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Fixing Fundamental Reward Problem

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Caduceus
Posts: 653

Fixing Fundamental Reward Problem

Post#1 » Sun Mar 12, 2023 8:06 am

Hello all,


Return of Reckoning suffers from a fundamental problem with its reward system, which I believe is one of the root causes to many of the issues that are seen in the late game.

In short, farming low RR pugs yields more rewards than fighting (and even winning) against strong opposition.


15 minutes of sweat against another premade may only yield a fraction of the renown you would get when farming some chanceless pugs.

This is nonsensical, and no one should be surprised that this strange situation results in player behavior that many see as undesirable and contrary to the spirit of the game.


This is also one of the reasons why a lot of high-level competitive play in RoR is impopular.


A reward system should encourage desired player behavior, and not undermine it.


My first suggestion to fix this issue is to revamp the rewards for killing players. The contrast between killing high and low renown players should be increased to better reflect the challenge players are facing.

- Rewards for killing high renown rank players should be dramatically increased.
- Rewards for killing low renown players should be somewhat lowered.
- Renown bloat should be increased, so that killing players who are on a killing spree yields even more rewards.
- Perhaps also a modifier should be added to players in groups and warbands to further reflect the difficulty of killing them.


The end result should be that players who seek out challenging opposition are rewarded greatly for this, assuming they achieve at least some success.


Thanks for reading,

- Caduceus
"I watched a snail crawl along the edge of a straight razor. That's my dream; that's my nightmare. Crawling, slithering, along the edge of a straight razor... and surviving." - Colonel Walter E. Kurtz

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Caduceus
Posts: 653

Re: Fixing Fundamental Reward Problem

Post#2 » Fri Mar 17, 2023 10:12 am

Bump
"I watched a snail crawl along the edge of a straight razor. That's my dream; that's my nightmare. Crawling, slithering, along the edge of a straight razor... and surviving." - Colonel Walter E. Kurtz

Garamore
Posts: 397

Re: Fixing Fundamental Reward Problem

Post#3 » Fri Mar 17, 2023 10:29 am

Top end play doesnt care about rps as you are all ready rr80 and bis.
Garamore - Chosen Garamar - Marauder Garachop - Choppa Garamor - Slayer

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inoeth
Suspended
Posts: 513

Re: Fixing Fundamental Reward Problem

Post#4 » Fri Mar 17, 2023 3:33 pm

replace reknown with crest

Everdin
Posts: 555

Re: Fixing Fundamental Reward Problem

Post#5 » Fri Mar 17, 2023 3:46 pm

If you haven't got roasted in a thread for 5 days it is not worth to bump it, maybe the idea was just...not popular
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“A man can fail many times, but he isn't a failure until he begins to blame somebody else.”

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Phantasm
Posts: 674

Re: Fixing Fundamental Reward Problem

Post#6 » Fri Mar 17, 2023 5:27 pm

Truth is 80+ premades dont need any incentive to play. They play for fun and braggs. No need renown, crests etc. I wonder did you think other way around - boost dramatically crests or/and renown when you fight, kill, or even win as 80 below vs those premades. Can you imagine how great motivation it was?

Caduceus
Posts: 653

Re: Fixing Fundamental Reward Problem

Post#7 » Fri Mar 17, 2023 6:56 pm

This is all a really elaborate way of avoiding the obvious;

The fact that farming pugs yields more rewards than close fights between strong teams is clearly providing the wrong incentives to players.

There's no reason why it should be like this. It's obviously broken.

I don't know why people are bothering to throw up excuses. Anyone with a shred of sense can look at this and understand it's problematic.
"I watched a snail crawl along the edge of a straight razor. That's my dream; that's my nightmare. Crawling, slithering, along the edge of a straight razor... and surviving." - Colonel Walter E. Kurtz

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Tanski
Posts: 230

Re: Fixing Fundamental Reward Problem

Post#8 » Fri Mar 17, 2023 7:38 pm

Caduceus wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 6:56 pm This is all a really elaborate way of avoiding the obvious;

The fact that farming pugs yields more rewards than close fights between strong teams is clearly providing the wrong incentives to players.

There's no reason why it should be like this. It's obviously broken.

I don't know why people are bothering to throw up excuses. Anyone with a shred of sense can look at this and understand it's problematic.
The game has a lot of problems but this wont fix anything. Scenario and City matchmaking needs an overhaul to feel more rewarding, right now its completely pug v premade or double premade vs one 6, removing duo que completely killed discordant scs in NA, there is like one competitive city a month, its just bad.
75+ BG
80 Choppa/slyer
80 wl
70 + sm
70 bw/sorc
80 wh, we
60 sham/am

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nocturnalguest
Posts: 490

Re: Fixing Fundamental Reward Problem

Post#9 » Fri Mar 17, 2023 7:55 pm

Caduceus wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 6:56 pm This is all a really elaborate way of avoiding the obvious;

The fact that farming pugs yields more rewards than close fights between strong teams is clearly providing the wrong incentives to players.

There's no reason why it should be like this. It's obviously broken.

I don't know why people are bothering to throw up excuses. Anyone with a shred of sense can look at this and understand it's problematic.
While i do agree with your main claim, you can reach over 20k RR per warfront sc farming like no tommorow, while if there is no kill farm the gains are close to none existent. But i cant suggest anything that passes my inner checks of logic and sanity. Yes, stomping is most rewarding in regards to RR/crests while actually real competetive fights are not. What and how to do to decrease first and increase second keeping up balance and without flaws i dont know.

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Sinisterror
Posts: 838

Re: Fixing Fundamental Reward Problem

Post#10 » Wed Mar 29, 2023 10:08 am

Caduceus wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 6:56 pm This is all a really elaborate way of avoiding the obvious;

The fact that farming pugs yields more rewards than close fights between strong teams is clearly providing the wrong incentives to players.

There's no reason why it should be like this. It's obviously broken.

I don't know why people are bothering to throw up excuses. Anyone with a shred of sense can look at this and understand it's problematic.
Agreed. Also Rewards you get from Bags need to be changed. Personalized loot system is ok for Bags that Only give War Crests. But in Fortress and City Siege/Defense Bags should not be personalized and Rewards In Goldbags should be Setgear Piece. If you Siege and win you would get Offensive Set Item. If you have Succesful Defense it should reward Defensive Set item.

Same would go for Purple/Blue bags and rewards change depending is it SIege Or Defence. In Fortress/City Siege Purple bags should give new Wpns with Procs. In Fort Defence Purplebag Rewards could be Cloak with 700 Armour Proc for 6 seconds,stacks with armour pot/buff. Back in 2008 Fortress Defence Cloak like this existed, all classes could wear it. Could also be Cloak with 300 Absorb proc etc etc=) In Fortress killing rr60+ would have a Chance to Drop Inva/Vict/Triumph Gloves and Boots, BoP. In City Killing rr60+ you could get OffSove/Defsove/Warlord gloves and boots, BoP.

Blue Bags should drop GOOD Boe items, Many kinds of Jewelries,Cloaks and belts with talisman slots and good stats but no procs. You cant buy any of the gear you get from SIege or Defense Purple/Blue bags with Warcrests from vendors. Gear sets are still buyable with Warcrests.

Obviously Timed City Siege should be removed, but with rewards that you could only get Sieging or Defending Fortress and City and rewards vary depending are you Attacking or Defending would make HUGE DIfference how many people will do these contents.
"To clarify, me asking to developers to go test their own changes is not sign of toxicity or anger, but a sign of hope that the people punching in the numbers remain aware of potential consequences and test their own changes"-Teefz

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