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Yaliskah
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Posts: 1973

ORvR rework+ DOOMSDAY : All the truth

Post#1 » Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:38 pm

Übersetzung in Deutsch

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Download link : RoR State of Realm v.1.0.1 is here !(UPDATED)

Hi all, we have many changes at the moment in your ORvR life, and as promised, it’s not finished. This is just the beginning. Some of you are maybe lost and don't really understand where we are going. So, it is time to reveal publicly the blueprint. It is a bit long, so take your time to read it, and before posting, try to keep everything in mind. I really hope you will enjoy the plan.

IMPORTANT: THIS IS THE PLAN, IT WILL BE DEPLOYED STEP BY STEP WHEN READY.
LEGEND: GREEN=DEPLOYED

I. Preamble.
Spoiler:
To begin with and for the small story, this project has been designed for a long time. The initial purpose was to prove to Azarael that War ORvR wasn't just something shitty, f*cked, impossible to enhance, or merely animated by nostalgia. Hopefully, he will see this attempt and be at ease.
Keep in mind since a year (at least), we first focused on T1, and have spent more than 3 months to make the general canvas of T2+ rework. Just to say it is not pulled out of a hat by magic.
I'm not a coder, and I don't invent anything, I just rehash existing mechanic and enhance some part here and there so nothing in this canvas is impossible, and nothing really new. Let’s say it may look different, but it is the same. T1 rework is a proof of concept.

I would like to credit the Dev team, and especially Hargrim, CeGee and Washette who endure my hard requirements to make this possible. Thanks to you. I would like to thank the Team Leads who have agreed to follow me in this madness and give a try. I know that ORvR is the heart of war, and we are planning to make an open heart operation on this old beast.

Finally, I would like to thank all of the RoR players for your patience and your involvement in this project. I'm looking for something as perfect as possible. You deserve it. Some will argue this not War anymore. I'll answer, it is the concentrated essence of war, different from anything attempted before, but spiritually an advancement to be sure.

I not looking to convince those who have doubt just with words. We all have doubt and worries. Judge it in each piece, test it, push it limits when deployed and together make what ORvR should have been.

The rework is simple to understand, hard to catch in its totality. Easy to learn, challenging to master.
Keywords are: CHOICES-OPTIONS-ACTIONS-FLUIDITY
II. Introduction. Prerequisites to read this.
Spoiler:
Before starting to read this big wall of text (will try to add some graphic to help), try to forget what you know about ORvR, keep your mind open, and imagine consequences for you AND for the opposite faction.

This post will explain the ORvR mechanics. This post won't talk about rewards precisely cause it is another (very important I agree) subject. But I will explain what will be the future roll system will be like in few words.

Keep in mind this rework may take some time to be fully deployed, and that all parts are more or less linked, resulting at some steps of deployment with strange results.

Keep in mind, this is the project blueprint. Maybe some parts (or all parts!) may not solve/enhance anything. It is possible the final result will be a bit different, depending if it is possible, efficient or not, or any other reason.

An efficient playground is IMO more important as starting point than the rewards you can earn playing it. If you enjoy it because it is efficient and fluent, it will be a first reward.
III. Purpose of the rework.
Spoiler:
The goal of this rework is to lift actual RvR from all small issues we can experience in this general mechanic. The actual mechanic itself works fine, but some parts are ponderous and hard to manage, some other "force" the zerg because lack of objective in time (lock timers, lost keep, VP system...), respecting how they play and how they want to play. It is an attempt to give to each kind of player the possibility to find what he is looking for (solo, small team, warband, zerg), with benefits and drawbacks.

