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[RP & RVR EVENT] The High King versus The Warlord

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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: [RP & RVR EVENT] The High King versus The Warlord

Post#141 » Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:08 pm

Waaghaa wrote:
wiscel wrote:It was impossbile for me to play because of the lag. Maybe next time spread the big blobs over 3 zones and only the races for that zone can enter. Empire/Chaos fight in Praag, Elves/Dark Elves in Dragonwake, Dwarfs/Greenskins in Thunder Mountain? I know, I'm asking the impossible :-D
Dont see the impossible in such task tbh, it takes atleast 6 GM / players taking the role of faction leaders, would actually be quite cool I reckon.

While the initiative is cool, it was still zergy as hell and would be nice if the blob would split up a bit as I dare say a lot of people don't enjoy blob fights.
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Glorian
Posts: 4976

Re: [RP & RVR EVENT] The High King versus The Warlord

Post#142 » Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:15 pm

Well speak only for yourself. :D
I found it quite refreshing to have such high numbers in the RvR zones. There were places in where the dead plastered the ground in small piles.

Felt a little Lord of the Rings like.
Of course there were some tired dropouts after the fourth fore and back to the WC. ;)
But as I said. You can't control all the players in RvR. Only try to give some directions.
At the last big RvR event with the heroes, the heroes positions were announced and he told the people around him where he wants to go.

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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: [RP & RVR EVENT] The High King versus The Warlord

Post#143 » Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:21 pm

If you enjoy laggy zerg fights then that's your prerogative :) would be nice to have the fights split up a bit so smaller groups/6 mans could make an impact.
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Kragg
Posts: 1769

Re: [RP & RVR EVENT] The High King versus The Warlord

Post#144 » Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:25 pm

Amidala wrote:SO FUNNY!!! I want more events like this!Ty devs ty BT <3
Dc'ed 4 times but i did a lot of rp :lol: :lol: ''KILL THE FAT GREENSKIN!''
Maybe we should help you in your campaign to become Queen by voting? :mrgreen:

Glad you liked it tho!
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Tiggo
Former Staff
Posts: 1948

Re: [RP & RVR EVENT] The High King versus The Warlord

Post#145 » Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:29 pm

sotora wrote: Said and understanding all that - it was really horrible. Maybe splitting mega zerg into two zergs giving two objectives in diffrent part of lake would help?

the first dev aproach should an will be: make it happen that it works! Only if they tried hard and just doesnt work they think about a workaround.

having these events with a LOT of players in one lake is the best testing environment you can get, makes no sense to do a workaround after first try.
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saupreusse
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Re: [RP & RVR EVENT] The High King versus The Warlord

Post#146 » Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:29 pm

Amidala wrote:SO FUNNY!!! I want more events like this!Ty devs ty BT <3
Dc'ed 4 times but i did a lot of rp :lol: :lol: ''KILL THE FAT GREENSKIN!''
Im not fat!
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Tiggo
Former Staff
Posts: 1948

Re: [RP & RVR EVENT] The High King versus The Warlord

Post#147 » Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:30 pm

saupreusse wrote:
Amidala wrote:SO FUNNY!!! I want more events like this!Ty devs ty BT <3
Dc'ed 4 times but i did a lot of rp :lol: :lol: ''KILL THE FAT GREENSKIN!''
Im not fat!
arent all germans fat guys in lederhosen? ^^


omg that brings me to a next event idea: Bavarian Highland Games! ^^
- Martock - Tiggo - Antigonos - Mago - Hamilkar - Melquart
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Natherul
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Re: [RP & RVR EVENT] The High King versus The Warlord

Post#148 » Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:48 pm

saupreusse wrote:
Amidala wrote:SO FUNNY!!! I want more events like this!Ty devs ty BT <3
Dc'ed 4 times but i did a lot of rp :lol: :lol: ''KILL THE FAT GREENSKIN!''
Im not fat!
He´be talkin´bout me gitface!

