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RvR Incentive for under populated side

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rejndjer
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Re: RvR Incentive for under populated side

Post#11 » Mon Jan 30, 2023 2:42 pm

Avernus wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 2:08 pm
Fallenkezef wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 6:30 am As a casual player I must admit I go to SC's, PvE questing or just log off if the lake is inbalanced. As mentioned, especialy for casuals, AAO is a meaningless buff when the pug gets farmed by the Destro/Order mega-blob.

I know people will reply with the usual "form a premade". But how does that really benefit? Even the premades just avoid the enemy blobs and hoover small groups when the zone is badly outnumbered.

AAO does need to work differently to encourage playing.
AAO isn't supposed to let you win. If you are heavily outnumbered - you are bound to lose and its completely reasonable. It's purpose is to reward resistance in this situation (successful resistance, to be precise - kills, bo, bags). You should not be rewarded for doing a whole lot of nothing. But yes, this bonus could be a little more rewarding.
you dont get more bags nor contribution from aao. lol?

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Scottx125
Posts: 965

Re: RvR Incentive for under populated side

Post#12 » Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:07 am

The problem isn't the reward. It's the balance. People log off if they see 40-60 server balance or refuse to take part in a defense when 48 Destro are Vs 12 order (or visa versa) because it's pointless. You're not gonna get that AAO reward because you'll be dead. Outnumbering realms need localised LOTD style AAO. Reducing damage and healing if you outnumber the enemy by up to 50% if the local group within 100ft outnumber the enemy by double their number. Or replace the AOE cap which is at 24 back to 9 or whatever it was to reduce blob effectiveness. Zerging is the problem, not the reward. People will only participate if they have a decent chance of a reward/winning. If it's a forgon conclusion or if the effort required to win would be massive, why would they participate?
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Avernus
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Re: RvR Incentive for under populated side

Post#13 » Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:15 am

Scottx125 wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:07 am The problem isn't the reward. It's the balance. People log off if they see 40-60 server balance or refuse to take part in a defense when 48 Destro are Vs 12 order (or visa versa) because it's pointless. You're not gonna get that AAO reward because you'll be dead. Outnumbering realms need localised LOTD style AAO. Reducing damage and healing if you outnumber the enemy by up to 50% if the local group within 100ft outnumber the enemy by double their number. Or replace the AOE cap which is at 24 back to 9 or whatever it was to reduce blob effectiveness. Zerging is the problem, not the reward. People will only participate if they have a decent chance of a reward/winning. If it's a forgon conclusion or if the effort required to win would be massive, why would they participate?
Yeah, i've seen a crappy idea like that, and i can say - it's completely broken. Wanna see something like 1 party holding a wb because they can tank/outheal all your damage while 1-2 shotting anyone? No, ty. And don't even try to balance this - you can't - like, for example, healing while dealing damage will be completely OP.

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Fallenkezef
Posts: 1483

Re: RvR Incentive for under populated side

Post#14 » Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:34 am

Avernus wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:15 am
Scottx125 wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:07 am The problem isn't the reward. It's the balance. People log off if they see 40-60 server balance or refuse to take part in a defense when 48 Destro are Vs 12 order (or visa versa) because it's pointless. You're not gonna get that AAO reward because you'll be dead. Outnumbering realms need localised LOTD style AAO. Reducing damage and healing if you outnumber the enemy by up to 50% if the local group within 100ft outnumber the enemy by double their number. Or replace the AOE cap which is at 24 back to 9 or whatever it was to reduce blob effectiveness. Zerging is the problem, not the reward. People will only participate if they have a decent chance of a reward/winning. If it's a forgon conclusion or if the effort required to win would be massive, why would they participate?
Yeah, i've seen a crappy idea like that, and i can say - it's completely broken. Wanna see something like 1 party holding a wb because they can tank/outheal all your damage while 1-2 shotting anyone? No, ty. And don't even try to balance this - you can't - like, for example, healing while dealing damage will be completely OP.
Especialy if that group is a premade bunch of RR80's+ with BiS
Alea iacta est

