Destro

[Nidwin]

...
no burst dps - check
no mobility - check

no morale drain - check
no disorient - check

But yes. Standing in the middle of the healers and Sorcs and TE a order squishy makes you a pro, go figure.
Meanwhile TTK -> WL > pro Marauder

[peterthepan3]

...
no burst dps - check
no mobility - check

You have Charge, snare remover, ranged root (easier for you to get to), and a ranged pull.

Disingenuous to suggest that the Marauder has 'no mobility' just because WL has better mobility.

[Warfare80]

yeah if you can spec in all 3 mastery trees at once and wear 2 sets of items at once aswell

The only thing mara doesn't have is a melee KD.

Im sure if destroplayers keeps on crying loud enough,the poor mara will get a melee KD aswell

[Aurandilaz]

Do you really need all of that on top of just getting the RnD M2 mirrored to the sorc for free with no repercussions?
I mean how cheezy can you get with all wb pumping morals outside of doks and rare few MDPS.

Or a nifty low cooldown combo of choppa pulls into zdps zealot punts, a perfectly balanced set of tools surely available to both sides of the realm. Who even needs moral drain when you can just take a token deftard squig to pounce-gas-punt the backline.

I'd even argue that Raze moving to m3 did hurt order more, coz we ain't seeing it in go off now in pretty much any scenario, while ez pump to Distracting Bellow is a valid option with its 100ft range. And other stuff, but I think I'm repeating myself

sorc should have never gotten a bomb m2, its absurd as it is... even BW M2 with a core pump tactic was questionable as hell balancing, a mystery mythic leftover, but torque just mirroring said m2 bomb to destro, IMO, was a bad move. now we have all sorc playing like bws and melting at close ranges because "aaaah im gonna bomb like a BW...oops im ded" [without WP woundsbuff and without having same procpower from Anni/SE/FB spam].

choppa pull gives 30 sec immunity, so doesnt work that way, other way sure, from zealot to choppa does work, welcome to destro baseball, though it looks cooler when zealot starts the punting and magus sucks in people already midair from 65ft away, a retarded choppa ungabunga 40ft range doesnt just look as amazing (too many choppas giving immunities like free candy, but engis do same so it kinda balances out with the freeimmunities). zealot winds is pretty questionable balance as it is, but dunno how to deal with that one, there do need to be effective dispersal tools to counter 8 BW bombblob - maybe one day when order meta moves away from BW stacking and WH/WL/SW get viable aoe specs from our wise balance devs, I would be totally for nerfing zealot winds, as then you would not need borderline OP tools to deal with borderline OP BW stacking.

Raze being M3 kinda killed it for everyone, so hard to say whose morale bomb is more dead now. SM WoH is excellent WB tool when properly utilized, and getting enough KOTB m3 drops allows "2nd morale drop" if BW m2 is the first one out. BORK M3 is nice, tbh not sure what our Chosens are running for morales these days, hopefully they just know when to pop M2 dmg debuff at right times/spots.

and whoever may think of trying to get a Squig into warband deserves a guild kick back to pugging shoo shoo goblins

[Scrilian]

Spoiler:

sorc should have never gotten a bomb m2, its absurd as it is... even BW M2 with a core pump tactic was questionable as hell balancing, a mystery mythic leftover, but torque just mirroring said m2 bomb to destro, IMO, was a bad move. now we have all sorc playing like bws and melting at close ranges because "aaaah im gonna bomb like a BW...oops im ded" [without WP woundsbuff and without having same procpower from Anni/SE/FB spam].

choppa pull gives 30 sec immunity, so doesnt work that way, other way sure, from zealot to choppa does work, welcome to destro baseball, though it looks cooler when zealot starts the punting and magus sucks in people already midair from 65ft away, a retarded choppa ungabunga 40ft range doesnt just look as amazing (too many choppas giving immunities like free candy, but engis do same so it kinda balances out with the freeimmunities). zealot winds is pretty questionable balance as it is, but dunno how to deal with that one, there do need to be effective dispersal tools to counter 8 BW bombblob - maybe one day when order meta moves away from BW stacking and WH/WL/SW get viable aoe specs from our wise balance devs, I would be totally for nerfing zealot winds, as then you would not need borderline OP tools to deal with borderline OP BW stacking.

Raze being M3 kinda killed it for everyone, so hard to say whose morale bomb is more dead now. SM WoH is excellent WB tool when properly utilized, and getting enough KOTB m3 drops allows "2nd morale drop" if BW m2 is the first one out. BORK M3 is nice, tbh not sure what our Chosens are running for morales these days, hopefully they just know when to pop M2 dmg debuff at right times/spots.

and whoever may think of trying to get a Squig into warband deserves a guild kick back to pugging shoo shoo goblins

Does it even matter if WP has a wounds buff or not since its not hard to proc it via SM/BO?
I mean I keep hearing about it quite a bit, even though it's not that crucial or relevant, coz destso has core wounds debuff on best tank and by the endgame everyone would probably use wounds+power oil, just like on live in the pre-80+ era.