A simple example to illustrate: A WH or a WE can't really roam alone in the lake. No space for it, no real purpose. Same for small groups. Tanks during a siege have lost some interest. In general, classes specificity have lost their role in the ORvR campaign, it is time to fix this.
IV. NEW. How to lock a zone? (amended)
Spoiler:
We will abandon the VP system and replace it with an instant lock system. To lock a zone a faction will have 3 options:

a. Hold all keeps/Ruins + 3 objectives.
b. Reach rank 5 (not being a Ruin*) and hold all BOs.

c. Reach rank "6" ((not being a Ruin*) - rank 5 full resource gauge)

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WHY?
Depending on the situation you may experience, you will have to choose the best strategy to win.
All options have their benefits and drawbacks.
V. NEW. Battle Objectives (the tricky part)
a. How are they working?
Spoiler:
As in T1, Battle objectives will no longer be locked and guarded with NPCs. Players will have to cap it and hold it. To proceed, kill enemies around, stay, and wait the end of timer, and VOILA! The BO is yours. A single player can hold a BO but it may take some time. 6 players is the limit to accelerate the timer to hold it (if you are 7+, it won't accelerate any further).
- If no one is holding a BO, it becomes neutral.
- Holding a BO is rewarded in time with small ticks (INF-RP-XP).
- Holding a BO creates a portal in your warcamp to move faster troops (see "b. Teleport to BO." for details).
- Holding a BO generate resources, automatically added to the rank gauge.
For those who enjoyed the resource carrying system, don't be sad, you will find it in another iteration (see below "war treasure".
- Holding a BO or not will have an influence on your realm during a siege (see "BO modifiers and sieges).

WHY?
In opposition with the actual system, the purpose of this system is to provide options. You have 4+1 objectives who can be "deactivated" in time because of lock timers (4) and of keep taken (1). When 2 BOs are locked, the number of option fall to 2+1, "forcing" realms to focus on less objectives, mechanically making players concentrate their forces and blob. Biggest concentration point is when keep is taken, and all BO are locked: Warcamp siege. This new system will always provide 4 contestable objectives at any time AND these objectives will give some benefits for the realm who is holding it.
b. Teleport to BO.
Spoiler:
- Of course, don't expect to move a full Warband instantly. Consider you will only be able to teleport 1 player per tick (6 sec). So to move a full warband will take around 2 minutes.
- Teleporting will cost a small amount of resources to your realm so be aware of your resources.
- Do not worry much about players attempting to grief the system, as they will need to run back to the warcamp repeatedly, over which time the resources consumed will certainly have regenerated by then.

WHY?
Sometime, you can lose your teammates, or some strategic situations will "force" you to move fast in some place. This option (which will have a cost) gives you the opportunity to move faster for many reasons; reach a point on the map, reinforce defenses to a specific Battle Objective, join rest of your team, avoid a Warcamp siege...
Note the teleport limit is low in time for obvious reasons. It is not designed to teleport a full realm from a place to another.
c. BO modifiers and Sieges.
Spoiler:
You will have to hold BOs for many reasons. Most importantly, to rank up your keep. (see Ranking Up specifics), Second to assure the quality of equipment, and finally to lock the zone. Assuming you understand the first and the third part of it, let’s focus on the second part: Assure quality of equipment.

Consider a Battle Objective as a mine, or a farm, or any production unit. Holding one will assure you can feed your men (not linked with this mechanic because it is too punishing for outnumbered faction), to develop technologies (ranking up) and more important assure the quality of used materials for your keep and sieges tools (including lords).
You must hold at least 2 BO’s to maintain your siege weapons and keep defenses. If you hold less than 2 the quality will be mediocre, if you hold more, quality will be good or excellent. Depending on how many BO’s you hold, your ram, oil, ballista and so on will do more or less damage, doors will repair more or less (or not), and lord could be shitty or terrific.
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This maintenance will be dynamic and changes at each tick depending the number of BO’s you control. You can attack a Keep with all BO’s and... forget about them... leaving your enemy with a big advantage... or you can siege while keeping an eye on BO control and reduce his defenses to the minimum. What will you choose? :) What will they do? The battle will be affected not only by the forces pounding at the gates, but also by the skirmishes in control of the BO’s.

