I would strongly suggest reworking Coordination tactic by replacing the Sunder with Shining Blade.
This is more thematically incline with the skill name, Shining Blade literally works by coordinating with your allies.
It's an ability already in rotation for PvP, and not trying to fit another skill into the rotation.
Knights have to pay the price of a tactic to get something their mirror gets for free, so it shouldn't have to cost us a GCD as well as the slot, one resource is enough.
This should not effect SnB negatively in any way I can think of.
Both builds would then* face the possibility of not having 100% uptime due to blessings being stripped, but think the tradeoff is worth it risk assessment.
As an attempt to provide parry to 2-handed KotBS builds, this feels less than great so far.
*Edit: clarified
Coordination Tactic rework
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Coordination Tactic rework
Last edited by ShadowWar on Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Coordination Tactic rework
The kotbs is overloaded with utility, kinda over the top so there should be some trade offs. Lower dmg and many tools tactic related are some trade offs
Mostly harmless
K8P & Norn - guild Orz
K8P & Norn - guild Orz
Re: Coordination Tactic rework
The fact that Knight has been given a bonus to parry in the form of tactics is a huge advantage and not a disadvantage. This allows him to combine the buff from tactics with vanq/triu/sove or weapon.ShadowWar wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2024 3:16 am I would strongly suggest reworking Coordination tactic by replacing the Sunder with Shining Blade.
This is more thematically incline with the skill name, Shining Blade literally works by coordinating with your allies.
It's an ability already in rotation for PvP, and not trying to fit another skill into the rotation.
Knights have to pay the price of a tactic to get something their mirror gets for free, so it shouldn't have to cost us a GCD as well as the slot, one resource is enough.
This should not effect SnB negatively in any way I can think of.
Both builds now face the possibility of not having 100% uptime due to blessings being stripped, but think the tradeoff is worth it risk assessment.
As an attempt to provide parry to 2-handed KotBS builds, this feels less than great so far.
74% parry on Knight. Poor Chosen.
A tactic that is assigned to a skill that has no cd is excellent.
By the way, why does Knight ‘Shield rush’ (10% block) stack with vanq/triu/sove bonus and chosen ‘Suppression’ does not?
Knight now beats poor Chosen in every aspect of the game and every spec (the only exception being solo roaming - meaningless in a team-based game).
Hurub Chopa 80+ / Wybrany Chosen 80+ / Mroczniak BG 60+ / Alubercik BO 50+ / Doczek DoK 80+ / Hurubek Zeal 80+ /
Misio Shaman 80+ / Maxra Mara 60+ / Alubertus RP 70+ / Alubert KTB 80+ / Mnich WP 60+ / Kregi SL 60+ / Uposledzonyjez IB 40+
Misio Shaman 80+ / Maxra Mara 60+ / Alubertus RP 70+ / Alubert KTB 80+ / Mnich WP 60+ / Kregi SL 60+ / Uposledzonyjez IB 40+
Re: Coordination Tactic rework
Kotbs 2h lost all parry from WS (2h knights used to stack this). Now has to spend a tactic to get what it previously gained from WS. But whatever fits the destro mind narrative .
Chosen is the most played tank in the game, yes poor guy that can roam like a God among tanks, is strong in all group settings of the game. There is only 1 des tank that has the rights to complain and Chosen is not it(Hint: BO 2H). IIRC chosen shouldn't even have deamon claw if you want to go by stuff added.Alubert wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2024 12:02 pm This allows him to combine the buff from tactics with vanq/triu/sove or weapon.
74% parry on Knight. Poor Chosen.
A tactic that is assigned to a skill that has no cd is excellent.
By the way, why does Knight ‘Shield rush’ (10% block) stack with vanq/triu/sove bonus and chosen ‘Suppression’ does not?
Knight now beats poor Chosen in every aspect of the game and every spec (the only exception being solo roaming - meaningless in a team-based game).
Meanwhile kotbs is an aura bot with no dps, utility- wise he might be a little OP but so boring to play that no sane human being ( after all we play games to be entertained) can stick to it for endgame unless they're forced to sacrifce themselves for the guild/leader and play this glorified aura bot.
Knight in RoR is a bad joke unfortunately as been said many times.
Re: Coordination Tactic rework
1 Just because it has been said many times that Knight is a bad joke does not mean it is true.Farrul wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2024 12:35 pmKotbs 2h lost all parry from WS (2h knights used to stack this). Now has to spend a tactic to get what it previously gained from WS. But whatever fits the destro mind narrative .
Chosen is the most played tank in the game, yes poor guy that can roam like a God among tanks, is strong in all group settings of the game. There is only 1 des tank that has the rights to complain and Chosen is not it(Hint: BO 2H). IIRC chosen shouldn't even have deamon claw if you want to go by stuff added.Alubert wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2024 12:02 pm This allows him to combine the buff from tactics with vanq/triu/sove or weapon.
74% parry on Knight. Poor Chosen.
A tactic that is assigned to a skill that has no cd is excellent.
