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Evaluating differences in sustain between factions - LOTD 12/05/24

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leftayparxoun
Posts: 67

Re: Evaluating differences in sustain between factions - LOTD 12/05/24

Post#31 » Fri May 17, 2024 10:13 pm

royaltydna wrote: Fri May 17, 2024 7:39 pm Just thought of something. Ingame scoreboard counts dmg done to NPCs as "Kill Dmg", is the website doing so too?

Any players that were in that City remember how it went? Did Order cap anything? Who killed the Lords in phases 2 and 3?
If true then it could pretty much invalidate both analyses so far.
I assumed killboard doesn't count that since kills there are equal to the deaths of the enemy faction.
Will try to test it out on both LOTD and next City if I manage to join on a healer (by only doing damage to NPCs)
Onlymelee, Onlyhealing, Onlyhater, Onlybacklash, Onlytank - Entropy and Chaos

"All men make mistakes, but a good man yields when he knows his course is wrong, and repairs the evil. The only crime is pride."
The Antigone of Sophocles

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royaltydna
Posts: 4

Re: Evaluating differences in sustain between factions - LOTD 12/05/24

Post#32 » Fri May 17, 2024 10:57 pm

I wasn't clear in my wording, i've only noticed scoreboard doing that that in City. I think LotD is still valid and we just have to figure out what it means.

And i think we just need someone who was there to tell us what happened. How many BOs were capped by Order in Phase 1 (and all the mobs and cannons you gotta kill), who killed Lords in phase 2, and if Destro killed The Emperor in phase 3. Mobs don't add a lot to ur Kill Dmg, but Cannons and Lords do.

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Gakin
Posts: 33

Re: Evaluating differences in sustain between factions - LOTD 12/05/24

Post#33 » Sat May 18, 2024 3:34 am

royaltydna wrote: Fri May 17, 2024 10:57 pm And i think we just need someone who was there to tell us what happened. How many BOs were capped by Order in Phase 1 (and all the mobs and cannons you gotta kill), who killed Lords in phase 2, and if Destro killed The Emperor in phase 3. Mobs don't add a lot to ur Kill Dmg, but Cannons and Lords do.
You can check bragunfmj on twitch, latest video from this city. It was like even non stop fight stage 1, then destro failed a bit in stage 2, and won stage 3 (killed all order champs).
Gakjinz sham and many alts, FMJ guild

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leftayparxoun
Posts: 67

Re: Evaluating differences in sustain between factions - LOTD 12/05/24

Post#34 » Sat May 18, 2024 10:02 am

For this specific city I'd say it's way better than it could be if kill damage to NPCs counts.
Order:
-10 or so mobs of ~5k HP to get to the first BO.
- No cannon kills
- No stage 2 Hero kills
- No stage 3 Leader kill

Destro:
-No stage 2 Hero kills
- Karl Franz kill

Will try to find out if the kill damage from NPCs counts in killboard and also factor in Stage 3 Champions (which I failed to consider) and update the results soon.
Onlymelee, Onlyhealing, Onlyhater, Onlybacklash, Onlytank - Entropy and Chaos

"All men make mistakes, but a good man yields when he knows his course is wrong, and repairs the evil. The only crime is pride."
The Antigone of Sophocles

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leftayparxoun
Posts: 67

Re: Evaluating differences in sustain between factions - LOTD 12/05/24

Post#35 » Sat May 18, 2024 8:04 pm

In this LOTD I checked and indeed killing Mobs registers kill damage.
This wouldn't necessarily invalidate the entirety of both analyses, but it makes it exceptionally harder to filter that data out of the overall kill damage.
Especially in LOTD if just one side has people farming scales or just fights a lot more of the neutral patrols.

I will try to filter out the mobs kill damage in the City analysis however, where we directly know which enemies died due to the Video recording (thanks Brogn).
Onlymelee, Onlyhealing, Onlyhater, Onlybacklash, Onlytank - Entropy and Chaos

"All men make mistakes, but a good man yields when he knows his course is wrong, and repairs the evil. The only crime is pride."
The Antigone of Sophocles

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CyunUnderis
Posts: 507
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Re: Evaluating differences in sustain between factions - LOTD 12/05/24

Post#36 » Sat May 18, 2024 8:33 pm

leftayparxoun wrote: Fri May 17, 2024 5:56 pm New analysis of a quite equal City fight on 13/5/24 is also ready:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tqj ... sp=sharing

You will see how despite Order losing, they managed to sustain themselves much better than Destro did, achieving a (destro to order) Recovery ratio of ~0.55 compared to this LOTD's 1.68.

The city results are in line with my Interpretation of Order's sustain-oriented design in the LOTD analysis and (imo) give further credibility to my thoughts regarding some underlying factor(s) skewing the outcome of this LOTD.

P.S: Interestingly enough, having 3 times more Shamy's than AMs doesn't seem to give destro any significant advantage regarding healing OR Recovery.
I was in this City, Destruction side. I didn't read your analysis about it yet (I'll edit this comment if I have more to say), but to put more context, it was for Order 3 AoE parties + 1 ST party (composed of 2 SL - mostly AoEing close to the ball) and for Destruction 2 AoE parties + 2 ST parties (with little room to switch to 3 AoE).

P1 & P2, Order had more kills than Destruction (by a lot). And in P3, thanks to Champions Ability, Destruction took a lot of kills.

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