WHY?
The actual system is very partitioned. Currently when a siege starts, battle objectives become useless and none cares about it. 80% of you faction forces are focusing on keeps (remember what have said about reducing number of objectives earlier?). Now who controls the zone will rule the game. Once again, you will have to make choices, mostly strategic, depending your abilities and numbers. If you play chess you will understand what I’m talking about.
VI. NEW. Ranking Up; Why and how.
a. What is the interest to rank up?
Spoiler:
Currently you rank up to 1 star to avoid a destroyed postern, and you deploy a ram. The first realm sieging is generally the one who wins. Short story. Sad story. So what the point to Rank Up finally? Let’s give some interest to this and some new challenges for the realms.
You can rank up your realm from 0 to 5+. Each rank will provide you some unlocks and benefits. The higher you will rank up, the better your keep and siege tools will be (lord included). Explain all this rank per rank would be quite long, so see the board below; it will explain as simple as possible what each rank will provide.
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Of course, ranking up, enhances your equipment (HP and DMG)
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b. How to Rank Up?
Spoiler:
To rank up, you need to generate resources. You know at least one: BOs
As explained in the BO section, holding BO’s will fill rank gauge. Accordingly your faction will consume resources in the same time, thus you will have to hold more than a single BO. Furthermore, the distance between the held BO and keep/warcamp may have an impact on the quantity of resources. But there are some other ways to rank up. Many more.
- Tier I lock. Remember the gauge you had to fill before locking in T1? These are resources. On lock, a portion of these resources are sent to higher tier to complete. Lower tier will be involved in this big campaign. Depending we keep or not DOOMSDAY event, you can imagine how it will work with mid-tier and so on.
- War treasures. If you kill players in the lake, there is small chance to drop resources and you will have to carry them to your keep or warcamp (with the exact same rules you already know). The higher rank the target will be, the higher the chance to drop a resource chest will be.
- Guild involvement (more details below in guild section). Guilds currently are just... guilds. In this plan, they will be able to invest in the campaign, converting their money stored in the Guild bank into an amount of resources, with of course some benefits and paybacks in case of victory.
- Keep claiming (when working see guild section). This will boost resource production generated by BOs.
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As you can see, so many ways to rank up, but the most important will be the BO control.
VII. Keep, Siege & Equipment: NEW - The Ruin concept.
Spoiler:
You have seen some changes on keep siege/defense, related to Ranking Up (see Ranking Up section), but some little details are added.

To begin with, it is time to describe the keep. A keep is just another objective on the map. Harder to obtain, easier to hold, and a symbolic source of pride, but that's not the final purpose. It is another battle (not the least) inside a biggest war.

a. Doors
Spoiler:
- Defenders will be able to use the main Door if it has more than 50% HP. Under this, don't expect to use it to go in and out. The door will be too damaged to be used correctly (to return inside safely)
- A destroyed door must be replaced manually (using an item on it), then it will able to regenerate HP. This replacement will be possible ONLY if the keep is safe
- (To be confirmed) Defenders will be able to repair Door manually during siege, using specific items/abilities
- The door always auto-regen depending how many BO you control. If you haven't any BO, it will not regen.
- When a Keep is lost, doors stay destroyed for ever. Keep becomes a Ruin. (see below d. The Ruin concept.)
- The quality of a door depends of the realm rank. The higher your rank is, the stronger is the door.
b. Ram and Siege Weapons.
Spoiler:
- Equipment is bought and summoned at your Keep
- Their quality depends on your realm rank.
- Their damage / ammunition depends on the number of BO’s you control.
- You will be able to use ram and siege weapons around keeps, but not in open RvR. (note the word "siege")
- When your keep is lost, and only if it is lost, you will be able to buy and summon a ram and siege weapons at your warcamp. It means you will be able to attack enemy keep even if you have lost your keep.
c. The Lord.
Spoiler:
Depending your rank and the number of BO you Hold, the Lord and his specific abilities will be more or less powerful.
d. The Ruin concept.
Spoiler:
When a keep is lost, it become a Ruin. It means it is too destroyed to be repaired. Doors are destroyed, posterns are broken, Lord and NPC's are dead or retreated from the battlefield. Enemies have pillaged it and it is more a symbol than anything else. So, when lost, the keep will become a specific BO (in the courtyard or in the lord room TBD). This BO won't generate anything, no INF, no RP, no XP, no resource, nothing. But this BO can be captured. This capture timer will be longer than a classic BO (x3? TBD). If not held it becomes neutral like other BOs. If losers recap the Ruin, it stays a Ruin. The other faction has still the advantage to lock. Note there is no portal to this BO, as it is a dead place.


