Big RvROverhaul BrainStorm

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SuperStar
Posts: 388

Big RvROverhaul BrainStorm

Post#1 » Fri Dec 02, 2022 9:29 am

this idea was inspired by Bombling's post

some ideas I liked some I didn't
some I didn't understand how it would improve the experience

So i diceded i make my own.

Let me introduce the Big RvROverhaul BrainStorm! (balance and meta update more important imo):

identifying problems:
- keep leveling, box running are boring
- siege are boring
- fort are boring
- hitting the non player lords/heroes are boring
- run is too many, fight is too less, i need more action

Solutions:
keep leveling:
- we should forget the boxes,
- kills and bo holding should level the keep, on bo the kills should count double
-after a certain time 10 minutes BO could be claimed and then player controlled champion could protect
- who holds the flag could be ported there like in city
- the occupation should be cast as in city
- the bo leveling could also be corresponded with the kills made on that bo( e.g. landmarks would appear and the map would show the enemy from further away near the bo like a watchtower

keep siege:
- forget the non-player lords
- lords should be player controlled to whoever has the most active guild members in the zone
-multiple lords 4 too (this can be fine tuned with population)
- bring back the skavens, you should get troops into the keep using ratogre, how many ratogre you have would depend on the population
- oil should be perma and unkillable, but its damage should be healable, toughness and resist and guard should be affected
- make the doors vulnerable to melee by ranged as well
- the doors can be walked on by the defenders under 50%


Fort siege:
- should be like a normal siege with oil with outer wall, rams
- forget non-player lords
- the lords should be player-controlled by whoever has the most active guild members in the zone
-there could be 4 lords per side (this can be fine tuned with population)
- could be timed like land and city

LotD:
- forget the bos,
- bring back the old pq's and make their completion count and generate points and other valuable rewards
- bring back the tombs, completing them should also earn points (of course, the tombs can be attacked while the other team is trying to get in, like the tovl)
- that way it would be fun for everyone in my opinion
- bring back the wordboss, whoever wins the land can kill for valuable rewards, but the other side can prevent it
- it should be run on whole weekend


I am of course interested in your comments and ideas


I forget to mentioned but the player contolled lords would has different skill set and they would be famous warhammer fantasy chars
Last edited by SuperStar on Fri Dec 02, 2022 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Scottx125
Posts: 587

Re: Big RvROverhaul BrainStorm

Post#2 » Fri Dec 02, 2022 2:03 pm

I don't like the BO system. People don't want to stand around defending a BO. They want to fight people. Maybe treat BOs like SC ones. Once a side caps them they spawn mini bosses and guards (stops 1 man ninja caps). Then after 10 minutes the point will automatically become neutral with no guards. Or if you want to direct the fight, have BOs lock for a short period after capture. Or perhaps use the lord system of linked BOs. You need to cap each consecutive BO to reach the keep (they also passively produce resources).

Imo you have to ask what's the point of BOs? For me they're there to direct the flow of the fight. But also act as important resource nodes to unlock the next fight (keep).

The big thing ruining ORvR is people jumping on the winning side causing a zerg to form. We want equal numbers, or a way to bolster the outnumbered side so that the fight isn't a foregone conclusion. Why fight when you know you're gonna lose and get little for it?
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MonkeyHead
Posts: 46

Re: Big RvROverhaul BrainStorm

Post#3 » Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:44 pm

Mirror the classes and then make all 3 trees useful and fun.

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normanis
Posts: 1117
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Re: Big RvROverhaul BrainStorm

Post#4 » Sat Dec 03, 2022 6:24 am

u whant fight over battle objectives? bring back micro ticks from each controlled objective.
make guild quests popular. cap x keeps/forst/objectives for y amount guild coin.
to stop pve keeps make respawn in keep after 1 star. increase lord hp by controlled objectives (its was here , byt it was reomwed) like 400% aao 4 controlled objects give lot boffs to lord. 100% aao gives 1 buff to lord + each controled object give hp 10%.
"Iron Within, Iron Without!"

SuperStar
Posts: 388

Re: Big RvROverhaul BrainStorm

Post#5 » Mon Dec 05, 2022 9:49 am

Reply for Scott:
Thank you for your response!

I dont like the current bo system either. And whole keep lvling is boring.
But if the players would be rewarded and forced to def and hold or attack a bo similar as a keep it would be fun. Imo. Imagine city middle bo. So much fun there. We need that mechanic everywhere on rvr.

I dont like hit mobs/npc at all. This is why i wanted player contolled bo champions. (Old times forts has this feature.)