Avernus
Posts: 321

Re: RvR Incentive for under populated side

Post#15 » Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:36 am

Fallenkezef wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:34 am
Avernus wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:15 am
Scottx125 wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:07 am The problem isn't the reward. It's the balance. People log off if they see 40-60 server balance or refuse to take part in a defense when 48 Destro are Vs 12 order (or visa versa) because it's pointless. You're not gonna get that AAO reward because you'll be dead. Outnumbering realms need localised LOTD style AAO. Reducing damage and healing if you outnumber the enemy by up to 50% if the local group within 100ft outnumber the enemy by double their number. Or replace the AOE cap which is at 24 back to 9 or whatever it was to reduce blob effectiveness. Zerging is the problem, not the reward. People will only participate if they have a decent chance of a reward/winning. If it's a forgon conclusion or if the effort required to win would be massive, why would they participate?
Yeah, i've seen a crappy idea like that, and i can say - it's completely broken. Wanna see something like 1 party holding a wb because they can tank/outheal all your damage while 1-2 shotting anyone? No, ty. And don't even try to balance this - you can't - like, for example, healing while dealing damage will be completely OP.
Especialy if that group is a premade bunch of RR80's+ with BiS
Ofc they are.

rejndjer
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Posts: 431

Re: RvR Incentive for under populated side

Post#16 » Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:55 am

oh and reduce aoe cap from 24 to 9 so zerg blobs can be even more powerful :laughing:

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Sinisterror
Posts: 838

Re: RvR Incentive for under populated side

Post#17 » Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:45 am

rejndjer wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:55 am oh and reduce aoe cap from 24 to 9 so zerg blobs can be even more powerful :laughing:
Its funny to me people actually think reducing aoe cap back to 9 instead of 24 would increase Zerging and making it more effective. How long have you played Warhammer online? 9 cap means that lets say 24v48. 8 Tanks of smaller party can kite and soak up the dmg, because it takes 3 dps to hit more players than 24 when cap is 9 but when cap is 24 it takes only 1dps so stacking dmg will always win because tanks and healers are designed to work within 6-9max AND healing/defense in RoR is much higher than Live. And no Ae HD... I still cant grasp why so core thing is removed. Same with 24 aoe cap and 1.5Gcd. Gcd in Live was 1.15-1.5s but you had to time it or 1.5s was forced if you pressed too early or late. Lose AP proc betweeen casts but faster dmg.

So much of RoR Changes are detrimental imo. Edit; Forgot to say that if Aoe cap is changed back to 9 then give Aoe Hd back to Rp/Ze/Dok. Add 12.5% + dps to wpns along with procs of Old T4-epic quest Wpns/Lostvale/63-66dps "Sovereign" Wpns and make ICD of all Procs damaging or healing 0.5s instead of 1-2s. All tanks had this proc on 2H "10% on hit to taunt target" WP got 2h with +12% Critical dmg/+9 Crit. Ze/Magus/Rp and more that i dont remember get "10% On hit to increase cast times by 50% for 10s"

More Powerful CC returned like Ch/Kotb 45ft 6s stagger, down from 9s. Old Engi/Magus 75Ft pull even from keep doors, some people hate the pulls but when both realms have it from "Mirror" classes no crying. It is also good ALWAYS to have as little safe spaces as possible. 9 Aoe cap without ICD in procs and returned Crit amounts back,Remove +2 From sove etc and put it on anni/merce/ruin and as 5th bonus so lowbies get an edge and 4th bonus would be Crit again. Mid-Air Pounce back with delayed critical dmg.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5Zw4FUPacc No Safe Spaces. Pets NEED all grp buffs,heals and benefits except Guard. Pots Morales Detaunts taunts etc off GCD. There is other things along 9 aoe cap that needs to happen it alone is not magic cure but done right with small changes to these things and a bit more. Rvr changes Like Bo's need to matter,no carrying resources but r-click resource carrier on Bo to it return them. Keeps would be random not same and 30 Sec Flag Capture instead of Keep Lord.