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Mcgotrek
Posts: 250

Re: [RP & RVR EVENT] The High King versus The Warlord

Post#149 » Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:56 pm

Tiggo wrote:
saupreusse wrote:
Amidala wrote:SO FUNNY!!! I want more events like this!Ty devs ty BT <3
Dc'ed 4 times but i did a lot of rp :lol: :lol: ''KILL THE FAT GREENSKIN!''
Im not fat!
arent all germans fat guys in lederhosen? ^^


omg that brings me to a next event idea: Bavarian Highland Games! ^^
BAVARIAN HIGHLAND GOBBO GAMES! Where we toss gobbos like in Scottish caber tossing?! Couldnt those rat ogres throw people up the walls? :)
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IndiscreetJewels
Posts: 10

Re: [RP & RVR EVENT] The High King versus The Warlord

Post#150 » Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:01 pm

Here are my 2 cents about the event. It is a bit long, but I was in a mood and had time to spare, so I tried to be thorough and hope it will be useful to someone somewhere. :)

Context
Spoiler:
I’m a fairly new player. I didn’t play on live except very briefly around release. I liked the game then, but didn’t have the time or desire to play it at that time. Now, I have a few lvl 40 characters here, but none of them are out of RR 30s. I wouldn’t call myself a casual player, but I’m not too dedicated either. I mostly play WAR in ‘binges’. Meaning, I find something new and interesting to explore (new alt, professions, SCs on particular character, etc) and as long as my interest doesn’t fade, I can stay on the server for days on end, since lately I’ve had a lot of free time on my hands. I play solo almost exclusively. Which is probably one of the reasons why I don’t enjoy oRvR that much and spend most of my time leveling alts or doing SCs. oRvR as a solo player feels like pointless zerging from BO to BO which concludes in glorious afk in front of a keep. Sometimes we take it, sometimes we don’t, but mostly I log off before the fight is over or go do something else. In general it feels boring and pointless. Some of it is, of course, due to my lack of knowledge about nuances of RvR. When I’m actively playing WAR, I visit the site once or twice a day and follow particulary interesting discussion on forum (though, as you can see, I refrain from posting that much:) ).

I got to know about the event by reading the front page post a few days prior to it. I wasn’t too excited about it, since I’m not that big on RP (although, I enjoy getting to know more about the lore of games I play, if it’s not too cringy or cheesy). I wouldn’t say I specifically logged in for the event, but I was aware of it. When I logged in, I just went along since it seemed more interesting than just grinding SCs.


The Good

Spoiler:
Activity and scale. I was very pleasantly surprised by the activity this event garnered. I think it was one of the main reasons I took part in it myself. It was very cool seeing hundreds of players in one place doing the same thing. At least ‘sort of’ doing the same thing, the same ‘task’. And in this case it doesn’t even matter that much, that the action or ‘task’ was quite rudimentary in it’s contents – just running around IC or zerging back and forth Praag. In essence it was a mob, a united mass moving against another mass. And being part of that mass felt quite nice. In essence it maybe was just a zerg on bigger scale, but with added leader figures, at least at times, it felt meaningful and with a purpose (it should be added – a moot purpose of moving against other mass; I will add on this later), in contrast to the usual PuG zerg in oRvR.


Community aspect. I want to add to this that one of the appeals of this community and server to me is the ‘esoteric’ nature of it. By ‘esoteric’ meaning, that the server itself is sort of a closed community united by knowledge or appreciation of things hidden to others (the appeal of this game might be completely unattainable to the ‘mainstream gamer’, for example). I think events like these are very fitting for this type of community. They are not only ‘something to do’, but also a sort of celebration of what unites us as a community, despite all differences of opinion in particular questions. And by that I mean not only the game itself, the gameplay, but also the particular nature of this server – the personal and obviously caring and enthusiastic attitude of the devs and administration. The latter being, I think, a very exclusive luxury in modern gaming. The fact that the leaders weren’t just scripted mobs, that they were manipulated and ‘came to life’ (was played by a human being) before our eyes not only added to appeal of this event, but, at least for me, reminded why I appreactiate and enjoy this community, even if I’m not too active in it.