Your linked bos system sound great on paper but we saw it at lotd and it just boring like hell we all wanna action nobody gives s. about bo. Its just a burde.

Bo should be important and the place where the fun is. Hard to capture hard to hold.

Less run more fight.

About your population problem: if you good at the style what you play the population is doesn't matter when the reward coming.

Reply for Monkey:
Thank you for your response!

All 3 tree usefull is my dream, but am not sure about the full mirror. It would be fair its sure but maybe boring.

Reply for norman:
Thank you for your response!

Its oke for me to get rr tick while you stand and def a bo. Same amount like a box.

About guild coin: its a long run to get the guild mount my bigger problem bork has a same 🐖 :(
Nothing fancy.

With my idea the keep sieges would be fun and entertainment i dont think any empy keep would be.
But we should forget the npc lord. And make my ideas for that.

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Fenris78
Posts: 666

Re: Big RvROverhaul BrainStorm

Post#6 » Mon Dec 05, 2022 10:06 am

NPC lords are boring, ever since they removed mechanics like megabump and riposte (wich caused many SM/Bork deaths but at least healers had something to do :p ).

The only interesting mechanic left is Ork/Dwarf fortress lords, where is something else to do than hitting a HP sack, with guard of jail and bottom level control for Banner/Barrel respawn.

The only interesting fights, and sometimes even big twist of fate with Destro retaking bottom floor after jailbreak, totally preventing Order to kill the lord before timer expires, were happening thanks to this mechanic.

It should be put in place in every keep and fort of the game tbh, or at least similar mechanics to allow people contribute with something else than beating a silly NPC to death for 10 minutes before scattering everywhere and flipping zones.

SuperStar
Posts: 388

Re: Big RvROverhaul BrainStorm

Post#7 » Mon Dec 05, 2022 3:01 pm

Spoiler:
Fenris78 wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 10:06 am NPC lords are boring, ever since they removed mechanics like megabump and riposte (wich caused many SM/Bork deaths but at least healers had something to do :p ).

The only interesting mechanic left is Ork/Dwarf fortress lords, where is something else to do than hitting a HP sack, with guard of jail and bottom level control for Banner/Barrel respawn.

The only interesting fights, and sometimes even big twist of fate with Destro retaking bottom floor after jailbreak, totally preventing Order to kill the lord before timer expires, were happening thanks to this mechanic.

It should be put in place in every keep and fort of the game tbh, or at least similar mechanics to allow people contribute with something else than beating a silly NPC to death for 10 minutes before scattering everywhere and flipping zones.
Thank you for your response!

I totally agree idk why we hit a f boring npc in a pvp game.

I dont feel any siege atmosphere at fort. Just a catch me if you can game. With a boring npc.

I dont think minor changes can save these sieges.

If the fort population bad then the defenders should have access more player controlled lords for their and the attackers fun defenders. We dont need npc at all outside the wc imo.

I almost forget to mentioned it but when we hit the npc we get morale while the defenders even if they want to come back and try to def their noob npc lord, will get a morale bomb on their face. Coz their lord what they wanna save give the attackers fine morale.

Its a shame. Nobody needs these kind of lords

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Tesq
Posts: 5518

Re: Big RvROverhaul BrainStorm

Post#8 » Thu Dec 08, 2022 7:34 pm

Bring back timers on flags but make it syncro for all flags, that will fix snowballing.

Make fort like official lotd , with atkrs wc to conquer to end fort. Make fort open again.

Make city open into a t5 of sort

Make the game oRvR again, no more close instancing.
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Avernus
Posts: 57

