holding and upgrading these will prove to be rough strongholds hard to rush and besieging. Will require coordination and communication to keep defenders out or pinned inside a keep, while other attacks might happend on other keeps in other zones. The only way to tell where what keep will be next under attack will be by scouting from players in which zones warbands are spotted. And any big force caught attacking a keep all stacked on the door can be punished with oil or an ambush attack making sieges more engaging than 1dimensional system we have atm.

5) Fortresses
Tired of reservations, suddenly full defence team logging in to defend fort which were never seen in the last previous zone, or too much Nascar running in circles(?)
With the zones all being open to attacks at any moment, so will the fortresses be open. But they will work as big super keeps.
In a fortress zone will there be:
- 6 Battleobjectives
- Each Battleobjective will have a Fortress-guard (same difficulty as a keep-lord) protecting his Battleobjective and associated miniguards to protect him depending on his associated RvR-keep
Example: Destro have control over both keeps in KV, and in TM. But order have control over 1 keep in BC. That means there will be a keeplord on 5/6 of the BOs in Butcher's Pass.
Example: The keeplord in KV is rank4 claimed and have Hero guards, these are the same in the BO in Butcher's pass on the KV-fortress BO.
- For each alive Fortress-guard on a flag in a fortress zone the fortress lord himself will have 16% increased damage and damage reduction.
- The fortress doors will be open when 5/10 keeps minimum from T2-T3-T4 in a pairing have been captured. The Victory point bar will show how many keeps are blue/red total in all zones.
- Succesfully killing a Fortress-guard on a BO inside a fortress will put him on a 30min respawn timer showing on a map when the BO is captured.
- Should a keep fall while a fortress is attacked, the assosiated Fortress-guard from the keepzone will respawn back to defend(and buff fortress lord) in case of a defenders cap. or die if attackers.
- A succesful fortress attack will lock that fortress from being attacked for 3hours
- Succesful Fort attack will be based on killing the assosiated Fortress guards, players, and the Fortress lord.
- Succesful Fort defence will be given to players in the fortress zone based on their pvp kill contribution in their group/warband (forts are not solo content) The bags are given out when Fortress NPCs are back to full health from respawning or having been pulled and then resetting, the contribution for defending scales with the more pvp kills from defending. So cant farm bags from just letting an npc resetting without any killing in the zone. And cant stand afk doing nothing and get bags, need to actively contribute to build contribution.
- Defenders contribution scales with AAO for off-hour population imballance to reward the underdogs to try and attend.

6) Campaign score & City
A point system is then implimented depending on keepcontrol, BO control, Fortress control
- Each BO under Destro/Order control will count for 5points on the campaign status bar
- Each Keep under Destro/Order control will count for 50points on the campaign status bar
- Each Fortress under Destro/Order control will count for 250 points on the campaign status bar
- Winning LOTD will count as 100 points as tecnically the two warcamps are under control
When a scheduled city is fireing off, the realm with the most point as city queue starts will attack the other realm's Capital
This should make it so players who are about to have a city in a couple of hours can maybe shape their own fortune and not rely on other timeszones or previous days results. While previous days results still matter in terms of long held keeps will be more upgraded and tougher to take.

7)Rallyingcry, roaming and warreport
With the fear of this would become too much PvE, PvDoor and avoiding fighting the King of IC will send out a Rallying cry to a random zone every 1hour. Karl Franz will match and do the same for the same zone, both kings providing a buff while inside the zone boosting Renown gain, Crest gain, Expedition resource gain.
Warreport as a whole will be taken out of the game as it doesnt serve its original purpose and instead have been used to avoid pvp most of the time. Rallying cry will have the original teleport option to teleport to the selected zone by the kings.
Hopefully this system should make a "go-to" zone to find action with all zones open. But anyone could go whereever they please to buildup a zone, stop a build-up, or to split out the action to push the campaign.

8) LOTD phase1
LOTD stays as the game mode it is currently.
Upscaled Thunder Valley map with focus on Realm coordination. Expedition resources to get inside earned from kills in orvr.
Winning LOTD will count for 100 points towards the campaign status bar.