WHY?
When a keep is taken, the invading faction must fill their gauge of victory points to lock, and losers... lose. It is more or less a period where players are waiting, virtually filling their contribution but these situations rarely change. It is a waiting phase. The lock will be automatic when you will control all objectives in the lake, the winning side will have to secure all objectives and split + potentially defend their own keep. During this period, the "loser" faction is able to prepare a counter offensive and turn back the situation. This part of the game may be a bit tricky for players, but your realm involvement will be the key. Of course, there is a risk that this situation will take time, but at least it will be more exciting and involved than before. And remember, you will have 3 ways to lock.
VIII. -NEW- Guild involvement (when possible, if possible).
Spoiler:
You are probably in a guild and let’s be honest, it is a good way to play with people you know, but in the ORvR there is no real impact or interest. Now, your guild will take a more active part in the campaign, finance war, claiming keep and of course you may receive a return on investments made.
a. Finance War (if possible).
Spoiler:
Your guild will be able to pay (officer/leader TBD) to engage an amount of money in the campaign. This amount will :
- Give some resources to your realm to rank up.
- Give some buff or immunity to your guild-mates in the campaign (no heal debuff when dead for example, RP/INF micro buff, immunity to starvation, micro bonus in participation roll... TBD)
This action will be possible before your realm reaches rank 2. When rank 2, the opportunity to fund the war efforts will be closed. You must declare your investments early!
If your realm loses, you wont have any returns. BUT! If your faction wins, things will be a bit different. This system will be deployed from both sides, all money the losing guilds have invested will be shared between the winning guild.
b. Keep Claiming (if possible).
Spoiler:
Your guild can claim a Keep. This choice costs money. It can be done at any time during the campaign (on an active zone). Claiming a keep will :
- Grant immumty to your guild from BO modifiers
- Give some buff and immunity to your guild-mates (a. same as finance war)
- Put a "tax" on all kills in the area made by your faction (TBD)
- Increase BO values (XP/RP/INF/ranking up) for your faction.
- Give a bonus to your guildies in the lake for rolls on lock.
There wont be any payback if your faction wins, but you will gain something during all the periods of the campaign in the claimed zone.
IX. DOOMSDAY, MERGING & PAIRINGS.
a. Merging T2 to T4
Spoiler:
The DOOMSDAY event was an attempt to solve some issues of ORvR, and especially the mid tier and low NA pop issues. So far, it seems to work. Of course, we will probably have to tweak things a bit, but at least it works. Blob/zerg issues and reward issues are more related to the general mechanic than the tiers merging.
b. Multi-pairings campaign.
Spoiler:
The DOOMSDAY event is a test to respect the Warhammer concept : "War is everywhere!". We all want to see see war everywhere, but we don't want to dilute population on 3 battle zone unless the population can handle it. Doing this could cancel the merging benefits. A test will be done anyway to see how you manage multi pairings for some time. We are worried about PvDoor, Fight avoidance, but in the other hand, having 400 players in the same zone may be a problem as well.