Re: Big RvROverhaul BrainStorm

Post#9 » Fri Dec 09, 2022 6:38 am

SuperStar wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 9:29 am Solutions:
keep leveling:
1. - we should forget the boxes,
2. - kills and bo holding should level the keep, on bo the kills should count double
3. -after a certain time 10 minutes BO could be claimed and then player controlled champion could protect
4. - who holds the flag could be ported there like in city
5. - the occupation should be cast as in city
6. - the bo leveling could also be corresponded with the kills made on that bo( e.g. landmarks would appear and the map would show the enemy from further away near the bo like a watchtower
1. I think it's better to re-invent npc-resource carriers like on live.
2. It's good idea, yes.
3. So no more sneaky capping because some guard can roflstomp you 1vs1? Or even 1vsX? If not - what's the point of him standing here? Just to buy some time? Old npc did exactly that (On live, anyway). And how far you can go away from your BO? Can you be trolled by some rdps who can shoot you from unreachable places? How it's gonna work in small-scale RvR? Large scale?
NO. I think it's bad idea.
4. Maybe.
5. Yes.
6. The idea about the watchtower can be useful. (Just look at the BO to see if there is any enemy in certain are around the bo and how much.) Not sure how this thing can influence the performance though.
SuperStar wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 9:29 am keep siege:
1. - forget the non-player lords
2. - lords should be player controlled to whoever has the most active guild members in the zone
3. -multiple lords 4 too (this can be fine tuned with population)
4. - bring back the skavens, you should get troops into the keep using ratogre, how many ratogre you have would depend on the population
5. - oil should be perma and unkillable, but its damage should be healable, toughness and resist and guard should be affected
6. - make the doors vulnerable to melee by ranged as well
7. - the doors can be walked on by the defenders under 50%
1. No, just no.
2. To motivate people to join the most populated guilds if they ever want to try this? No.
3. No.
4. Sounds good but i'm not sure if that should be primary target.
5. Sounds reasonable but the "ah, oil, whatever we just heal it" thing can happen.
6. So, we can just camp at the door if we have a zerg until the door got bored from this crap?
7. No.
SuperStar wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 9:29 am Fort siege:
1.- should be like a normal siege with oil with outer wall, rams
2. - forget non-player lords
3. - the lords should be player-controlled by whoever has the most active guild members in the zone
4. -there could be 4 lords per side (this can be fine tuned with population)
- could be timed like land and city
1. Maybe. But this won't change much.
2. No. Again. Are you want to do 1 floor/lord room aoe camping (together with lord now!) that much?
3. No.
4. No
SuperStar wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 9:29 am LotD:
1. - forget the bos,
2. - bring back the old pq's and make their completion count and generate points and other valuable rewards
3. - bring back the tombs, completing them should also earn points (of course, the tombs can be attacked while the other team is trying to get in, like the tovl)
4. - that way it would be fun for everyone in my opinion
5. - bring back the wordboss, whoever wins the land can kill for valuable rewards, but the other side can prevent it
6 - it should be run on whole weekend
1. Maybe. The question is - what can replace them? (It's not that i like the current LotD though.
2. Are they really gonna be valuable? If not...
3. Rewards? It's gonna be ignored if there is no point in this thing.
4. So, we are just farming PQ now? Until the dedicated pvp group will come to ruin your fun/farm...Unless you are one of them ofc.
5. And if i say "whatever let them kill it we are not gonna achieve anything" what will motivate the LotD loser team to fight for this?
6. If there are some thing to do - yes.

SuperStar
Posts: 388

Re: Big RvROverhaul BrainStorm

Post#10 » Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:55 am

Spoiler:
Avernus wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 6:38 am
SuperStar wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 9:29 am Solutions:
keep leveling:
1. - we should forget the boxes,
2. - kills and bo holding should level the keep, on bo the kills should count double
3. -after a certain time 10 minutes BO could be claimed and then player controlled champion could protect
4. - who holds the flag could be ported there like in city
5. - the occupation should be cast as in city
6. - the bo leveling could also be corresponded with the kills made on that bo( e.g. landmarks would appear and the map would show the enemy from further away near the bo like a watchtower
1. I think it's better to re-invent npc-resource carriers like on live.
2. It's good idea, yes.
3. So no more sneaky capping because some guard can roflstomp you 1vs1? Or even 1vsX? If not - what's the point of him standing here? Just to buy some time? Old npc did exactly that (On live, anyway). And how far you can go away from your BO? Can you be trolled by some rdps who can shoot you from unreachable places? How it's gonna work in small-scale RvR? Large scale?
NO. I think it's bad idea.
4. Maybe.
5. Yes.
6. The idea about the watchtower can be useful. (Just look at the BO to see if there is any enemy in certain are around the bo and how much.) Not sure how this thing can influence the performance though.
Thank you for your reply.

I was waiting for such comments, I am really grateful.


BO:
1. i'm in but if they lose the BO let the npc carrier disappear too.
On GW2 ther was npc carriers they were f boring if you ask me.

2. thank you.

3. very good question and i have a good answer for that. The player champion could exist within the BO scope. Also his strength would scale with the number of enemys in the BO's range, or he would be the strongest player champion next to the BO with only the strength of an average player champion at the edge of the BO's range. I'm really tired of everyone just decapping no one defending BO just running around. I want to see and do well planned attacks. I want long lasting action. Right now only new players are sitting on BO waiting for the box it's very pve. And they are being well bullied. With my idea a new player would be able to hold up a party or wb and hold BO heroically. He shouldn't have to take a lot of damage and wipe out either wb or even a premade party. But hold them long enough for the relief army to arrive. This is a great idea if your goal is to stand on BO and be protected. Full on pug players would gladly defend the BO if they had any chance, because it's much more fun than carrying boxes. My idea would give them the opportunity to survive until the relief army arrives.