I'd argue that the Sorc "bomblob" is just as good, less procs with much greater reach, so I'm not convinced on this whole winds situation, but we'd probably disagree on this one, seeing what a punt-punt-silence can do to a backline and how bullshit it feels.

And I've seen some nice damage coming out of deftard SH, surely not BW/Sorc, but probably higher than Marauder with WoH-style moral.

[Fey]

Why would you take a shaman, kite master as they are, with aoe snare allowing the whole group a measure of mobility, in a meat grinder group? You want zealot with aoe armor debuff, tzeentchs grip, and absorb ritual. DoK is just obvious.

I find any stationary set up with a shaman suspect. But what do I know; I'm just a doctor.

[BeautfulToad]

Why would you take a shaman, kite master as they are, with aoe snare allowing the whole group a measure of mobility, in a meat grinder group? You want zealot with aoe armor debuff, tzeentchs grip, and absorb ritual. DoK is just obvious.

I find any stationary set up with a shaman suspect. But what do I know; I'm just a doctor.

TBF, I suspect you would be relying more on order fielding the SM/SW/WL triad people were complaining about as their primary tank/dps members. The basic premise of the strat is that you don't have a squishy backline at all, and you want a strategy which actually wants the WL/SW to pounce (basically, they are jumping into the grinder). The idea of a DoK is that it would have staying power in the front, so a tanky zealot build might be fun if that's a thing since a zealot has group snare, etc.

Anyway, it is just a bit of fun discussing weird destro strategies that would be fun to try out. This one is fun since I think it would be less feasible in order, or at least such a tactic would have far fewer options than destro, and it would be funny in a few months if we start hearing the destro pull is OP in six mans.

[Tesq]

Spoiler:

sorc should have never gotten a bomb m2, its absurd as it is... even BW M2 with a core pump tactic was questionable as hell balancing, a mystery mythic leftover, but torque just mirroring said m2 bomb to destro, IMO, was a bad move. now we have all sorc playing like bws and melting at close ranges because "aaaah im gonna bomb like a BW...oops im ded" [without WP woundsbuff and without having same procpower from Anni/SE/FB spam].

choppa pull gives 30 sec immunity, so doesnt work that way, other way sure, from zealot to choppa does work, welcome to destro baseball, though it looks cooler when zealot starts the punting and magus sucks in people already midair from 65ft away, a retarded choppa ungabunga 40ft range doesnt just look as amazing (too many choppas giving immunities like free candy, but engis do same so it kinda balances out with the freeimmunities). zealot winds is pretty questionable balance as it is, but dunno how to deal with that one, there do need to be effective dispersal tools to counter 8 BW bombblob - maybe one day when order meta moves away from BW stacking and WH/WL/SW get viable aoe specs from our wise balance devs, I would be totally for nerfing zealot winds, as then you would not need borderline OP tools to deal with borderline OP BW stacking.

Raze being M3 kinda killed it for everyone, so hard to say whose morale bomb is more dead now. SM WoH is excellent WB tool when properly utilized, and getting enough KOTB m3 drops allows "2nd morale drop" if BW m2 is the first one out. BORK M3 is nice, tbh not sure what our Chosens are running for morales these days, hopefully they just know when to pop M2 dmg debuff at right times/spots.

and whoever may think of trying to get a Squig into warband deserves a guild kick back to pugging shoo shoo goblins

Does it even matter if WP has a wounds buff or not since its not hard to proc it via SM/BO?
I mean I keep hearing about it quite a bit, even though it's not that crucial or relevant, coz destso has core wounds debuff on best tank and by the endgame everyone would probably use wounds+power oil, just like on live in the pre-80+ era.

I'd argue that the Sorc "bomblob" is just as good, less procs with much greater reach, so I'm not convinced on this whole winds situation, but we'd probably disagree on this one, seeing what a punt-punt-silence can do to a backline and how bullshit it feels.

And I've seen some nice damage coming out of deftard SH, surely not BW/Sorc, but probably higher than Marauder with WoH-style moral.

wounds debuff on core best tank lol yes but that core best tank dont have rampage and spec def mean other tanks and melee aswell and msot of times even bw if you are unliky will parry your blast wave......

it take 4 chosen to hit aoe-wise consistently something in rvr and even that could not be enough due high volume of block/parry oh yes it cost 50 ap aswell so that you can gimp very well your hold thr line time potential lol

meanwhile kobs --->free infinite ap from useless armor buff (balance! )

the only reason post moral tactic nerf and raze a s+b chosen is even viable is the 25% heal debuff aura

[Onemantankwall]

Not to worry NA destro I will be home from vacay sunday and those within L2P are trying to rush me anxious to start our weekly runs Wed night keep up the WAAAGH!!!

[Scrilian]

meanwhile kobs --->free infinite ap from useless armor buff (balance! )

Could you elaborate on this one? Last time I've played around on my knight I did not recall Perseverance giving more than 10AP per second, unless anything changed in the past year or so. Surely not felt infinite by any stretch of the imagination