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Remove 160 stat tactics

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Structured class balance suggestions belong in the Balance Proposal subforum. Class-related discussion in this section are considered as ongoing debates and ARE NOT reviewed for balance changes.
bw10
Posts: 264

Remove 160 stat tactics

Post#1 » Thu Feb 29, 2024 4:47 pm

Either bake them into natural stat growth or remove them completely. The existance of +160 stat tactics leaves most classes with 3 tactic slots to play around. Build / tactic diversity should be encouraged. There are enough "mandatory" tactics as it is.

I look at my 32 choppa with 160 str tactic, 120 ws/120 str tactic and a (orc exclusive) 160 wounds tactic (which i think would be a cool exception for a racial tactic) and weep.

Raw stats are too good in most cases to give up for more fun/gimmicky tactics (my fav is smoldering embers on bw).

Things like 160 dps mainstat and 160 toughness tactic for tanks end up effectively cancelling out each other anyway.

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Akalukz
Posts: 1588

Re: Remove 160 stat tactics

Post#2 » Thu Feb 29, 2024 4:57 pm

Should remove them, at minimum should not allow 160 and the 120/120 tactics at the same time.
-= Agony =-

Sulorie
Posts: 7222

Re: Remove 160 stat tactics

Post#3 » Thu Feb 29, 2024 6:26 pm

Using no 160 stat tactic is no option?
Dying is no option.

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Zizzelfizz
Posts: 189
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Re: Remove 160 stat tactics

Post#4 » Thu Feb 29, 2024 7:01 pm

If you don't like it, don't use it, but don't tell other people what tactics they use.
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bw10
Posts: 264

Re: Remove 160 stat tactics

Post#5 » Fri Mar 01, 2024 12:03 am

Zizzelfizz wrote: Thu Feb 29, 2024 7:01 pm If you don't like it, don't use it, but don't tell other people what tactics they use.
Its genuinely sad seeing someone unable to even try to imagine the bigger picture lol. not to mention that the very first sentence of the original post was a suggestion to add 160 stat tactic into natural stat growth during leveling. you didnt even read that
Sulorie wrote: Thu Feb 29, 2024 6:26 pm Using no 160 stat tactic is no option?
Its gimping yourself. They have too much value over other tactics

Rotgut
Posts: 103

Re: Remove 160 stat tactics

Post#6 » Fri Mar 01, 2024 1:44 am

That sounds like A LOT of work for the Balance Team, ngl. If you give every class a 160 stats buff and another tactic slot you'll have to rethink all other tactics.

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Repulsion
Posts: 70

Re: Remove 160 stat tactics

Post#7 » Fri Mar 01, 2024 4:47 am

Zizzelfizz wrote: Thu Feb 29, 2024 7:01 pm If you don't like it, don't use it, but don't tell other people what tactics they use.
"We should maybe think if changing x in y way is good"
"UuUuH If YoU DoN'T LiKe *x* DoN'T UsE iT, SwEeTiE"

What a useless post in a sea of useless posts; do you think you added anything to the discussion with that take?
This is a good suggestion imo. With that said, I wouldn't be so happy if I had to re-balance and think through the ripple effect it'd have on the greater scope of game balance but noone really likes slotting these necessary statstick tactics.
I'd reckon a few classes would shoot WAY UP in fun and interest of interactions with a free tactic slot.

dshdf
Posts: 90

Re: Remove 160 stat tactics

Post#8 » Fri Mar 01, 2024 6:01 am

Tbh, simply moving 160 mainstat tactics into the stat growth would create insane balance issues with offspecs.
Eg should wp get only willpower or both will and str? msh/asw? Sham/am? 2h tanks?
If they dont get both - it would create insane stat disparity in favor of "main" spec classes, if they will - vice versa

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Ysaran
Posts: 1240

Re: Remove 160 stat tactics

Post#9 » Fri Mar 01, 2024 7:02 am

dshdf wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2024 6:01 am Tbh, simply moving 160 mainstat tactics into the stat growth would create insane balance issues with offspecs.
Eg should wp get only willpower or both will and str? msh/asw? Sham/am? 2h tanks?
If they dont get both - it would create insane stat disparity in favor of "main" spec classes, if they will - vice versa
Yeah, healers don't even slot the tactic. Most heals just scale so bad that is not worth it
Zputadenti

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szejoza
Posts: 748

Re: Remove 160 stat tactics

Post#10 » Fri Mar 01, 2024 7:12 am

dshdf wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2024 6:01 am Tbh, simply moving 160 mainstat tactics into the stat growth would create insane balance issues with offspecs.
Eg should wp get only willpower or both will and str? msh/asw? Sham/am? 2h tanks?
If they dont get both - it would create insane stat disparity in favor of "main" spec classes, if they will - vice versa
Tying it with masteries could be nice :v e.g. tying strength with wrath and willpower with salvation and mix of wp/str(or maybe just toughness?) on grace specs for warrior priest

Iirc max sov 70+RR player gets 31 mastery points to spend to if we give 10points of stat per mastery a player can get a nice fat 310 stats
The thing is some classes got access to more than one stat tactic while others got access to only one. For example choppa can use 3 tactics to get 560 stats (one at the cost of toughness). So tying stats growth might look like a nerf as toptier level player would only get 310stats BUT opens up possibilities of using other tactics so it evens itself and make builds more interesting (so in the end I'd say it's a buff instead of a nerf).

10 points per mastery is just an idea, might use whatever other value for the sake of balancing things, doesnt need to be 10points per point but might be growing e.g. every mastery spent gives adds extra 2 stats to the previous value so: mastery 1=2stats, mastery 2=4, mastery 3=6 (which by now gives 12 stats total)... if we continue up to 15 points available in the tree we land at 240 stats boost in the tree (but losing access to some of the skill goodies that are often tied to other trees so players need to consider stats-skills values again and what they need most)
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