By the way, why does Knight ‘Shield rush’ (10% block) stack with vanq/triu/sove bonus and chosen ‘Suppression’ does not?
Knight now beats poor Chosen in every aspect of the game and every spec (the only exception being solo roaming - meaningless in a team-based game).
Meanwhile kotbs is an aura bot with no dps, utility- wise he might be a little OP but so boring to play that no sane human being ( after all we play games to be entertained) can stick to it for endgame unless they're forced to sacrifce themselves for the guild/leader and play this glorified aura bot.
Knight in RoR is a bad joke unfortunately as been said many times.
2.Top utility tank in the game in snb spec and now additionally in 2h spec.
3.Tank with the highest amount of parry (BG doesn't have 100 hate all the time to use the bonus).
4.As for my state of mind it is neither destro nor order.
I have characters on two sides of the conflict including 80+ Chosen and 80+ Knight and what I can tell you is Chosen is a bad joke vs Knight.
5 I would never use Daemonclaw instead of Rugged. Without parry you then have no tougness.
6. I don't understand why you complain that WS now doesn't give you two components - offensive and defensive. From what you write you want to hit harder. You can still do it but you have to decide whether to be a tank or a beating tank. You want to beat harder then don't expect that you can be tough.
7. Either way, I wouldn't mind if Knight Runefang gave str + tough or ws + tough.
No good Knight would put it on anyway because it has a lot of other better tactics that affect the whole party not like its little brother Chosen.
Hurub Chopa 80+ / Wybrany Chosen 80+ / Mroczniak BG 60+ / Alubercik BO 50+ / Doczek DoK 80+ / Hurubek Zeal 80+ /
Misio Shaman 80+ / Maxra Mara 60+ / Alubertus RP 70+ / Alubert KTB 80+ / Mnich WP 60+ / Kregi SL 60+ / Uposledzonyjez IB 40+
Misio Shaman 80+ / Maxra Mara 60+ / Alubertus RP 70+ / Alubert KTB 80+ / Mnich WP 60+ / Kregi SL 60+ / Uposledzonyjez IB 40+
Re: Coordination Tactic rework
None of this is a counter to anything I mentioned, or a justification for the implementation in it's current state. The class already deals with those trade-offs, and nothing changes about that with my proposal.
Tactic Slots are precious. GCDs are similarly important. There is already a HUGE trade-off to take this tactic slot, the drawbacks are too severe, and the solution does not feel good except for Sword and Board, specifically because Shield Rush is already in the normal rotations. Be forced to fit another ability is penalizing 2-handers twice for something that is baseline on their mirror, and costs one OR the other for every other tank (tactic or GCD, not both).
Re: Coordination Tactic rework
I think that seems difficult and not very feasibleShadowWar wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2024 3:16 am I would strongly suggest reworking Coordination tactic by replacing the Sunder with Shining Blade.
This is more thematically incline with the skill name, Shining Blade literally works by coordinating with your allies.
It's an ability already in rotation for PvP, and not trying to fit another skill into the rotation.
Knights have to pay the price of a tactic to get something their mirror gets for free, so it shouldn't have to cost us a GCD as well as the slot, one resource is enough.
This should not effect SnB negatively in any way I can think of.
Both builds now face the possibility of not having 100% uptime due to blessings being stripped, but think the tradeoff is worth it risk assessment.
As an attempt to provide parry to 2-handed KotBS builds, this feels less than great so far.
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Re: Coordination Tactic rework
And in the end kotbs became a tank with most parry of all 2h tanks with pretty much 100% uptime because you can hit sunder whenever you feel like it.
71% (proc+tactic) in bloodlord without channels. Nice joke
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Re: Coordination Tactic rework
Coordination is a tactic that buffs an ability(s).nocturnalguest wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 11:38 am And in the end kotbs became a tank with most parry of all 2h tanks with pretty much 100% uptime because you can hit sunder whenever you feel like it.
71% (proc+tactic) in bloodlord without channels. Nice joke
Therefore, according to the normal stacking rules, it should NOT stack with same buffs from other abilities, procs or pots/linis.
The Bloodlord 7pc proc (which I assume you are refering to) or the 2h Crypt weapon with the Reactionary (parry%) proc should NOT stack with coordination.
If they do (and you get 20%+10% parry instead of 20%), then that's a bug and should be reported on the bugtracker. Is that the case?
Onlymelee, Onlyhealing and more Onlys - Entropy and Chaos - Destro WB Gearing Guide
"All men make mistakes, but a good man yields when he knows his course is wrong, and repairs the evil. The only crime is pride."
―The Antigone of SophoclesRe: Coordination Tactic rework
It's a tactic that gives a buff when some abilities are used. Technically different, but with precedent for stacking already. Also, changing from sunder to Shining Blade stop the 100% uptime for two-handers, which is a boon to balance IMO. That said, if you think that the tactic shouldn't stack with weapon procs because of balance reasons, I'd like to hear why it's not the case for other classes.
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