9) LOTD phase2
Mini tombs, Tovl, Collosus etc.
During the week when there is no active fight in LOTD the minitombs are open for the 4 encounters.
Collosus can be summoned by any realm whenever 5000 Resources are turned in, outside of the window of a planned LOTD phase1 fight. Players who cant make it for weekend LOTD phase1 can still save and attend for a collosus encounter during the week with their mates and guilds. In turn this should bring more value to orvr killing and collecting Expedition Resources.
Mini tombs should reward Golden scaraps as a catch up for players who cant do weekend lotd for their accesories/mounts. And chance of event-slot items dropping
Tovl will reward Tyrant gear set with warlord ilvl.
Collosus will reward Golden cartushes which are used to get LOTD weapons (same as city weapons ilvl, not broken talismans lotd version from live)

End conclusion,
This is alot. It is very different from what we have atm. And some of the inspiration is taken from other MMOs where their RvR works in a more engaging way than RoR's RvR.
This will shift RvR into more of a Realm Warware, tie the gamemodes abit more together, and insert some of the purpose that has been lost over the last few years, while tackling some of the long standing issues of Battleobjective not mattering nor feeling engaging. With a global server the different timezones sees different playstyle and some different issues, tried to account for some of them with these suggestions. I am not expecting this to be a flawless suggestion pack, but atleast I tried to tie lose ends together and have a red line to follow. Something that honestly has felt like its been missing in the RoR direction for a while now. No direction and no focus on oRvR. Here was my suggestion atleast hoping to see changes in one way or an other to improve RoR RvR in 2023.
Hi Bombling,
I respect the time what you put into this, but i think most of us dont need this.
Many of us cant even understand a sc like twisting tower or this weekend sc. They have no clue.

Most of us wanna almost constant action with minimal thinking. (WB leaders should think) also most of us have problem to follow a leader.

Other problem the communication between wb leaders not always the best.
Another problem the population is very few now.
Hopefully the big balance meta changing will save it.

Your ideas are too complicated and made for a players types and base what is only existing in your head.

For example zerg, just see land or any other zone. Pug wbs will blob up after 2-3 wipe. And we should accept it. And tolarete it. You cant do anything against it. They have right alone they will lose and wipe 3 times in a row and after they log out or blob up. I would like if they choose the blob. More fun a blobed enemy than a non existent enemy.



But your writing inspired me and i wrote what i think about what the mayority of the players and of course me want.

Here is my post:

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=49773

I think its easy to understand for all of us. It would make us almost constant action and fun.
shame that every single one of your ideas is stupid, not thought through and solely based on what you want, not what would be good for the game.
Its not clear to me did you write this to me voz my ideas in this topic:
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=49773

My ideas are epic. Everybody knows that. And great for everyone, if you have constactive criticism (i will surprised:P) or you cant understand something come my topic and dont spam into Bombling topic.

And never forget what is good for me is good for the server. I always think about my victims and partners in the crime.

Whyumadbro
Posts: 458

Re: 2022 oRVR overhaul suggestion

Post#10 » Mon Dec 05, 2022 2:32 pm

Gegga wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 3:08 pm
SuperStar wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 11:42 am
Spoiler:
wonshot wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 1:19 pm Hello,
Brief introduction and goal
In 2020 I made one of these. It was a different game, some issues are the same, some have been resolved, and some are no longer an issue as direct responds to patches or playerbehavior.
The 2020 suggestion post and community feedback responses: viewtopic.php?t=42614

Some of the core issues with the game back then, I suggested to be attempted tackled with the introduction of "Weekly pips for oRvR inf" especially to make T2-T3 orvr zones more appealing.
Link to the suggestion and pretty much the system we have today with weekly orvr inf: viewtopic.php?p=510569&hilit=orvr+inf#p510569
And to make oRVR more of a replayability loop, aimed at a simple system allowing for any gear-level to progress along side players with any groupsize & any gameplay focus
- Green gear or full bis
- solo roaming or full realm-zerging
- casual or full sweatlord.