So after testing, we plan to scale opened areas with active population. The more players involved in the T2+ campaign, the more zones will be opened.
X. - NEW - Roll System.
Spoiler:
I promised to talk about rewards. We all agree that sharing 10 bags more or less randomly for 200 players is unfair. That was the original system. Very frustrating to receive nothing at the end of a long battle.
We are working on something different for quite some time, and it will be deployed as soon as it is ready. The initial phase we will eb testing with fake loots in a first time in addition of actual reward system and when tweaked/enhanced, it will completely replace the existing roll system (for ORvR).
a. How will it work (roughly)?
Spoiler:
On lock, an average of all contribution will be done, giving a value. This value will represent 45% (for example) of your chance to gain a white bag. Now with a little rule of 3, we will be able to know what are your chances to acquire a green bag. Some % are added for a white bag, and some % are removed for blue, purple, and gold. When the roll is starting, it will begin with your chances to earn a gold bag (let say if you have 35% for a white bag, your green chance should be 35%, blue, 25%, purple 15%, gold 5%. Think you have understood the idea). You got a gold bag? hurrah lucky you! End of roll. You don't? let put some bonus in the pot for the next gold bag roll, and lets roll for a purple. And so on. Losing side will roll too, with an additional penalty of course.
So yes, there is still random aspects, but a personalized random. Number of bags won't be limited anymore.
It means basically :
- Roll will have a "personal", meaning, 100% of contributors can have a bag as often as 100% can have nothing.
- The more you will contribute, the higher your chance will be.
- The pot system guarantees that you will receive a gold, purple, blue, green, or white bag eventually. So casuals, you have your chances.
- Changing character/sides in the middle of the campaign will significantly lower your chances of winning anything.
b. Will I have a T2 bag in T2?
Spoiler:
No. This system is based on your own level. It means the content of the bag will be related to the character level (when received, don't bother letting it sit in your backpack to open it later, the items are assigned when it is rolled.
XI. Fortresses and Capitals.
Spoiler:
Nothing is planned at the moment for these 2 RvR parts, and nothing will be made public until the ORvR works perfectly. If all the rework is a success, we will finally have a strong base to move on and deploy something efficient.
And once again; if it is a fail, blame Yali. If it is a win, praise the team! :)

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Haojin
Posts: 1062

Re: ORvR rework+ DOOMSDAY : All the truth

Post#2 » Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:52 pm

All hail yali
Guildmaster of Phalanx

K8P - Karak Norn

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TenTonHammer
Posts: 3807

Re: ORvR rework+ DOOMSDAY : All the truth

Post#3 » Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:53 pm

So far I personally feel that the event has been a success; for the goal it had in mind, even more so once the bag changes are in
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User avatar
Reesh
Posts: 645

Re: ORvR rework+ DOOMSDAY : All the truth

Post#4 » Fri Sep 15, 2017 5:25 pm

It all looks really, really interesting.
So.. Seems like 2 weeks.

Btw, War treasures. Now not one, but three warbands at once will be chasing Teefz.
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navis
Posts: 783

Re: ORvR rework+ DOOMSDAY : All the truth

Post#5 » Fri Sep 15, 2017 5:37 pm

I was just going to question if more players at BO will increase the rate of points give. Nice to see that it will.
(after reading again, it seems that is only for the 'Cap' aspect and not the resources accruing?)

PS- I think you forgot to write "Inner Postern" on the Keep Rank diagram.
on this image;
Spoiler:
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edit (seen the explanation)
Last edited by navis on Sat Sep 16, 2017 4:33 pm, edited 9 times in total.
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User avatar
Glorian
Posts: 4980

Re: ORvR rework+ DOOMSDAY : All the truth

Post#6 » Fri Sep 15, 2017 5:37 pm

Well lads, you have here roadmap, with history, present and future stuff. All in one big information block.

