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RvR Incentive for under populated side

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mynban
Posts: 204

RvR Incentive for under populated side

Post#1 » Sun Jan 29, 2023 9:21 pm

Returning player here, I have been playing a few weeks now and I saw many changes, but one thing stayed the same: PvDoor nature of lakes. To put it simply there is no incentive to go to lakes when the tide is against your faction.

Why AAO does NOT work as an incentive?
Simple, if your group is outnumbered and you will be wiped before you can take down any enemy that bonus means nothing. %150 of zero is still zero.

Because of that the only thing AAO incentives is roaming parties, that actively avoid keeps and objectives with no intention of contributing to war effort, where their only purpose is finding someone trying to run to zerg for easy kills. As fun as it may be, roaming parties do not contribute to keep defense in the slightest.

Player behaviors when there is AAO
  • Roaming parties
that just farm strays, avoiding actual battles that matter for keep defense
  • XRealmers
that jumps to other side for easy win
  • People choosing not to go to lakes
and either going afk in chat or doing SCs instead

What is the desirable behavior to incentivize?
For above groups to actually head to BOs and Keep at lakes when their side has AAO bonus.

SUGGESTION
Make AAO based passive RR ticking on BOs when ram is not up, and at Keep when ram is up, so that people will (through their selfish interests) will do what is good for the realm and head to BOs/Keep.
Last edited by mynban on Sun Jan 29, 2023 10:41 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Aluviya
Posts: 128

Re: RvR Incentive for under populated side

Post#2 » Sun Jan 29, 2023 10:12 pm

I do agree on the problems you've stated. From my current POV the solution you suggested might open new problems such as motivating to semi AFK in Keeps and BO's and not actively contributing while providing an AAO disadvantage to those that want to fight. (Correct me if I got your idea the wrong way)

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mynban
Posts: 204

Re: RvR Incentive for under populated side

Post#3 » Sun Jan 29, 2023 10:28 pm

Aluviya wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 10:12 pm I do agree on the problems you've stated. From my current POV the solution you suggested might open new problems such as motivating to semi AFK in Keeps and BO's and not actively contributing while providing an AAO disadvantage to those that want to fight. (Correct me if I got your idea the wrong way)
I think you would be right if RR tick was not AAO based, and even then it will still be true for first few people arriving for free afk RR ticks. However, I was thinking more along the lines of system curves.

Think of it as a simulation with data units rather than actual players, where these data units are scripted to act in their own best interest to maximize their RR gain. When there is AAO bonus, people will head to Keep to afk for free RR. But because that RR tick is AAO based, as more people arriving to do the same, the RR they would get will minimize and normalize. Now AFKing will not be generating the RR it would anymore and it will be in their best interest to actually fight along the rest of the crowd in Keep. Since they are already there, they are more likely to actually fight.

I have seen it many times, ragtags that gathered to be wiped at 3rd floor in hopes of some slight RR; actually going down along with an organized WB and properly hold bottom. All they need was being there in the first place and seeing that their own best interest lies aligned with doing realm benefiting action.

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Vaul
Posts: 333

Re: RvR Incentive for under populated side

Post#4 » Sun Jan 29, 2023 11:35 pm

Tis a good idea! Worth considering further.
Deadlakes (Marauder)
Shoreditch (Zealot)
Vhannos (Chosen)

Duukar
Posts: 302

Re: RvR Incentive for under populated side

Post#5 » Mon Jan 30, 2023 1:33 am

Sounds good to me.

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Fallenkezef
Posts: 1483

Re: RvR Incentive for under populated side

Post#6 » Mon Jan 30, 2023 6:30 am

As a casual player I must admit I go to SC's, PvE questing or just log off if the lake is inbalanced. As mentioned, especialy for casuals, AAO is a meaningless buff when the pug gets farmed by the Destro/Order mega-blob.

I know people will reply with the usual "form a premade". But how does that really benefit? Even the premades just avoid the enemy blobs and hoover small groups when the zone is badly outnumbered.

AAO does need to work differently to encourage playing.
Alea iacta est

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Cyrylius
Posts: 401

Re: RvR Incentive for under populated side

Post#7 » Mon Jan 30, 2023 1:58 pm

Sounds like it will be loads of fun to abuse.
RoR doesnt deserve being taken seriously.

Avernus
Posts: 321

Re: RvR Incentive for under populated side

Post#8 » Mon Jan 30, 2023 2:03 pm

Aluviya wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 10:12 pm I do agree on the problems you've stated. From my current POV the solution you suggested might open new problems such as motivating to semi AFK in Keeps and BO's and not actively contributing while providing an AAO disadvantage to those that want to fight. (Correct me if I got your idea the wrong way)
Nope, you got this completely right.

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Avernus
Posts: 321

Re: RvR Incentive for under populated side

Post#9 » Mon Jan 30, 2023 2:08 pm

Fallenkezef wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 6:30 am As a casual player I must admit I go to SC's, PvE questing or just log off if the lake is inbalanced. As mentioned, especialy for casuals, AAO is a meaningless buff when the pug gets farmed by the Destro/Order mega-blob.

I know people will reply with the usual "form a premade". But how does that really benefit? Even the premades just avoid the enemy blobs and hoover small groups when the zone is badly outnumbered.

AAO does need to work differently to encourage playing.
AAO isn't supposed to let you win. If you are heavily outnumbered - you are bound to lose and its completely reasonable. It's purpose is to reward resistance in this situation (successful resistance, to be precise - kills, bo, bags). You should not be rewarded for doing a whole lot of nothing. But yes, this bonus could be a little more rewarding.

shrredhn
Posts: 37

Re: RvR Incentive for under populated side

Post#10 » Mon Jan 30, 2023 2:23 pm

Avernus wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 2:08 pm
Fallenkezef wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 6:30 am As a casual player I must admit I go to SC's, PvE questing or just log off if the lake is inbalanced. As mentioned, especialy for casuals, AAO is a meaningless buff when the pug gets farmed by the Destro/Order mega-blob.

I know people will reply with the usual "form a premade". But how does that really benefit? Even the premades just avoid the enemy blobs and hoover small groups when the zone is badly outnumbered.

AAO does need to work differently to encourage playing.
AAO isn't supposed to let you win. If you are heavily outnumbered - you are bound to lose and its completely reasonable. It's purpose is to reward resistance in this situation (successful resistance, to be precise - kills, bo, bags). You should not be rewarded for doing a whole lot of nothing. But yes, this bonus could be a LOT more rewarding.
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