Meaningful gameplay. I already mentioned this, but the event felt meaningful. At least to an extent. As I said before, of course there’s nothing apparently meaningful about running around in a blob or mass of other people. As solo players we do it all the time in oRvR, and it is, of course, not that exciting by itself. And yet, taking into account the active participation of other people on a massive scale and the community aspects I mentioned before, it felt meaningful and, therefore, fun. There is, of course, the novelty aspect of event like this, and I think it was important, but I wouldn’t say it was the main reason that made the experience enjoyable for me. After all, I wouldn’t join in or would leave soon after if the event itself didn’t have anything appealing. Adding to already mentioned aspects above, I’d say ‘the potential for the unexpected’ was way more important. And that, of course, is due to Leaders being players themselves. But not ‘just players’, of course, which commands respect – at least ‘in play’. The Warboss player was, after all, something that most players on this server won’t and can’t be. If not for the model in game or lore, it was fun playing alongside ‘the unatainable, yet still human’. This added layer of potential variability and unexpected gameplay was what seperated this event from the everyday zerg from BO to BO.

I have to say, though, that what I’ve written in this paragraph didn’t actually happen or happened only to a lesser extent. I will expand upon this further later. What kept me going, though, was the promise of it – the actual possibility of it happening.
Summary of ‘The Good’: I enjoyed the scale of the event. The active participation of that many players was surprising and pleasant. The even offered meaningful gameplay in terms of feeling like a part of specific community and a promise of meaningful gameplay in terms of actual in game activity.




The Bad
Spoiler:
I’d like to preface what follows by saying that I was satisfied with the event and most of the things mentioned here are of the ‘it was ok, but could be better, this is how [in my opinion]...’ sort or generally excusable and understandable in light of this being sort of a test run. I appreciate the effort that was put into making this event and I have no intention of offend anyone. My intention is still to provide more or less complete account of my expierence of the event. With that said:


The Zerg and the Lag. Yes, it was fun to see that many players in one place. It was fun to run around IC after Warboss. The first few clashes at the center of Praag was fun. And soon it stopped being fun, because it started to feel stupid and pointless. It was even less fun being farmed at choke points, but that’s besides the point. It was also not fun to crash and generally being only partly able to do anything on my character. Of course, we can say that the participants themselves are responsible for this, but I think there were some obvious and simple things that organizers could’ve done to avoid the zerg. Which leads me to my main criticism of the event:


General lack of structure and planning (content wise). It felt like the organizers hadn’t thought it through completely or, otherwise, that something had gone a bit wrong and they weren’t prepared for it. I don’t think anyone is to blame and I’m sure these things were noticed by organizers thesmselves and will be just stepping stones for better future. Yesterday I saw it more as (understandably) wasted opportunities.

-The Leaders, for example. As I pointed out earlier, it was a great idea to have them be played by live players and the event, probably, wouldn’t be possible otherwise. I mentioned also that it created a feeling of promise of meaningful gameplay. Almost only a promise, though. I sort of expected these guys to lead – at least in a rudimentary way. Instead, most of the time I saw these figures just waddling around the zerg back and forth, almost being the same zerglings as the rest of us. I was playing on Destro side and closer to the end of the event I was happy to see that the Warboss actually started doing what he, at least in my eyes, was supposed to do as a leading figure – lead. I spent the rest of the event capturing BOs along side the Warboss and eventually sieging the keep. It was a really welcome change from zerging back and forth Praag. Sadly, we didn’t meet that much resistance when we started doing that. I’d like to say thank you to whoever was playing Grumlok for that. I’m not entirely sure why other Leaders were so eager to just run in straight line for the center of Praag all the time. (I do admit, that maybe I missed something, but that was the general impression). I think the lack of initiative and purpose of Leaders on both sides played a big part in the event turning into massive zergfest, in my opinion.