4. this idea is essential for people to go and buy BO

5. thank you.

6. it would really spice up the fight. I think they can do it. There was a working idea about showing a map of WB leaders or something.
Spoiler:
Avernus wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 6:38 am
SuperStar wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 9:29 am keep siege:
1. - forget the non-player lords
2. - lords should be player controlled to whoever has the most active guild members in the zone
3. -multiple lords 4 too (this can be fine tuned with population)
4. - bring back the skavens, you should get troops into the keep using ratogre, how many ratogre you have would depend on the population
5. - oil should be perma and unkillable, but its damage should be healable, toughness and resist and guard should be affected
6. - make the doors vulnerable to melee by ranged as well
7. - the doors can be walked on by the defenders under 50%
1. No, just no.
2. To motivate people to join the most populated guilds if they ever want to try this? No.
3. No.
4. Sounds good but i'm not sure if that should be primary target.
5. Sounds reasonable but the "ah, oil, whatever we just heal it" thing can happen.
6. So, we can just camp at the door if we have a zerg until the door got bored from this crap?
7. No.
KEEP
1. i don't understand why you have to spend 10 minutes beating an npc that doesn't have the slightest challenge in a pvp game. Can you explain it to me please?

2. the most populous and active in the game time that suits you. I would like to see large guilds yes, that would be the goal. AND close cooperation and endless action between big guilds.

3. player controlled lords are great fun. Please explain to me why I don't like the idea? We could kill Felix and Gotrek. Do we need more glory than that?

4. Thank you. I think it's essential that they throw up the sieges.

5. Yeah it should be well balanced to be strong but now impossible to heal out.

6.-7. Sieges are boring especially after 50% because they don't come out of the castle anymore. Perma oil would give the defenders an advantage and would be great fun at the gate. Only the strongest parties could be under the oil and hit the door because of the perma oil and the fact that the defenders can jump in and out and wound you at any time.

7. Could you elaborate, please? Sieges are very boring especially after 50%.
Spoiler:
Avernus wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 6:38 am
SuperStar wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 9:29 am Fort siege:
1.- should be like a normal siege with oil with outer wall, rams
2. - forget non-player lords
3. - the lords should be player-controlled by whoever has the most active guild members in the zone
4. -there could be 4 lords per side (this can be fine tuned with population)
- could be timed like land and city
1. Maybe. But this won't change much.
2. No. Again. Are you want to do 1 floor/lord room aoe camping (together with lord now!) that much?
3. No.
4. No
Forts:
Hitting NPCs is very boring. Lords shouldn't have crazy damage and wipe wb. But I want more than to punch them in the back for 10 minutes. They could be scaled to how strong they are in which room, or how strong they should be when on top of each other.
I'm really curious why you don't want it that bad. I would like you to explain it better so I can understand.

Spoiler:
Avernus wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 6:38 am
SuperStar wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 9:29 am LotD:
1. - forget the bos,
2. - bring back the old pq's and make their completion count and generate points and other valuable rewards
3. - bring back the tombs, completing them should also earn points (of course, the tombs can be attacked while the other team is trying to get in, like the tovl)
4. - that way it would be fun for everyone in my opinion
5. - bring back the wordboss, whoever wins the land can kill for valuable rewards, but the other side can prevent it
6 - it should be run on whole weekend
1. Maybe. The question is - what can replace them? (It's not that i like the current LotD though.
2. Are they really gonna be valuable? If not...
3. Rewards? It's gonna be ignored if there is no point in this thing.
4. So, we are just farming PQ now? Until the dedicated pvp group will come to ruin your fun/farm...Unless you are one of them ofc.
5. And if i say "whatever let them kill it we are not gonna achieve anything" what will motivate the LotD loser team to fight for this?
6. If there are some thing to do - yes.
LotD:

1. would be the old public quests instead and the tombs I explained in 2.-3.
2. everyone likes cosmetic rewards for example.
3. you could bring back the old pocket items with little chance
4. exactly. Much better than running from bo to bo and killing stupid mobs in my opinion. Considering it would take all weekend anyone who likes to do public quests should be able to find a suitable time.
5. The enjoyment and renown.
6. Considering the public quests for mounds and wordboss I think there would be something for everyone to do.

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