Remove ALL punishments on renown like there is now and revert renown nerf. Add Super rare Drop chance in PvP of War Chest(2500) War Crests, got 2 of these only in Live, but it was BEST.
Last edited by Sinisterror on Tue Jan 31, 2023 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"To clarify, me asking to developers to go test their own changes is not sign of toxicity or anger, but a sign of hope that the people punching in the numbers remain aware of potential consequences and test their own changes"-Teefz

rejndjer
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Posts: 431

Re: RvR Incentive for under populated side

Post#18 » Tue Jan 31, 2023 11:54 am

Sinisterror wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:45 am
rejndjer wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:55 am oh and reduce aoe cap from 24 to 9 so zerg blobs can be even more powerful :laughing:
Its funny to me people actually think reducing aoe cap back to 9 instead of 24 would increase Zerging and making it more effective. How long have you played Warhammer online? 9 cap means that lets say 24v48. 8 Tanks of smaller party can kite and soak up the dmg, because it takes 3 dps to hit more players than 24 when cap is 9 but when cap is 24 it takes only 1dps so stacking dmg will always win because tanks and healers are designed to work within 6-9max AND healing/defense in RoR is much higher than Live. And no Ae HD... I still cant grasp why so core thing is removed. Same with 24 aoe cap and 1.5Gcd. Gcd in Live was 1.15-1.5s but you had to time it or 1.5s was forced if you pressed too early or late. Lose AP proc betweeen casts but faster dmg.

So much of RoR Changes are detrimental imo.
i played live, i dont remember if limit was 9 or 24 then. but i really hope they bring back limit to 9 here, so i can see what excuse will be next when people continue to blob zerg even more.

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Scottx125
Posts: 965

Re: RvR Incentive for under populated side

Post#19 » Tue Jan 31, 2023 1:38 pm

Fallenkezef wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:34 am
Avernus wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:15 am
Scottx125 wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:07 am The problem isn't the reward. It's the balance. People log off if they see 40-60 server balance or refuse to take part in a defense when 48 Destro are Vs 12 order (or visa versa) because it's pointless. You're not gonna get that AAO reward because you'll be dead. Outnumbering realms need localised LOTD style AAO. Reducing damage and healing if you outnumber the enemy by up to 50% if the local group within 100ft outnumber the enemy by double their number. Or replace the AOE cap which is at 24 back to 9 or whatever it was to reduce blob effectiveness. Zerging is the problem, not the reward. People will only participate if they have a decent chance of a reward/winning. If it's a forgon conclusion or if the effort required to win would be massive, why would they participate?
Yeah, i've seen a crappy idea like that, and i can say - it's completely broken. Wanna see something like 1 party holding a wb because they can tank/outheal all your damage while 1-2 shotting anyone? No, ty. And don't even try to balance this - you can't - like, for example, healing while dealing damage will be completely OP.
Especialy if that group is a premade bunch of RR80's+ with BiS
Tell that to DPS healers. And if the only reason that it's vrap is that you don't want to be held up by a 12 man as a zerging 48 man. You need a better answer. Or provide a solution to discourage zerging. My solution makes zerging directly weaker up to a point. But it's not just needed to discourage zerging, players need to be able to split action between zones without one side knowing in 5 minutes and zerging over. So SoR should also go imo.
Spoiler:
Seiigfrid RR 8X WP | Arthasus RR 7X KOTBS | Zalthazar RR 5X BW
Image
For the Gif in it's full glory:
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Avernus
Posts: 321

Re: RvR Incentive for under populated side

Post#20 » Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:48 pm

Scottx125 wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 1:38 pm Tell that to DPS healers. And if the only reason that it's vrap is that you don't want to be held up by a 12 man as a zerging 48 man. You need a better answer. Or provide a solution to discourage zerging. My solution makes zerging directly weaker up to a point. But it's not just needed to discourage zerging, players need to be able to split action between zones without one side knowing in 5 minutes and zerging over. So SoR should also go imo.
Did you see the thing you are suggesting being used in any mmorpg? I did. It was disgusting.

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