Some of these suggestions will be overlapping ideas from my suggestion back then. I will list it in a long post trying to cover as much of the full suggestion here to leave no gaps, with that said this is meant as just a suggestion to spark ideas and conversation to improve orvr and ror, i by no means expect this to be a perfect plug-n-play idea. But hopefully it will lead to conversations openly or internally to improve on RoR year after year.
Suggestion
1) Guild-ranks and keepclaiming + upgrades
2) Keeptakes and objectives
3) Campaign maps T2
4) Campaign maps T3-T4
5) Fortresses
6) Campaign score & City
7) Rallyingcry, roaming and warreport
8) LOTD phase1
9) LOTD phase2

1) Guild-ranks and keepclaming + upgrading keeps
Guild levels unlocking battlestandard tactics, keepclaim upgrades needs to be brought back to a point of mattering.
Guild claming a keep should work as a partly proudful point of being a representative force of your realm in the efforts of the campaign. While being a bonus to your realm for claiming and holding a keep, you put your guild on the map for friends and foes to see your pressence. Either for them to think twice about if they should attack your keep and if you are known for showing up and defending your land, or if you have a bad reputation of being a push-over. Guildnames and reputation needs to matter in the campaign.

Upgrading a keep will drain guildfunds(gold sink in a game that needs more!) for the higher the keep is being upgraded. A way to these upgrades will be the guildrank+keepstar whenclaiming it. Max level of guilds being raised to level 100. Each 10 levels will improve the keep-upgrades available. While also requireing the keepstars of an actively held keep to be pushed to unlock more of your upgrade potential.

Example:
1star keep allows for doorhealth upgrade only
2star keep allows for NPC guards to be upgraded from normal mobs to Champions
3star keep allows for NPC guards to be upgraded to Hero guards
4star keep allows for Oil to damage the ram
5star keep allows for the a cauldron mechanic to spawn at lords room

Guildrank upgrades allowed:
guildrank10 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 10% more
guildrank20 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 20% more
guildrank30 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 30% more
guildrank40 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 40% more, and NPCs will report ammount of enemy attackers nearby when they are killed in guildchat
(A Hero guard of your guild's keep has been killed with 33 enemies nearby)
guildrank50 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 50% more, and purchaseable upgrade to allow defenders dead inside outerwall to respawn inside inner keep.
guildrank60 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 60% more
guildrank70 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 70% more, and the claimed guild can freely fly into the keep from WC
guildrank80 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 80% more
guildrank90 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 90% more, and the alliance of the claimed keep can see ammount of enemy attackers nearby when the guards are killed
guildrank100 doorhealth can be purchased on 3rd floor to increase with 100% more, will provide all buffs from the guilds 3 battlestandards to all allies within range of the claimed keep

Captureing an enemy claimed keep and claiming it for yourself, will add their ruined banner trophy to your own guild-window trophy-collection to decorate the innerkeep with torn enemy guildbanners automatically hanging on the walls bottom floor all soiled and put to shame.
Claiming a keep will be done by an officer holding a guildstandard 3rd floor and claiming the keep by giving held standard to the upgrade-npc at the cost of the Banner. Only one guild can claim a keep at a time. A guild can only control one keep at a time to pick wicely which keep to hold and control.

2)Keeptakes and objectives
Right now with our current RvR zonelock systems zones go in a systematic order from T2 -> T3 -> T4 and then back and forth till a fortress has been captured and the pairing locked.
I am proposing a fully open ALL zones RvR campaign. So T2 Empire, Dwarf, Elf are all open in T2, T3, T4 all zones. While the fortresses are all open too in best DAoC style (relic)
So while all zones are open for attack, at any point what determines what zone to go for and why push keep ranks(?)
As mentioned above the keepranks will make the keeps take longer to take, this will stall the assault and give the defenders time to travel and respond to a siege. But numbers and strategy should also matter, so I am proposing the following:
- All ranged attacks can damage oil if they are in range (100ft) No more lack of logic where a throwing axe can hit inner oil, but a gunshot can not damage outer oil. :roll:
- Unmanned oil free to use will be spawned automatically every 2.5 - 3.5 minut on a random timer. No more oil warning eggwatch alerts. Oil will already be spawned when the siege begins and then taken out.
- Ram damage will scale with ammount of BOs controled during siege. 25% 50% 75% 100% normal damage depending on BOs.
- Door can only take damage from the ram with 25/100% dmg if the defending realm holds 4 BOs. And not from players unless atleast one BO is under control.
- Attacking realm can damage the door with abilities in 5ft range of the gate! Makes oil even more dangerous!
The ammount of people you bring to a storming of a castle should matter in the tempo of the siege. You can try to rush the door down by stacking but at the risk of oil masskill, or spend some forces trying to block incoming defenders arriving at the postern. Numbers should matter. While the BOs dont currently matter during a keepsiege, this suggestion will provide some smaller reason for action to still happening away of the keep during a keepsiege. IF the defenders hold all 4 BOs the gate can only be hit by the ram and not abilities, to force the zerg to split out on the map or take the keep really slow.

