Mind killer cleanese are you serious?

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Mergrim
Posts: 250

Mind killer cleanese are you serious?

Post#1 » Sat May 11, 2024 9:06 am

Are you changing how cleansing works and leaving the mind killer BG as it is?

Mind Killer- no CD, stack 3 times, 50% outgoin heal debuff with tactic. Almost imposible to cleanse.

Meanwhile IB Inspiring Attack-5sec cd, not stack, 50% outgoin heal debuff with tactic.
How long has this situation existed?
You're just hammering another nail into the coffin. One step forward and 10 back.

The cleanse should cleanse the entire stack of mind killer.

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Sinisterror
Posts: 839

Re: Mind killer cleanese are you serious?

Post#2 » Sat May 11, 2024 10:39 am

Yeah BG is a bit too much i mean just look at the skills they get when they are lvl 40. Only 5s Kd in the game. Longest Punt in the game and automatic CD halved when using 2h. Aoe 10% parry 10% Block reducer 15s duration and 10s cd. 10% Critical hits increased aoe as well. Can be on all the time. CD reducer to destro? Well, i dont know who thought this belongs to BG, or even destro all. If it does it should be Waaagh?! and it shouldnt require tactic like BG does not.

Switch THC usable with shield and 240 double WS buff and 1.4.8. Not in da face 9pts brawler with 4s Immunity for all CC to whole grp. Make Blorc Kd Core, or make the absorb core at least and put KD on 5pts.
"To clarify, me asking to developers to go test their own changes is not sign of toxicity or anger, but a sign of hope that the people punching in the numbers remain aware of potential consequences and test their own changes"-Teefz

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Omegus
Posts: 1443

Re: Mind killer cleanese are you serious?

Post#3 » Sat May 11, 2024 11:16 am

Off topic in the first reply. Well done.

I was under the impression that cleanse always removed an entire stack for things like mind killer, rend (Mara), etc. Does it not do that in general or is Mind Killer just bugger. Has OP actually tested to confirm how cleanse works for all stacking debuffs?
Zomega: RR8x Zealot

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Lisutaris
Posts: 72

Re: Mind killer cleanese are you serious?

Post#4 » Sat May 11, 2024 11:22 am

There are many skills which are not mirrored or perfectly balanced as both factions do not have access to the same abilities.
It has to be mentioned that the 5s stun has to be after a block while using a shield, it's not just on demand and can't be used as 2handed.
Punt CD halved while 2handed isn't BG exclusive if you check other tanks.
10% critical hits incresed on enemy is only possible when playing 2handed, it has to land to apply the debuff and it's a cone attack. (aoe yes but not pbaoe with 360 radius or so)
Long story short, only 50% of that list will be available, depending on playing 2h or snb.

I have no idea if it would be fair to balance if the mind killer thing get's changed (and if its really working like that), a lot of classes got some "nasty" stuff in their toolkit. I would recommend to mention it in the suggestions post for balance changes. It has to be looked at with all the other changes they are planning to make. In the bigger picture. Maybe it will get tuned down, maybe bufffed, we will see.
~~ Guildleader of Entropy and Chaos ~~

Rhyshara - DoK || Rhykera - Sorc || Rhyleth - BG || Sharaye - WE
Destro only <3

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Mergrim
Posts: 250

Re: Mind killer cleanese are you serious?

Post#5 » Sat May 11, 2024 12:52 pm

Omegus wrote: Sat May 11, 2024 11:16 am Off topic in the first reply. Well done.

I was under the impression that cleanse always removed an entire stack for things like mind killer, rend (Mara), etc. Does it not do that in general or is Mind Killer just bugger. Has OP actually tested to confirm how cleanse works for all stacking debuffs?
It's sad that people are surprised that cleanse removed all mind killer debuffs before. Yea i have tested...there is no logic in this skill now. 3stack no cd vs 5sec cleanse when you had a lot other dots to clenese...1smart bg and whole enemy team is -50% heal 80-90% time.Was in sc with Am that had outgoin heal debuff 95% uptime on him.
This is so broken and should be instantly fixed, not in balance patch in future...

