Balance Discussion Forum v3

[wonshot]

BW better then sorc's this has came from high end player playing both
Slay better then the chopper, yet again coming from high end players playing both
Eng better them the Magus , same as above
Knight better then the chosen, same as above
IB better then the BG, same as above
WP better then the Dok same as above
and so on and so on.

While some of the classes might be supperior when compared 1to1 you really need to look at the bigger picture if you actually want to compare realm balance.

Yes BW is better than Sorc at AoEing while the Sorc have an advantage for singletarget. Isolated seen, yes this is imballanced. But when you add in the factors like "displacement" (zealot punts, choppa pulls etc) it stars evening out a little bit since a BW-death ball can only function when stacked.

You then complain nothing was done to help even out the scale, for the very handpicked list of examples you bring above. But why did Destro get a M2 moral bomb copy, when they already have advantage in the "moral minigame"

And before someone thinks this is the perfect point to mention Kotbs M4 Solar flare, yeah it is amazingly strong. But Guess what..
One single moraldrain tick from a maraduer will make the moralbar for the knight go from 4.0 to 3.9 and he cant use it. The amount of classes Maruder directly counter on Order is mindblowing. Just because Destro as a whole is not using it, doesnt mean it is not available and a tool to use.

Same goes for Order getting aoe armor debuff on dps runepriest, noone organized is running it right now so you dont see Shattered limbs slayer warbands rolling over everything (Dwarf roleplayers, hello?)

All of these 1on1 isolated comparisons are really killing any debate of class balance, if we had some sort of ranking or scoreboard with each class and the available tools it brings for largescale, we could start running down class by class and look at what is OP and what is missing for each realm. Because believe it or not ,but despite coming off as Order biased I would very much like for both realms to have as much warband availability so we could see more players/classes getting into organized 2-2-2 setup warbands.

[Glorian]

Dwarf Roleplayers couldn't get 24 Dwarfs together that want to run a melee Warband with restricted builds. I blame Volgo for putting into every IB to run 2hander these days. Runi AoE Armor Debuff + Slayers is strong though. But you need 7-8 Slayers to build a critical mass. Like on BW.
Getting 2 FG of Dwarfs was no problem. Getting stomped by FMJ+PnP at the same time wasn't exactly fun. So we get back to shoot people and laugh at them tripping over landmines.
Next life I stick to TUPs recruitment requirements + dwarf only + lore friendly name.
Or simply make an Empire only Guild. Full Meta with 3 classes.

[Alfonez]

oof bulgy got bulged tf outta!

[Abe]

Oneshot said "Yes BW is better than Sorc at AoEing while the Sorc have an advantage for singletarget." I only want to ask with the current state of the game which is primarily a zergfest which character is significantly more effective in WB's, single target or a very good AOE. help me here

[peterthepan3]

Oneshot said "Yes BW is better than Sorc at AoEing while the Sorc have an advantage for singletarget." I only want to ask with the current state of the game which is primarily a zergfest which character is significantly more effective in WB's, single target or a very good AOE. help me here

It's almost as if ST were designed for smaller encounters (SC/6v6/12v12/Dungeons), while AoE is meant for said zergfests...

[Abe]

Peter, with the state of the game right now, with possible exception of SC's, it is all about zerging. So ......... and PVE really

[xanderous]

Can't wait to see next WL buff.

[Hargrim]

Can't wait to see next WL buff.

Me too.

[wargrimnir]

Can't wait to see next WL buff.

I would prefer them declawed or neutered first.

Front loaded burst is our main concern with WL. Expect a discussion about that in the near future.

[uanaka]

Just throwing in my $0.02 as well.

I'm hopeful about the chances BDF can bring about, the current balance forums seems to overlooked most of the time. I'm sure the proposals are read, but it's hard to know as a player whether or not these proposals are even acknowledged and considered. I recognize it's a ton of a work to consider each and every single post, but just a simple acknowledgement is good enough for me. I have read through plenty of proposals, even for classes I don't play, and many of them, I believe, are well written and not asking for drastic changes, but it appears many of them are left in the dust. I'm sure there are discussions in the background, but I guess I just want to stress more transparent communication and acknowledgement, not necessarily acceptance.

Regarding general balance, it's fair to not always balance top down, and middle upwards is fair, but I would like to know what is the intended meta that you guys are hoping to transition towards? You mention balancing towards a more average player, I just hope that what you consider the average player isn't the player that plays a few hours a week and is utterly frustrated by everything seemingly "OP" because they don't have the time to learn about different classes, tactics, and counters.

I'm not a big fan of the in-game polls, sure it reaches a broader player base, but how much of that player base is actually informed enough to provide solid feedback and opinions? For the players that didn't care, they could do something as simple as checking down all the boxes randomly and moving on with their lives. Is it important to have a general straw poll? Sure, but there has to be a good compromise between utilizing key feed back from forums and the in-game poll.