Happy reading. :D

Shooshpanzerer
Posts: 91

Re: ORvR rework+ DOOMSDAY : All the truth

Post#7 » Fri Sep 15, 2017 5:48 pm

Do i understand a new system correctly?
1)if a realm has enough zerg to hold 3 BO's (Hello TM) at any given time, you'll lock eventually.
2)Underdog (keep lost) can only lock if all objectives are taken.
3)Keep defence is pointless as you simply run to BO's and outheal all damage.
4) A lock with decent opposition will requre a lot of realm coordination.

User avatar
Pumatouch
Posts: 180

Re: ORvR rework+ DOOMSDAY : All the truth

Post#8 » Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:20 pm

Yali for friggin President! Balls to the walls cabinet of ministers round here!

One thing springs to mind though; if BO portals will cost resources, and a tactic of overwhelming resources have clearly been chosen by one side, what is to stop a saboteur of logging that side and wasting away resources on transportation?
Arthur - Slarti - Halgal - Binwin
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Each and every Dawi under my command owes me one hundred scalps.
And I want my scalps.

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wargrimnir
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Re: ORvR rework+ DOOMSDAY : All the truth

Post#9 » Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:29 pm

There are pretty significant resources being hoarded on live currently, doesn't seem like it would be an issue. They would need to get back to the warcamp to waste the meager amount of resources used. One person intentionally griefing would hardly make a dent provided BO control is shuffling around as it does currently.
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[email protected] for exploits and cheaters.
grimnir.me Some old WAR blog

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Wam
Posts: 803

Re: ORvR rework+ DOOMSDAY : All the truth

Post#10 » Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:32 pm

That's alot of text, so is this doomsday event now a permenent thing or we only have so much time left testing the event?
Even with all your information it's hard to know what direction the game is going in, because of massive Orvr mechanic and class balance changes at the same time.
Spoiler:
I personally don't understand why people have alot of issues with the old system, and I see this new system more problematic in regards to BO/Supplies/potential Fight Avoidance but time will tell on that one.

Doomsday event, as helped boost population to reduce dead/ghost zones... as time goes on and if its permenent maybe that novelty will ware off and population starts to dip again last night was first case of dead zone in dragonwake during EU primetime.

It's produced some very zergy gameplay because of population boost... I know this is a player mentality issue and you're looking at ways to try spread gameplay but... is this new system created for 6 man or warband scale? Because some people will still run around as a blob of multiple warbands regardless of what you do... and then other side will need counter blobs. My guild WB has had many people follow it without promoting to be followed... I understand why people follow just if that mentality on both sides (which it no doubt will) still exists in a spread system I think will be very problematic...

As a warband we play together, fight and die together I can't leave people behind on bo's... and i don't think many people will find it too much fun to sit on bo's personally... like the scout reporting leaves alot to be desired at times even pre change so im not sure scout reports will drastically improve.

I think so far during this event our raid as been in t2 empire and t3 empire once each... usually t4 same old maps in primetime... but that's just the way it lands :)

"You are probably in a guild and lets be honnest, it is a good way to play with ppl you know, but in the ORvR there is no real impact or interest. Now, your guild will take a more active part in the campain, finance war, claiming keep and ofc may expect return on investment."

I don't see why a guild in a pvp centric game shouldn't already be motivated to take part in campaign... no matter big or small scale.

I. Fortresses and Capitals.
Spoiler: Hide
Nothing is planned atm for these 2 RvR part, and nothing will be until the ORvR works perfectly. If all te rework is a succes, we will finally have a strong bas to move on and deploy something efficient.

This is your big carrot... also dungeons is your other carrot for long term growth. I don't think you will need events for population boost if you manage to succesfully impelement either or both of these. (more things people can do together as a group/guild) Also with dynamic campaign you might bring back some partial realm pride and less x realming.

Another of my concerns if orvr mechanics are tweaked so much it no longer resembles ROR i've played to date and how rest of community reacts to it (population swings = lack of fights = lack of fun) but I am willing to give everything a fair chance without too much kneejerk reactions :)
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