If one realm holds population momentum in EU prime, or NA primetime and the other realm is really outnumbered they can try and stall and force the outnumbering side to spread their numbers out.
Potentially yes admittedly. But as I personally see it right now, whats the honest difference apart from players stacking on one realm, we have 4 tanks playing a minigame on the ram and everyone else are sitting mounted waiting for a 3min. oil respawn being guarddogs for the rammers. Atleast this will be more active and with player choice and rekindled guild/realm focus in a dynamic open campaign.

Zonelocks as we know them will not exist. Instead succesful keepcaptures or defences will be the bagroll moment.

3)Campaign maps T2
These maps only have one set of doors to breach, making them easier to rush and less reaction time. This will be a natural easier battlefield for lower population timezones (Asia, NA) and in case of all keep being held and upgraded with no flipping, these keeps will serve as a weaker point of attack in a succesful hold for long periodes of time to keep action flowing and bags/rewards still happening.

4) Campaign maps T3-T4
These are the outer + inner double door sieges.
Claiming, holding and upgrading these will prove to be rough strongholds hard to rush and besieging. Will require coordination and communication to keep defenders out or pinned inside a keep, while other attacks might happend on other keeps in other zones. The only way to tell where what keep will be next under attack will be by scouting from players in which zones warbands are spotted. And any big force caught attacking a keep all stacked on the door can be punished with oil or an ambush attack making sieges more engaging than 1dimensional system we have atm.

5) Fortresses
Tired of reservations, suddenly full defence team logging in to defend fort which were never seen in the last previous zone, or too much Nascar running in circles(?)
With the zones all being open to attacks at any moment, so will the fortresses be open. But they will work as big super keeps.
In a fortress zone will there be:
- 6 Battleobjectives
- Each Battleobjective will have a Fortress-guard (same difficulty as a keep-lord) protecting his Battleobjective and associated miniguards to protect him depending on his associated RvR-keep
Example: Destro have control over both keeps in KV, and in TM. But order have control over 1 keep in BC. That means there will be a keeplord on 5/6 of the BOs in Butcher's Pass.
Example: The keeplord in KV is rank4 claimed and have Hero guards, these are the same in the BO in Butcher's pass on the KV-fortress BO.
- For each alive Fortress-guard on a flag in a fortress zone the fortress lord himself will have 16% increased damage and damage reduction.
- The fortress doors will be open when 5/10 keeps minimum from T2-T3-T4 in a pairing have been captured. The Victory point bar will show how many keeps are blue/red total in all zones.
- Succesfully killing a Fortress-guard on a BO inside a fortress will put him on a 30min respawn timer showing on a map when the BO is captured.
- Should a keep fall while a fortress is attacked, the assosiated Fortress-guard from the keepzone will respawn back to defend(and buff fortress lord) in case of a defenders cap. or die if attackers.
- A succesful fortress attack will lock that fortress from being attacked for 3hours
- Succesful Fort attack will be based on killing the assosiated Fortress guards, players, and the Fortress lord.
- Succesful Fort defence will be given to players in the fortress zone based on their pvp kill contribution in their group/warband (forts are not solo content) The bags are given out when Fortress NPCs are back to full health from respawning or having been pulled and then resetting, the contribution for defending scales with the more pvp kills from defending. So cant farm bags from just letting an npc resetting without any killing in the zone. And cant stand afk doing nothing and get bags, need to actively contribute to build contribution.
- Defenders contribution scales with AAO for off-hour population imballance to reward the underdogs to try and attend.