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Omegus
Posts: 1443

Re: Mind killer cleanese are you serious?

Post#6 » Sat May 11, 2024 2:27 pm

Mergrim wrote: Sat May 11, 2024 12:52 pm
Omegus wrote: Sat May 11, 2024 11:16 am Off topic in the first reply. Well done.

I was under the impression that cleanse always removed an entire stack for things like mind killer, rend (Mara), etc. Does it not do that in general or is Mind Killer just bugger. Has OP actually tested to confirm how cleanse works for all stacking debuffs?
It's sad that people are surprised that cleanse removed all mind killer debuffs before. Yea i have tested...there is no logic in this skill now. 3stack no cd vs 5sec cleanse when you had a lot other dots to clenese...1smart bg and whole enemy team is -50% heal 80-90% time.Was in sc with Am that had outgoin heal debuff 95% uptime on him.
This is so broken and should be instantly fixed, not in balance patch in future...
Is Mind Killer the only stacking skill where cleanse only removes 1 stack? I am trying to determine if just Mind Killer is doing something weird or if all stacking debuffs work like this.
Zomega: RR8x Zealot

Zxul
Posts: 1483

Re: Mind killer cleanese are you serious?

Post#7 » Sat May 11, 2024 2:46 pm

Omegus wrote: Sat May 11, 2024 2:27 pm
Mergrim wrote: Sat May 11, 2024 12:52 pm
Omegus wrote: Sat May 11, 2024 11:16 am Off topic in the first reply. Well done.

I was under the impression that cleanse always removed an entire stack for things like mind killer, rend (Mara), etc. Does it not do that in general or is Mind Killer just bugger. Has OP actually tested to confirm how cleanse works for all stacking debuffs?
It's sad that people are surprised that cleanse removed all mind killer debuffs before. Yea i have tested...there is no logic in this skill now. 3stack no cd vs 5sec cleanse when you had a lot other dots to clenese...1smart bg and whole enemy team is -50% heal 80-90% time.Was in sc with Am that had outgoin heal debuff 95% uptime on him.
This is so broken and should be instantly fixed, not in balance patch in future...
Is Mind Killer the only stacking skill where cleanse only removes 1 stack? I am trying to determine if just Mind Killer is doing something weird or if all stacking debuffs work like this.
Per forums at least, for all stacking skills cleanse only removes 1 stack since the abilities patch. Haven't tested it myself though.
"Can we play with him, master? He seems so unhappy. Let us help him smile. Please? Or at least let us carve one on his face when he stops screaming."

— Azeila, Alluress of Slaanesh

Gargis
Posts: 68

Re: Mind killer cleanese are you serious?

Post#8 » Sat May 11, 2024 3:09 pm

BG is the ultimate tank. Have RR 80 one, so yea.

Literally you can keep that outgoing up 100% of the time irrespective of cleansing, and the RP Swift Rune tactic will not help because RP can't cleanse the outgoing.

It gets better, the BG does not have to push the left tree if it wants to actually survive in wb play as 2H'er. Meme, I guess, but its the only tank that can over-cap toughness as 2H.

As far as the 5s KD. Anyone with a minimal amount of game play will know that if you spec 4/4 block and guard mdps that proc will be up on CD, via guard damage. To claim that is some sort of "need to stars to align for it to work" is utter BS.

Furious Howl, yes please. I like it better than PD, and it stacks with PD. I like the de-buff on Destro better.

What ppl should be talking about is another Disaster in the Tank balance patch.

IB-ES and BG-WoS, about equal or close enough. ST snare on Kn/Chosen and SM/BO equal.
Not Freaking equal, COC in combination of BO grp 6s immunity and run speed increase via WB/Linecracker tactic, LOL on a 30s CD. It has more up time that 8 pce def Sov looking at the intervals.

Why not just delete all order healers now. It would be quicker. At will, the destro melee train can be pummeling the Order back line and there is nothing that Order tanks can do about it because COC snares them more that enough to prevent them getting back to float guard properly.