For future events, I’d really love to see Leaders actually leading – be it from the front or by giving orders. Also, imagine how fun it’d be if the Leaders actually gave out commands to the participating Warbands, be it pugs or premade ones? I suppose it is a bit of a long shot, but wouldn’t it be possible to set up Warbands with capable leaders in advance? I’m sure there are 2-3 experienced and willing players who are capable of taming the pug WBs.
I won’t touch on the RP part of this aspect, since it wasn’t that important for me, but I suppose for hardcore RP players out there, the leaders also were a bit of a letdown.

Overall, I think the event would only gain if the leading figures in it had some sort of a plan or orders to pass down to the participants. Nothing too fancy, of course, since a mob is a mob, but I think there is a lot of unused potential here. Since it is an event...maybe there should also be a script? :)


-Lack of clear victory conditions/objectives. With the frontpage post being as specific as ‘grand battle’ and Leaders not being very willing to lead, it is no surprise the event turned out as zergfest. As a player that has just read the front page post and now stands in front Warboss in IC I need a bit more than just ‘grand battle’ for me not to turn into lemming. I suppose this is the case because the organizers hadn’t really thought further than just making something happen, and that is understandable, given the circumstances. Bystander effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect) seems to be just a basic fact of mob mentality and should be taken into account when making events of this nature.

I suppose, it could be said that we had the objective of killing the opposing factions Leader, but even that wasn’t clearly communicated. Even if it seems obvious for this to be the main objective, it should be somehow quantified. How many times were the Leaders killed yesterday, if that was the main objective? How many time we had to kill them to be victorious? Who was the victorious faction of yesteradys event? Was there a logical possibility of victory? If there is no clear victory condition that depends on various objectives, it is no wonder people act like lemmings.


-Rewards. For me personally, I couldn’t care less, but I understand that some people felt cheated. WHY do we, the lemmings, even want to be victorious? We want the carrot, of course! For some people, this additional layer of motivation is very important and we saw that a lot of people were quite upset about the rewards or lack there of. The (potential!) rewards were mentioned in the info post. Of course, it wasn’t said that they would be exclusive rewards, but it is only natural for people to assume they are not going to be exclusive if no condition of obtaining them is mentioned. Therefore, a lot of people assumed they would get something in return for their effort. Besides that, I think the (assumed) distribution model (DB?) for the rewards also wasn’t very fair, as some pointed out, since some archtypes aren’t very good at dealing DBs, etc.

I think, with a little bit of imagination, there is a way to make people feel appreciated and rewarded accordingly to merit. That is, in case rewards are needed at all. For example, if we want to keep the rewards exclusive, why not make a public vote where we ourselves decide who (player? WB? Guild?) to be rewarded? Maybe the Warbosses should choose who is to be rewarded? Maybe WB leaders should be somehow rewarded? Or even given the chance to reward players of their warband whom they think should be rewarded? I think, if the rewards remain exclusive and not numerous, it wouldn’t be too much of a hassle and would be truly exclusive and meaningful.

Summary of ‘The Bad’: I liked the massive scale of the event, but didn’t like that it turned out to be a massive zergfest and as a result of that (as far as I can guess) massive lagfest also. I think the zerg and therfore lag can be avoided by more active/prepared Leaders and clear objectives and victory conditions for the event. The way the event was presented and the way players were rewarded could’ve been better.



Conclusion
Spoiler:
Overall, I liked the event and it was quite a unique experience. I would like to commend our Warboss, who made it even more enjoyable towards the end. I would really like to participate in events like these in future, but I think would lose interest quite quickly if they were too zergy and laggy. I think events like these are a really unique thing that’s only possible in this type of community. I also think that if this type of thing was somewhat regular, it could help with the ‘realm pride’ thing and longevity of the game, by adding additional long term goal (if the events were more structured and regular – ‘hey, I must do [this/that] to be ready for the next event, etc!’) and gameplay layer.


As someone who has taken part in organizing and planing events in real life, I know that a lot of effort that goes into this kind of endeavour remains unseen and unappreciated, thus I’d especially like to thank the organizers and devs for making this experience possible.

Thanks for reading!

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