Changelog 18/11/16

[BrockRiefenstahl]

Decrease RF drain in Righteousness to 2-3 as depleting value and add also this depleting for Devotion... They want to be "meleeheal" (or save their ass with meleeheal) so they should get punished from standing in Ranged lines and only jump on a target when they feel save/have a guard bot. The whole 5 Minute CD makes your whole concept become obsolete...
tweaking numbers not kill the concept is what I would like to see.

Either insert RF depleting for Devotion or something like a 50% AAspeed + 1-2 RF depleting every second to lower its damage output.
This all does also stand for DoK's Vitality and Celerity mirror.

Edit: To all outcalled counterplay I want to add, I have a really hard time against Shamans and Squigherders...

[daniilpb]

So if CoC and PoR is designed to be a pure dps stance maybe try this:

Melee heals while in Covenant of Celerity/Prayer of Righteoughness stance are receptible for both incomming and outgoin heal debuffs, While Melee heals in Covenant of Vitallity/Prayer of Devotion are not.

I like this suggestion since the main problem for me is an amount of healing in dps stances. I repeat and repeat: if you want to dps you should only dps - you want to heal you should only heal.
The old mechanics which provided more dmg = more healing is toxic imo and should be reworked if we want doks and wps as MELEE HEALERS, not dpsers with healing abilities. I think devs wanted to make something like this.
As always just my 2 cents

[kryss]

So if CoC and PoR is designed to be a pure dps stance maybe try this:

Melee heals while in Covenant of Celerity/Prayer of Righteoughness stance are receptible for both incomming and outgoin heal debuffs, While Melee heals in Covenant of Vitallity/Prayer of Devotion are not.

I like this suggestion since the main problem for me is an amount of healing in dps stances. I repeat and repeat: if you want to dps you should only dps - you want to heal you should only heal.
The old mechanics which provided more dmg = more healing is toxic imo and should be reworked.
As always just my 2 cents

Very sensible ideas here, hope devs will at least test them internally

[Sigimund]

Firstly, I think it is a good point that players seeing a WP/DoK do good damage and later have good survivability then leads to the assumption that all WPs/DoKs have both of these advantages at all times. We've got some really unreliable witnesses here.

In change management (in the organisational sense rather than the software development sense) you are taught to drip feed changes to your employees to avoid shocks to the system which lead to panic, resistance and active sabotage. We saw with 2H AOE detaunt that this was not going to work. Only a combination of powerful changes would pull melee-range healing out of the mud. There is now panic, resistance and active sabotage. I am hoping this will be allowed to simmer down before the real tuning takes place.

I'm not getting high damage in Devo and it sounds like Sweet isn't either. I can eventually wear down a tank or mdps but I could do that before if I wasn't blocked to death. The only thing that changed on this front is that it is now safer but takes longer due to half damage lifetaps. I'm not aiming for damage in my Grace stance though. If people are and it is working and if the problem is high DPS with Devo survivability then maybe look at the following:

• The proc meta, again - Not sure what the solution is but nerfing WPs/DoKs in melee healing stance treats the symptom not the cause and endangers a playstyle that you only just got working.
• Haste procs from crits - Maybe make lifetaps unable to crit in Grace stance. Maybe make all damaging strikes unable to crit in this stance. Consider finding some way to make crit remain useful to melee healers because it's gobbling up item budget on our gear.
• Divine Fury/Fanaticism - If these are pushing up damage too much while in melee healing stance then have their healing penalty apply to lifetaps. This could even be considered as a way to isolate Wrath and Grace without a long cooldown as DPS builds would still have the ability to switch stance for survivability (like a skilled Marauder) or to recoup RF but would not turn into prime healers when they did so.

Note: I am sympathetic to classes with outgoing heal debuffs as these are currently less useful than incoming heal debuffs but a) operating 5ft from the enemy melee train is still risky enough that I do not believe that we *also* need to suffer all the ranged healing counters and b) the importance of heal debuffs is a meta that I think is worth undermining a little and creates a potential niche for lifetap healers of any class.

Edit: There were a lot more people testing these changes than the community realises. One of the GMs has already pointed out that nobody reported any WP/DoK for unexplained behaviour or hacking. Nobody noticed a thing. I think people are reacting to patch notes and theorycraft, not the game on their screens.

[aemi]

Overall I like the changes, the 5min cd on celerity seems exessive though. The biggest problem I see are the unstoppable heals. For MDPS especially dok/wp are unkillable and I understand their concern, however what most people don't seem to get how susceptible dok/wp are to: RDPS, kiting and CC.

A suggestion for vitality: You'd get strikethrough based on soul essence, by what amount can definately be debated but just for example: 250 essence = 50% strikethrough, 200 = 40%; 150= 30%; 100 = 20%; 50 = 10%; 0 = 0%. This would mean that you have to manage essence better to keep healing reliably, perhaps even sacrificing a tactic slot. Maybe the cost for TE and RS needs to be adjusted as well?
Strkethrough = against parry/block

Adrok RR55 DOK

[BrockRiefenstahl]

So if CoC and PoR is designed to be a pure dps stance maybe try this:

Melee heals while in Covenant of Celerity/Prayer of Righteoughness stance are receptible for both incomming and outgoin heal debuffs, While Melee heals in Covenant of Vitallity/Prayer of Devotion are not.

I like this suggestion since the main problem for me is an amount of healing in dps stances. I repeat and repeat: if you want to dps you should only dps - you want to heal you should only heal.
The old mechanics which provided more dmg = more healing is toxic imo and should be reworked if we want doks and wps as MELEE HEALERS, not dpsers with healing abilities. I think devs wanted to make something like this.
As always just my 2 cents

Woot?? You have Problems with the new Dps Prayer/Covenant HEALs? Seems we play a different game. If you Try to HEAL you end up doing 40%less dmg and in the next step you are AP + RF starved lol...

[Daknallbomb]

Can some one explain me what all mean with unstoppable heals? I rly dont understand it

[BrockRiefenstahl]

Can some one explain me what all mean with unstoppable heals? I rly dont understand it

They meant undefendable Divine Assault + Rend Soul abilities (only in meleehealer stance). Its not defendable therefore it also heals on Tanks with block/parry pretty reliable.

But anyway people cry also because turtling with a tank that guards and spamm Transfer Essense / Sigmars Radiance while being pretty tanky.

Anyway the changes done now are overkill.

[BrockRiefenstahl]

2) Damage in mHeal mode is too high - in which case there are two possible solutions again:

No damage debuff on any skills, but Soul Willpower I reduces the damage you deal as it stacks up
Lower damage in that prayer

Azarael posted something that seems really good.

If you make it like that: A Buff/Debuff that reduces dmg but not the healing.

Or make it duration based: The longer in Stance (Devotion/Vitality) The less damage but more heal. So a Buff+Debuff in one.

[Daknallbomb]

Can some one explain me what all mean with unstoppable heals? I rly dont understand it

They meant undefendable Divine Assault + Rend Soul abilities (only in meleehealer stance). Its not defendable therefore it also heals on Tanks with block/parry pretty reliable.

But anyway people cry also because turtling with a tank that guards and spamm Transfer Essense / Sigmars Radiance while being pretty tanky.

Anyway the changes done now are overkill.

Hmm But its Just undefeatable... In the First second more than 8 counters to that comes in my mind. Still dont understand what is wrong