6) Campaign score & City
A point system is then implimented depending on keepcontrol, BO control, Fortress control
- Each BO under Destro/Order control will count for 5points on the campaign status bar
- Each Keep under Destro/Order control will count for 50points on the campaign status bar
- Each Fortress under Destro/Order control will count for 250 points on the campaign status bar
- Winning LOTD will count as 100 points as tecnically the two warcamps are under control
When a scheduled city is fireing off, the realm with the most point as city queue starts will attack the other realm's Capital
This should make it so players who are about to have a city in a couple of hours can maybe shape their own fortune and not rely on other timeszones or previous days results. While previous days results still matter in terms of long held keeps will be more upgraded and tougher to take.

7)Rallyingcry, roaming and warreport
With the fear of this would become too much PvE, PvDoor and avoiding fighting the King of IC will send out a Rallying cry to a random zone every 1hour. Karl Franz will match and do the same for the same zone, both kings providing a buff while inside the zone boosting Renown gain, Crest gain, Expedition resource gain.
Warreport as a whole will be taken out of the game as it doesnt serve its original purpose and instead have been used to avoid pvp most of the time. Rallying cry will have the original teleport option to teleport to the selected zone by the kings.
Hopefully this system should make a "go-to" zone to find action with all zones open. But anyone could go whereever they please to buildup a zone, stop a build-up, or to split out the action to push the campaign.

8) LOTD phase1
LOTD stays as the game mode it is currently.
Upscaled Thunder Valley map with focus on Realm coordination. Expedition resources to get inside earned from kills in orvr.
Winning LOTD will count for 100 points towards the campaign status bar.

9) LOTD phase2
Mini tombs, Tovl, Collosus etc.
During the week when there is no active fight in LOTD the minitombs are open for the 4 encounters.
Collosus can be summoned by any realm whenever 5000 Resources are turned in, outside of the window of a planned LOTD phase1 fight. Players who cant make it for weekend LOTD phase1 can still save and attend for a collosus encounter during the week with their mates and guilds. In turn this should bring more value to orvr killing and collecting Expedition Resources.
Mini tombs should reward Golden scaraps as a catch up for players who cant do weekend lotd for their accesories/mounts. And chance of event-slot items dropping
Tovl will reward Tyrant gear set with warlord ilvl.
Collosus will reward Golden cartushes which are used to get LOTD weapons (same as city weapons ilvl, not broken talismans lotd version from live)

End conclusion,
This is alot. It is very different from what we have atm. And some of the inspiration is taken from other MMOs where their RvR works in a more engaging way than RoR's RvR.
This will shift RvR into more of a Realm Warware, tie the gamemodes abit more together, and insert some of the purpose that has been lost over the last few years, while tackling some of the long standing issues of Battleobjective not mattering nor feeling engaging. With a global server the different timezones sees different playstyle and some different issues, tried to account for some of them with these suggestions. I am not expecting this to be a flawless suggestion pack, but atleast I tried to tie lose ends together and have a red line to follow. Something that honestly has felt like its been missing in the RoR direction for a while now. No direction and no focus on oRvR. Here was my suggestion atleast hoping to see changes in one way or an other to improve RoR RvR in 2023.
Hi Bombling,
I respect the time what you put into this, but i think most of us dont need this.
Many of us cant even understand a sc like twisting tower or this weekend sc. They have no clue.

Most of us wanna almost constant action with minimal thinking. (WB leaders should think) also most of us have problem to follow a leader.

Other problem the communication between wb leaders not always the best.
Another problem the population is very few now.
Hopefully the big balance meta changing will save it.

Your ideas are too complicated and made for a players types and base what is only existing in your head.

For example zerg, just see land or any other zone. Pug wbs will blob up after 2-3 wipe. And we should accept it. And tolarete it. You cant do anything against it. They have right alone they will lose and wipe 3 times in a row and after they log out or blob up. I would like if they choose the blob. More fun a blobed enemy than a non existent enemy.



But your writing inspired me and i wrote what i think about what the mayority of the players and of course me want.

Here is my post:

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=49773

I think its easy to understand for all of us. It would make us almost constant action and fun.
shame that every single one of your ideas is stupid, not thought through and solely based on what you want, not what would be good for the game.
holy based! yes thats right

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