It gets better. Desto has better anti-kiting with GttC and mara pull, but Powered etching was nerfed to hell, 5s w/KB is not worth giving out free immunities. It was the only skill that I could rely on when a healer got pulled to save them, now its trash.

Tank balance patch? More like tank Garbage patch. Its long overdue that Kn get Vigilance back for 2H. Revert the snare changes, they are 100% Destro "I'll stroke it any time Daddy" while F'ing Order healers to hell and back. Disaster, bias and whatever adjective you wish to add is a better descriptor.

Gravvord is gone, so what is the problem.

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siglade
Posts: 104

Re: Mind killer cleanese are you serious?

Post#9 » Sat May 11, 2024 3:29 pm

Mergrim wrote: Sat May 11, 2024 9:06 am Are you changing how cleansing works and leaving the mind killer BG as it is?

Mind Killer- no CD, stack 3 times, 50% outgoin heal debuff with tactic. Almost imposible to cleanse.

Meanwhile IB Inspiring Attack-5sec cd, not stack, 50% outgoin heal debuff with tactic.
How long has this situation existed?
You're just hammering another nail into the coffin. One step forward and 10 back.

The cleanse should cleanse the entire stack of mind killer.
It's working as intended, cleanse only remove one stack of debuff/dot stacking up to three times since ability rework. Soul Killer tactic might need a review from the balance team, feel free to wrote one.
bachata, excommunicate abuser

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Aluviya
Posts: 163

Re: Mind killer cleanese are you serious?

Post#10 » Sat May 11, 2024 3:38 pm

Omegus wrote: Sat May 11, 2024 2:27 pm
Mergrim wrote: Sat May 11, 2024 12:52 pm
Omegus wrote: Sat May 11, 2024 11:16 am Off topic in the first reply. Well done.

I was under the impression that cleanse always removed an entire stack for things like mind killer, rend (Mara), etc. Does it not do that in general or is Mind Killer just bugger. Has OP actually tested to confirm how cleanse works for all stacking debuffs?
It's sad that people are surprised that cleanse removed all mind killer debuffs before. Yea i have tested...there is no logic in this skill now. 3stack no cd vs 5sec cleanse when you had a lot other dots to clenese...1smart bg and whole enemy team is -50% heal 80-90% time.Was in sc with Am that had outgoin heal debuff 95% uptime on him.
This is so broken and should be instantly fixed, not in balance patch in future...
Is Mind Killer the only stacking skill where cleanse only removes 1 stack? I am trying to determine if just Mind Killer is doing something weird or if all stacking debuffs work like this.
No, there are others skills like Envenomed Blade (WE) stacks (3x) that you could remove with 1 cleanse.
siglade wrote: Sat May 11, 2024 3:29 pm
Mergrim wrote: Sat May 11, 2024 9:06 am Are you changing how cleansing works and leaving the mind killer BG as it is?

Mind Killer- no CD, stack 3 times, 50% outgoin heal debuff with tactic. Almost imposible to cleanse.

Meanwhile IB Inspiring Attack-5sec cd, not stack, 50% outgoin heal debuff with tactic.
How long has this situation existed?
You're just hammering another nail into the coffin. One step forward and 10 back.

The cleanse should cleanse the entire stack of mind killer.
It's working as intended, cleanse only remove one stack of debuff/dot stacking up to three times since ability rework. Soul Killer tactic might need a review from the balance team, feel free to wrote one.
I highly doubt the way it current is, is intended. It's way too strong for the investment done. After all we are talking about an outgoing healdebuff that last 20 secs and that requires an investment of 8 Masterypoints, has no cooldown, a stackable willpower debuff component, on a Tank class. WL needs to invest here 14 Mastery points to get the same effect which lasts only 10 secs without the additionall willpower debuff and a cooldown of 10 sec.
Last edited by Aluviya on Sat May 11, 2024 3:47 pm, edited 7 times in total.

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